[VijayAnand1]

Own fame caused its defamation is what come to my mind here. Especially, the KL Cops being extremely vocal about modifications, case in point, the clampdown spree on bullets and other "laoud" exhaust vehicles, this doesn't come as a surprise.

I feel bad for the owner and the jealous brats that are purely there to ruin someone's happiness.

Good luck to the owner.

May the force be with him.

Cheers!
VJ

[Kosfactor]

Any idea as to what all are the categories in which this fine is being levied?

Yes visually its modified but what all rules is it violating?

The poor old Jeep parked next to it will perform better on an offroad trail though.

[ash22]

In addition to this thread, Attaching few nicely moded cars from 'Mods Own country'
PS- Just for a visual treat and not to start a debate.

[NDK286]

Perhaps this will lead to an increase in sleepers. I've always felt that most "mods" are purely visual (and sometimes hideous). I would love to see most mods happening under the hood (so police cant spot it). Although loud exhausts may be a giveaway.

Also, to the experts, does the law limit modifying cars which are then used on public roads ? or modifying cars regardless of usage ?

[avishar]

Originally Posted by ash22

In addition to this thread, Attaching few nicely moded cars from 'Mods Own country'

This is "Nicely"? Other than the GTI and Camry they look horrendous. No wonder people snitch to the MVD.

[Shan_Kmu]

This truck is sitting much higher from the ground. Seen many jeeps(recent flood rescue vehicles from kerala) are lifted slightly but not this much.

It's not like that this vehicle has involved in flood rescue, so we need to support it whatever happens.

Worst case scenario - What if this truck met head on collision with a low hatchback or sedan ? Clearly it will climb over and crushes the other car it seems.

Mods are welcome, but stick within some limit

[NiInJa]

Kerala is mod's own country. I like how they modify cars, some are absolutely drool worthy. Instead of indirectly imposing that one should not modify cars, I feel there should be some guidelines and certifications in place to have modifications carried out so that such vehicles are used for their intended purposes only. That way, both parties would be happy: Customers and MVD

[Stribog]

Originally Posted by avishar

This is "Nicely"? Other than the GTI and Camry they look horrendous. No wonder people snitch to the MVD.

Lol, on a lighter note, my feelings exactly (no offense to OP though, taste is subjective), I found the majority of these so hideous that I wouldn't drive them even for a quick spin.

[samyakmodi]

I might be a bit off here - but all those people who are supporting the owner of this particular car, have you considered the basic road safety with this car plying on the roads?
Any idea what it will do to others on the road if this meets with an accident?

I am all for purpose built modifications, but risking people on the roads is something I really can not come to terms with. Yes, one might argue about the state buses and what not, but it doesn't mean that more vehicles should be added as potential hazard to the common man.

[alikidwhy]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Buddy, since you're such a stickler for the law, please go to a bunch of threads started by DBHPians and moderators about the mods on their vehicles, and report them for being illegal. I'm saying this, because in case you didn't know, all mods deviating from the RC book are illegal, whether it is upsized tyres, or remaps changing the power output, or repainting in a different colour. Maybe you haven't gone through the forum in detail, but there are instances of these being carried out safely and tastefully by even the founders of this forum. Does that mean those OPs, and this forum, are bad?

Listen here, buddy. Laws of the land are to be adhered to whether or not you like them. It’s as simple as that.

If the cops don’t fine this guy, motivation provided by you on a public forum, as big as this is going to motivate thousands to illegally mod their cars and turn them into death machines. There’s already an abundance of idiots behind wheels who don’t know how to drive and endanger themselves as well as others.

As far as remapping and upsize goes, you don’t really turn your car into a mammoth on the road when you do those, do you?

And as for letting you know, I have read this forum in quite detail over years. You’re not the only BHPian on this forum who has been through various threads or spent hours here.

I am all for modded cars (taste is subjective) but I am not one for cars that endanger the lives of others and I say you think before promoting this on a forum.

[aniketi]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I am surprised the car / owner getting so much support for such a weirdly & extensively modified vehicle. Can any of these supportive bhp'ians tell us whats the extend of damage this vehicle can cause to others if it involves in an accident?

