[Palio_2005]

Originally Posted by vinair

Don't mind some work out while driving - Pick a manual
Nah, changing gears is too inconvenient - Pick a 'proper' automatic!

Thats it!! I mean thats pretty much how I would summarize!!

H:

I think this is not the right approach. If an affordable technology comes from a reputed manufacturer we should accept it. DCT when launched came with many issues and still we have overheating problems with cars in stop go traffic.

I think this is a very convenient option rather than an AMT where I have the convenience of an automatic and control of a manual drive. This technology will allow Hyundai to introduce it in higher cars as well which was the shortcoming of a AMT. Plus it's only 20K more than the manual whereas AMT is at least 45K higher.

The iMT also gives better control when driving uphill/downhill as compared to a AMT or an automatic.

I have an Santro AMT and I would have definitely purchased the iMT if it had been offered a year earlier simply for the convenience. Not everyone is pedal to the metal driver.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by Palio_2005

Hyundai to introduce it in higher cars as well which was the shortcoming of a AMT.

Hyundai doesn’t offer AMT in any car but the Santro. Till now,they have treated Rs 10L paying customers with the respect they deserve by not peddling jugaads in the name of automatic.

Plus it's only 20K more than the manual whereas AMT is at least 45K higher.

This is a bogey. When AMTs were launched, this exact same argument was given and the price difference was 20-25k. With their relative acceptance in the market thanks primarily to Maruti, the difference is now touching 50k. Why would it be any different for this new iMT? Please understand that it is never about the actual cost of the technology. The game is only about positioning, perception and how much you can get the customer to pay for it. Maruti has the gall to demand a 1.25L premium for a 40year old 4 speed torque converter in 2020,when competitors offer far superior 7 speed DCTs, CVTs and 6 speed TCs. They know their customer buys in blind faith.

[vvivek85]

This is a great technology and kudos to Hyundai for bringing it. In the initial phase, there might be few glitches with this mechanism, but this technology is going to stay long.

I wish if I could have this in my Venue, the sole purpose of me not going with DCT was it costs more when compared to the model which I chose. I would have chosen this, had Hyundai brought in an year back.

[SchumiFan]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Hyundai doesn’t offer AMT in any car but the Santro. Till now,they have treated Rs 10L paying customers with the respect they deserve by not peddling jugaads in the name of automatic.

Grand i10 Nios has it as well. i20 might come with CVT like the rest of the competition does.

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

This is a bogey. When AMTs were launched, this exact same argument was given and the price difference was 20-25k. With their relative acceptance in the market thanks primarily to Maruti, the difference is now touching 50k. Why would it be any different for this new iMT? Please understand that it is never about the actual cost of the technology. The game is only about positioning, perception and how much you can get the customer to pay for it.

Celerio was the first AMT to be launched in India I believe. It had a 40K difference between the Manual and Automatic variants. iMT isn't going to sell if they price it any higher. That a person gets an 'almost' automatic at 25K bump in price will be one of the pulling factor for the car.

It cannot be an Innova story which kept moving higher in the price bracket as the years went by. Especially when they have a proper automatic at 1L extra over manual variant.

Or they could just keep raising the cost and make the customer jump to DCT. Not sure if they would do this big launch for such trivial reasons.

[JithinR]

https://youtu.be/6CLOfsAe2mk

Another review (NOTE: This one is in Malayalam...there is a lot of unnecessary comments from the host in the video. Drive review starts at 15:00) where he shifts into 2nd and then to 1st at decent speeds. It seems the iMT doesn't just disengage the clutch at this point. I am not sure how that works since at least in AMTs in manual mode it doesn't shift down unless you are below a certain rpm.

He also tries to shift to 5th at low speeds (like 10km/hr). While the car does not stall, it actually indicates on the MID that a shift to a lower gear is needed. He does loose drive so I am assuming the clutch is disengaged in this case.

[jetsetgo08]

Frankly, I am rather surprised that many here are either kind of unaware or have never tried using the manual mode in AMT equipped cars.

The head nod in AMT 'auto' mode can be avoided if the driver eases his right foot when the car needs an up shift. This is a very well known cheat, and is known to work for almost all AMT cars. In the manual mode of AMT, it is the driver in control, so it would be implicit to assume he would ease his right foot while nudging the gear level to '+' or '-'.

I for sure won't be convinced, unless Hyundai clears up the air on how this iMT is technically very different from Manual mode in AMT. Apart from the visible difference of different gates defined for each gear, i.e. 1-6 gear slots in iMT vs '+' or '-' in the traditional AMT, everything else like clutch actuators and gear shift sensor etc. seem to be similar if not the same. My guess, it is just the less intelligent ECU in iMT which does not have the built in logic to shift the gears based on the speed.

I just hope the manufacturer is not taking everyone for a royal ride.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by JithinR

I am not sure how that works since at least in AMTs in manual mode it doesn't shift down unless you are below a certain rpm.

He also tries to shift to 5th at low speeds (like 10km/hr). While the car does not stall, it actually indicates on the MID that a shift to a lower gear is needed. He does loose drive so I am assuming the clutch is disengaged in this case.

Watched the video. Don't know about the clutch getting disengaged, but can clearly see Hyundai disengage themselves from any warranty claims of premature clutch wear, giving them a chance to put the blame on the poor driving style of consumer.

[nithi]

Originally Posted by JithinR

Hyundai Venue iMT review from Evo india

One of the best reviews I have seen from an Indian reviewer.

In this video, when the guy tests the iMT for HILL HOLD, he says the car has Hill Hold and does not roll back. But in the video between 8:46 ~ 8:49, the car clearly rolls back. But he says it is not rolling back. Am I missing something?

