[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by andafunda

Could be one of those cabbies (with multiple drivers) who operates under personal number plates. I know of two from North India who do this. Not sure why one would do so, though.

Possible. The white board run as taxis is prevalent in south as well. I have hired many taxis in TN, KA and they turned out to be White board.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Possible. The white board run as taxis is prevalent in south as well. I have hired many taxis in TN, KA and they turned out to be White board.

Many hotel owned cabs are run as white boards registered under the hotel owner's name.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by hserus

Many hotel owned cabs are run as white boards registered under the hotel owner's name.

Could be. However, when I interacted with the driver, he usually mentioned that it is his own vehicle or sent by the owner.

Most of these vehicles i got were rickety and poorly maintained.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Could be. However, when I interacted with the driver, he usually mentioned that it is his own vehicle or sent by the owner.

Most of these vehicles i got were rickety and poorly maintained.

The last such vehicle I got was a cab belonging to a hotel in Chittorgarh, which picked me up from Udaipur airport early this year. Quite a new Etios (several months old and 80k ++ run), of course with a driver that didn't believe in seat belts and drove like a maniac.

[Cessna182]

If possible, it would be great if there can be a technical interview or article on TeamBhp by someone who knows the Toyota engineering process and why they are so long lasting. It need not reveal the confidential information. It can just be about the material science and engineering involved in making a Toyota what it is. It would be a great addition to TeamBhp for the technically inclined readers and contributors.

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by Cessna182

If possible, it would be great if there can be a technical interview or article on TeamBhp by someone who knows the Toyota engineering process and why they are so long lasting. It can just be about the material science and engineering involved in making a Toyota what it is.

Does this catch your fancy? -

https://youtu.be/8zgYh04a0OM

A lot of it has to do with the Japanese philosophy towards perfecting their products incrementally with proven technology and using excellent engineering. It may be conservative, but boy are they reliable! Also, the amount of planned obsolescence is much lower in Japanese cars as compared to other car manufacturers.

[abhi9044]

No doubts that Toyota always over-engineer their engines. This particular engine was developed in an era when reliability was one of the top priority of the engineers rather than fuel consumption and emissions.
There are multiple other examples of Toyota's over-engineered engines, such as
2JZ, 1ZZ, 4AGE, 7AGE, 1UZ, etc. These engines were designed while keeping each and every aspect of engineering in mind. In fact I was blown away when I came to know that on the 2JZ block, they actually thickened up the top portion of the cylinder walls because the combustion takes place there and so as to make it a little stronger. That's not something you get to see everyday.

Although with modern times, where the manufacturers have shifted to using Aluminium as their choice for engine materials, and with tighter emissions and fuel consumptions,I think the life expectancy of these engines might take a hit. I do agree that we as of now have much better manufacturing process and thus engines can be designed with tighter tolerances and can be reliable as well, but that is something only time will tell.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by abhi9044

No doubts that Toyota always over-engineer their engines.

I'm not sure I or many others share your understanding of the term "over-engineer". It is my understanding that over-engineering is typically indulged in by the German OEMs and in doing so they render their cars unreliable in the long run. Toyota is rather for keeping it simple and doing the opposite of over-engineering.

Toyota simply engineers their cars well and maintains total quality.

What would be an example of over-engineering?

I don't have a ready example of one right now - but hypothetically - let us say that where a Toyota would mechanically solve an automotive need, a BMW would over-engineer the same by throwing in a hydrophobic sensor that also monitors the mechanical part that Toyota is happy with. In the long run, the simple Toyota solution will last a lifetime while the over-engineered BMW solution would show up with a "check engine" light because the said sensor failed when you drove over a puddle at speed.

I'm open to be corrected. But I'd rather disagree when you say Toyota over-engineers their cars. It's anything but that if you ask me.

[WhiteSierra]

Originally Posted by locusjag

I'm open to be corrected. But I'd rather disagree when you say Toyota over-engineers their cars. It's anything but that if you ask me.

In his opinion, over engineering means Engineered to last long. Say, providing durable material and quality product better than industry standard.

I heard this term over engineering from a famous YouTuber / Professional car mechanic called Car Wizard on YouTube when he was working on a Rolls Royce belonging to Tyler from Hoovie's Garage, another YouTuber.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by WhiteSierra

In his opinion, over engineering means Engineered to last long. Say, providing durable material and quality product better than industry standard.

I heard this term over engineering from a famous YouTuber / Professional car mechanic called Car Wizard on YouTube when he was working on a Rolls Royce belonging to Tyler from Hoovie's Garage, another YouTuber.

Well, there's entirely a different school of thought on what over-engineering means and it is synonymous with German cars and is not associated with Japanese cars. Here's a random Google search result to submit my case:
https://motorhills.com/are-german-cars-over-engineered/

Excerpts:

I’ve often wondered why German cars are over-engineered. Why can’t they just do things that work and make it easier for someone to do their own car repairs without the need for special scan tools, repair tools and always require to re-code replacement parts?

The reason why car brands like BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, VW are seemingly over-engineered is that they are always pushing the envelope in terms of innovation. Whether it’s the design, function (body, interior, engine) or other features regarding safety and convenience, these car brands are at the forefront of pioneering new ideas.

Cons

* Components can and will fail prematurely
*Replacing said components can be a pain the way they’re integrated and oftentimes require additional coding
* Sensors, sensors, sensors. There’s tons of them and yes top tier models like the Mercedes-Benz S-Class and BMW 7-series will have enough of them failing to make you want to give up on repairs altogether

Popular pro-Toyota YouTuber and mechanic Scotty Kilmer has also gone on record saying that German cars are unreliable because they are overengineered.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by locusjag

Well, there's entirely a different school of thought on what over-engineering means and it is synonymous with German cars and is not associated with Japanese cars..