I am really worried for two wheeler's and people walking on roads. With this car it will be really difficult to see those in narrow Indian roads. Their safety is really in danger when such vehicle comes on the road. I can imagine how much two wheeler people will get scared when they see such monster on the road near them. Visibility will be really low to drive this car on Indian roads, i can see very high risk.

[GT145]

It's interesting to see the different opinions in this thread.

Sharing couple of my thoughts here, this particular V-Cross build is above any modification limits any MVD can allow, and it's not safe to take this to public roads in my opinion. If you are using it inside your 10 or 100 acre farm then I would say it's perfectly fine, but that's not the case here, the owner takes it out to the public roads.

I feel Kerala MVD in general are lenient towards minor modifications. They don't bother you much if you put 205 section tyres instead of 195 or changing suspension or if you have a stock replacement bumper kit. But if you have wider tyres which comes out of the body line, tinted glass, fancy lighting or a loud exhaust setup then you will have tough times.

Coming to modification, currently our govt allows vehicles which are approved in another country to be sold without homologation in India. In my opinion our law should allow something similar for aftermarket automotive products, if a product is legally allowed in another part of the world then let the vehicle owner fit it, go to RTO pay some charges for the modifications he did and add it your RC book. Or introduce some system in our country to approve such changes and products within our country. It may not make sense to many, but just a thought.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by avishar

This is "Nicely"? Other than the GTI and Camry they look horrendous. No wonder people snitch to the MVD.

Hahahaha! But in all seriousness, taste is not an arbiter of justice. Justice is, in fact, non-arbitrary.

Originally Posted by Shan_Kmu

It's not like that this vehicle has involved in flood rescue, so we need to support it whatever happens.

The law is very clear - all mods are illegal. Whether you are raise 1 cm or 10 ft, it's illegal. So if you think this is illegal and deserves punishment, so do all others. Whether, or not, they were involved in flood rescue makes no difference. Tax evaders pay the penalty, regardless of how much they donate to charity.

Originally Posted by Shan_Kmu

Worst case scenario - What if this truck met head on collision with a low hatchback or sedan ? Clearly it will climb over and crushes the other car it seems.

Same thing that happens when a truck or bus hits a low hatchback or sedan.

Originally Posted by Shan_Kmu

Mods are welcome, but stick within some limit

And who decides those limits? MVA and SC do not specify limits, only that all mods are illegal.

Originally Posted by samyakmodi

I might be a bit off here - but all those people who are supporting the owner of this particular car, have you considered the basic road safety with this car plying on the roads?
Any idea what it will do to others on the road if this meets with an accident?

I am all for purpose built modifications, but risking people on the roads is something I really can not come to terms with. Yes, one might argue about the state buses and what not, but it doesn't mean that more vehicles should be added as potential hazard to the common man.

The point I and some others have been trying to make is that all mods are illegal. Before you choose to point fingers at one specific guy (admittedly with bad attitude), are you willing to point fingers at everyone else who mods their cars? Rash driving is a menace, for sure, and if he's indulging in that he should be arrested. But these mods by themselves do not signify that the car is a danger, any more than an overloaded STC bus with dodgy brakes.

Originally Posted by alikidwhy

Listen here, buddy. Laws of the land are to be adhered to whether or not you like them. It’s as simple as that.
...
And as for letting you know, I have read this forum in quite detail over years. You’re not the only BHPian on this forum who has been through various threads or spent hours here.

Ah, the joys of youth. I'll be nice, because I was once a righteous youth on this board, and people were nice and indulged me . Like you said, I'm not the only one who's read this forum in detail. But over the last fifteen odd years on this forum and in real life, I've understood the difference between cause and effect in the automotive sphere. It does help that I was an automotive professional both in India and in developed markets. My original question stands - are you just as opposed to Khan's (and later Jaggu's) Spidey SPoA? Take a look at that front bumper and tell me what would happen in a head on collision with that. In fact, can you guarantee that this guy did not get 'inspired' by that beast? In which case, your own argument means our moderators are guilty - I hope not, because I know they're nice guys.