Maybe over engineering has a different meaning in different schools of thought. But in case of Toyota, it would mean designing components that can do far more than they would be finally used to. For example, extracting a modest 150Bhp out of a 2.4L engine of the Innova whereas competitors especially the Germans extract much more from a smaller engine. Similarly, extracting 100 horses out of the earlier 2.5L KD engine. In electronics I had studied about derating a component to perform at a fraction of its intended capacity, which contributes in extending its life. Similarly, I believe this happens for the Toyota. For an MPV like the Innova, they still stick to a ladder frame chassis with RWD compared to going for a monocoque structure which will save them some weight, gain better efficiency and give them an option to optimize the cabin space better. The ladder frame chassis is tough and one look at the suspension underpinnings will tell that they are built tough and will last a lifetime.

For the Germans, over-engineered means using more tech than required and trying to get the best out of every single part of the car

[rajneeesh]

While modern Diesel engines are designed to last a long time, our judiciary is hell bent on playing the party-pooper. In Delhi NCR Diesel powered vehicles can be registered only for 10 years. This is a big disincentive in investing big money in these vehicles only to sell them off at rock bottom prices when they are 8-9 years old.

The Judiciary should not get overtly swayed by any lobby (environmentalists or the industry) but take a balanced view.

A lot of my mates who own perfectly well maintained Safaris are having to let go off their beloved steeds due to this stupid law.Toyota is one of the effected parties and I will be with them on this issue.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by abhi9044

No doubts that Toyota always over-engineer their engines.

I am not sure if I can call it over engineering but engineering to be fit for a purpose depending on the product you purchase. And that extends to many other products made by the Japanese including watches and, in the past, even electronics. How many of us still use Japanese watches and even TVs bought 10, 15 or even 20 years back. I know I do. The Japs in my view follow the build it well and build it to last principle therefore offering value for money over the long run. Yes, a little expensive to buy but it'll last you a long time. Which is strangely what European products as diverse as cars, watches, even industrial machinery offered when I was growing up in the 1970s and 1980s but I guess not any more. Can you imagine today's M-B, BMW with their crazy levels of electronics and gadgetry running 30-35 years from now? No way! They are not built to last but built to offer superlative performance and/or comfort for x number of years after which you trade them in for a newer model.

[abhi9044]

Originally Posted by locusjag

I'm not sure I or many others share your understanding of the term "over-engineer".

I would like to clear out the confusion. What Bhpian WhiteSierra has explained, is exactly what I meant by the term 'Over Engineered'.

Originally Posted by audioholic

For example, extracting a modest 150Bhp out of a 2.4L engine of the Innova whereas competitors especially the Germans extract much more from a smaller engine. Similarly, extracting 100 horses out of the earlier 2.5L KD engine. In electronics I had studied about derating a component to perform at a fraction of its intended capacity, which contributes in extending its life. Similarly, I believe this happens for the Toyota.

For the Germans, over-engineered means using more tech than required and trying to get the best out of every single part of the car

I agree with you. Most of the Japanese engines are built that way. When Japanese design their engines, they don't think from an engineer's perspective, but rather from an owner's perspective. Various factors such as stretched oil changes duration, choked air filter, adulterated fuel, etc are taken into account when Japanese design their engines. For Germans, it's more like 'We have designed the car to be driven like this, if you go too far from that limit, it's not our responsibility. It wasn't designed to handle abuse like that' (No offence to german car owners).

Originally Posted by R2D2

And that extends to many other products made by the Japanese including watches and, in the past, even electronics. How many of us still use Japanese watches and even TVs bought 10, 15 or even 20 years back. I know I do. The Japs in my view follow the build it well and build it to last principle therefore offering value for money over the long run. Yes, a little expensive to buy but it'll last you a long time.

I know I might be getting a bit off topic here, but here's what Steve Jobs had said when he was questioned about 'quality'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kib6...l=DawnLindsley

[Ironhide]

Talking of longevity of engines, here's a post of mine from 2015 wherein I had met a taxi driver who drove the humble Tata Indigo Dicor for a living. He had crossed 2.5L km in his humble Indigo, without the car ever having given him any trouble. Here's what I wrote in 2015 (Tata Authorised Service Center - Narain Singh & Sons (Jahangirpuri, New Delhi). EDIT: Now closed!)

While at the Service Centre, I met the owner/driver of an Indigo CS cab. The man was working for Uber and was quite happy with them, especially the remunerations. I was amazed at the way he had maintained his car ... it was gleaming, without a scratch ( a rare sight in Delhi these days) and had clean, well-appointed interiors with spotless white terry fabric seat covers and foot mats without a speck of dust on them. What amazed me, even more, was the fact that his car had crossed 2.5L km (that's what he claimed) and was soon closing on 3 L km! He said that he had had no trouble whatsoever with the engine and the car performed flawlessly! He said that he always got the car serviced at authorised service centres at the appointed intervals and had had a long association with Narain Singh and Sons. He claimed that throughout the ownership period, which was close to five years, the car had never given him any trouble whatsoever! This, kind of reaffirmed my faith in Tata!

When I asked Vijay, the Head Mechanic at Narain Singh and Sons about this driver nearly two and a half years later, I was told that the car had crossed the 5L mark without any niggles or any engine related work and was still going strong. The takeaway was that the newer engines of most carmakers are well-engineered and shall go the distance given regular, timely maintenance is carried out.