Originally Posted by alikidwhy

If the cops don’t fine this guy, motivation provided by you on a public forum, as big as this is going to motivate thousands to illegally mod their cars and turn them into death machines. There’s already an abundance of idiots behind wheels who don’t know how to drive and endanger themselves as well as others.

Modding a car is not going 'motivate thousands to illegally mod' in any way. Thousands cannot afford to spend 10+ lakhs on mods on a car, and idiots drive regular cars and kill people. This argument is often used to castigate 'celebrities' - SRK plugs Pepsi and it's bad for you, SRK is a bad influence and guilty. Legally, it doesn't work. If you have the wherewithal to buy a car and mod it, it's your own outlook and you can't blame anyone else for it. Otherwise every drug death would be blamed on some rock star. This is well established in common law. The key words are free will and agency. I cross-checked this with various family members who are lawyers (because really, I'm that bored!).

Originally Posted by alikidwhy

As far as remapping and upsize goes, you don’t really turn your car into a mammoth on the road when you do those, do you?
...
...
I am all for modded cars (taste is subjective) but I am not one for cars that endanger the lives of others and I say you think before promoting this on a forum.

And who are you (or me or anyone else) to decide? The law is the law, and meant to be adhered to, just like you said. Whether you are 'for modded cars' or whether your taste is subjective makes bugger-all difference to the law.

Let me be absolutely clear -
1. All mods are illegal.
2. Anyone modifying cars is breaking the law.
3. There are no degrees stated for modifications - unlike homicide. Thus all modifications are equally illegal.
4. All people who mods cars are thus guilty. Whether a repaint or wrap not mentioned in the RC, or a remap, it is illegal. However responsible or tasteful.
5. Driving rashly != !α modified cars. KSRTC and Delhi Blue line buses are examples of this.
6. Driving rashly = illegal.

If you can prove that this person drives rashly, he should be legally sanctioned just like that 300 kmph SBK star was. Otherwise, he is as guilty as everyone buying on this thread in the last 8 years https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modif...nfilm-153.html (Front windscreen sunfilm?)

[bigron]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

:

Let me be absolutely clear -
1. All mods are illegal.
2. Anyone modifying cars is breaking the law.
3. There are no degrees stated for modifications - unlike homicide. Thus all modifications are equally illegal.
4. All people who mods cars are thus guilty. Whether a repaint or wrap not mentioned in the RC, or a remap, it is illegal. However responsible or tasteful.
5. Driving rashly != !α modified cars. KSRTC and Delhi Blue line buses are examples of this.
6. Driving rashly = illegal.

Not really. I observed you vehemently defending this particular modification with your posts. Lets talk law since you emphasize on what is legal and illegal.

The SC judgement on modification leaves enough space for interpretation and there is no blanket ban on modifications. It is an open ended judgement where the court has given the ball to the central government and state government to decide which modification would be illegal and which could pass. The question that needs to be answered is what alterations are made to the vehicle to decipher if they are legal or illegal. For that we go to Section 52 of the MVA.

Thus one carefully needs to understand the meaning of “alterations” as stated under section 52 of the Act.

“Explanation : For the purposes of this section, “alteration” means a change in the structure of a vehicle which results in a change in its basic feature.”

Now this particular owner has altered the basic structure of his vehicle by raising it by such extreme levels. Not to mention the very wide tyres and bumpers that alter the original shape of the vehicle. Actually, he would have been fine with the bumpers if his height was not so raised and his wheels were not so protruding.

If you want to compare this to someone who puts a 185 section tyre in his swift instead of 165 then its a futile dialogue.

Also, I have yet to come across one car in my city or state with fat tyres, and almost every car here has fat tyres and alloys ( a billion Thars for starters), stopped by cops and challaned. And our traffic cops are notorious in the country.
Just like someone with a snorkel or a bike carrier will not be stopped. They could still be stopped but generally are not. But if you drive around in a car that is raised by 5 feet and has tyres that protrude out half the width of the car with light bars and bull bars your car will be impounded.

Similarly, someone doing a 300 kmph on the street is not in the same boat as someone doing 140 even though both of them are over the speed limit. The one doing 140 should be challened, the one doing 300 needs to have his license cancelled and bike de registered.

No one is holier than thou here and everyone has broken rules. But all of them cannot be put in one basket and seen from one eye. The issue is not modification in general but this particular modification.

[v1p3r]

Thanks for your post, bigron. Let me be clear, I give far less than a single rodent's behind about either our friend the owner, or his car. This is about the equal applicability of both morals and law. At least one of those is starkly delineated and can be argued for.

Originally Posted by bigron

I observed you vehemently defending this particular modification with your posts. Lets talk law since you emphasize on what is legal and illegal.

Actually, I am vehemently defending the right of all modifications to be treated equally. I don't really care for this car or its owner - hell I'm not even an SUV fan. This must be a nightmare to even climb into, let alone drive. Also, there is no 'particular modification' on this car that is being defended specifically, since most parts of it - tyres, ride height, bumper, number plate size, auxiliary lights - are contrary to the law. Unless of course you are using the archaic form to refer to the vehicle itself as a modification.

Originally Posted by bigron

The SC judgement on modification leaves enough space for interpretation and there is no blanket ban on modifications.

“No vehicle can be altered so as to change original specification made by manufacturer. Such particulars cannot be altered which have been specified by the manufacturer for the purpose of entry in the certificate of registration" is the wording of the SC's judgement. Thus there is a blanket ban on modifications as per the original RC specifications. This also, by association (I will try and find the exact legal wording) extends to the vehicle's type certification, which is its homologation. Thus, any ride height, any overloading, any colour change not notified in the RC, any power increase differing from the homologation, all are illegal. Please correct me if I am legally wrong in this respect.

Originally Posted by bigron

Thus one carefully needs to understand the meaning of “alterations” as stated under section 52 of the Act.

“Explanation : For the purposes of this section, “alteration” means a change in the structure of a vehicle which results in a change in its basic feature.”

Now this particular owner has altered the basic structure of his vehicle by raising it by such extreme levels.

And it stands to reason that the basic structure would be defined by the registration and type certificates, respectively called RC and homologation. I agree with you, in fact it's what I've stated above.

I do love the doctrine of basic structure in Indian law, and its many subplots. You aren't a lawyer by any chance, are you?

Originally Posted by bigron

Actually, he would have been fine with the bumpers if his height was not so raised and his wheels were not so protruding.

My question remains - is the basic structure defined by RC and homologation? In which case, any raise and any change in geometry - track or WB - is not allowed. I am not a legal expert, but I do have experience in automobiles, and most of us engineers would definitely consider a ride height or track change a change to the basic structure.

Originally Posted by bigron

Just like someone with a snorkel or a bike carrier will not be stopped. But if you drive around in a car that is raised by 5 feet and has tyres that protrude out half the width of the car with light bars and bull bars your car will be impounded.

Ok, fine, it will be impounded, and that is the government's decision. Whether or not that is a legally valid decision can be contested in the due process of law. My question is regarding the moral outrage being expressed on this thread. https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-v...ll-spidey.html (The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey!) Take a look at this vehicle and tell me how its front bumper and ride height passed muster. It was widely lauded on this forum, and I don't see a single post about its dangers and its irresponsibility. Hell, I've known two of the owners and sat in this car - it was awesome. Why the double standards now?

Originally Posted by bigron

Similarly, someone doing a 300 kmph on the street is not in the same boat as someone doing 140 even though both of them are over the speed limit.

I agree with you. However, having been ticketed for speeding more than once, I was told in 2011 that the law does not differentiate between the two in India. Whether you are 1 kmph over or 100, it is the same. The relevant authority may, in his or her judgement and capacity, add various other things like rash and negligent driving. The penalty for overspeeding, though, will not change in India based on speed, from memory. I am unsure if the new MV rules have a provision for this. It does change in other countries based on speed, and in some cases income.

Originally Posted by bigron

When have you seen a thread from someone that talks about a vehicle being challaned or impounded because it had slightly fatter rims or a snorkel or a door wrap or reshaped but same size bumpers.

My question is the opposite, and not to do with the challans. It is to do with the moral outrage expressed on this thread. Why not outrage for all such egregious violations (as I've linked above) of the vehicle's structure?

This has been a fun conversation in a semi-locked down period.