Thanks

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by nithi

In this video, when the guy tests the iMT for HILL HOLD, he says the car has Hill Hold and does not roll back. But in the video between 8:46 ~ 8:49, the car clearly rolls back. But he says it is not rolling back. Am I missing something?

Thanks

Hill hold control (or HLA) just means that the car will automatically apply the brake for about 2 to 3 seconds. Post that the car will roll back. If you have to stop on an incline for longer than those 2 seconds you need to apply the brake or handbrake.

Besides, as far as I know Hyundai Venue has HLA only in the SX(O) and SX+ variants. So, if you have the iMT system in the SX variant you need to engage the brake or the handbrake to prevent roll back.

[Xaos636]

Originally Posted by JithinR

Hill hold control (or HLA) just means that the car will automatically apply the brake for about 2 to 3 seconds. Post that the car will roll back. If you have to stop on an incline for longer than those 2 seconds you need to apply the brake or handbrake.

That's not the case in my Venue DCT. It holds the brake for around 6-7 seconds after which it starts moving forward on its own. Never rolls back. Have tried multiple times on the steepest of climbs before handing over the car to my wife.

[Sudarshan_N]

Originally Posted by jetsetgo08

Frankly, I am rather surprised that many here are either kind of unaware or have never tried using the manual mode in AMT equipped cars.

The head nod in AMT 'auto' mode can be avoided if the driver eases his right foot when the car needs an up shift. This is a very well known cheat, and is known to work for almost all AMT cars. In the manual mode of AMT, it is the driver in control, so it would be implicit to assume he would ease his right foot while nudging the gear level to '+' or '-'.

I for sure won't be convinced, unless Hyundai clears up the air on how this iMT is technically very different from Manual mode in AMT. Apart from the visible difference of different gates defined for each gear, i.e. 1-6 gear slots in iMT vs '+' or '-' in the traditional AMT, everything else like clutch actuators and gear shift sensor etc. seem to be similar if not the same. My guess, it is just the less intelligent ECU in iMT which does not have the built in logic to shift the gears based on the speed.

I just hope the manufacturer is not taking everyone for a royal ride.

EDIT:



Watched the video. Don't know about the clutch getting disengaged, but can clearly see Hyundai disengage themselves from any warranty claims of premature clutch wear, giving them a chance to put the blame on the poor driving style of consumer.

As you have said, AMT's manual mode and IMT are almost similar. But, the biggest difference is the way in which gear shifting is carried out. In the manual mode of AMT, although the user decides when to shift gears, the gear shifting process is still automated and it takes it's own sweet time to finish the shifting process. This has also been one of the major pain points of AMT.

But, in case of iMT, the gear shifting is done by the user manually, i.e slotting the gear lever in respective gear slots and this is where iMT addresses the drawback of AMT. In this case, the shifting time will be much quicker than the AMTs. So, we can have the positives of AMT (absence of clutch) and also address the drawback (gear shifting time).

IMHO, Hyundai's move to introduce iMT is clever.
The clutch wear should be similar in both iMT/AMT and how Hyundai will address the warranty on such cases is a different topic altogether .

[nithi]

Originally Posted by JithinR

Hill hold control (or HLA) just means that the car will automatically apply the brake for about 2 to 3 seconds. Post that the car will roll back. If you have to stop on an incline for longer than those 2 seconds you need to apply the brake or handbrake.

Besides, as far as I know Hyundai Venue has HLA only in the SX(O) and SX+ variants. So, if you have the iMT system in the SX variant you need to engage the brake or the handbrake to prevent roll back.

I had driven to Kolli Hills, in Tamil Nadu, last January, where in some of the very steep slopes, I had to apply brake as well as Hand Brake to prevent the car from sliding back. Even if I release either the brake or the hand brake, the car will slide back. I had to apply Accelerator, slowly slip the clutch, while still pressing the brake with the left leg, until the car started juddering and then release the brake & hand brake. I was using the 3 pedals at the same time. Not sure how will iMT behave in that kind of situation, where the Accelerator has to be revved and then the clutch has to be released slowly to move ahead ( without sliding back ). The key is the release of clutch & brake has to be in sync. When there is no clutch, how to sync?

Thanks

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by nithi

I had driven to Kolli Hills, in Tamil Nadu, last January, where in some of the very steep slopes, Not sure how will iMT behave in that kind of situation, where the Accelerator has to be revved and then the clutch has to be released slowly to move ahead ( without sliding back ).

Thanks

The Evo review below shows the care seems to have Hill Hold Control, i.,e., when stopped on a steep incline and the foot released off the brake, the car does not roll back. This is surprising, for two reasons:

• The brochure states that only the DCT transmission has Hill Hold Control
• The mechanisms of application of the clutch as explained by various reviewers states that the clutch is activated only when the gear level if moved. So in a steep incline, the car should stall since the clutch is not active.

But the Evo reviw shows how the car does not roll back and even when going reverse up a steep slope, the car does not stall or roll forward when not using the accelerator. Hyundai must have found an intelligent way to counter this scenario..

[RoadMonkey]

Originally Posted by vinair

I just don't see any reason why anyone would want to buy such a unproven, complicated tech and drive around feeling paranoid everytime! As if our driving environment isn't challenging enough, these manufacturers are upto making the life of a average driver more challenging!

Now, I fully realise my usecase/condition is uncommon, but let me still express how much I appreciate something like iMT over AMT.

I love manuals, I drive a manual, I can't think of giving up on the power that I feel is changing gears while driving. I'm usually considered the best "shifter" in my circle, I can switch gears, downshift at high speeds and such without anyone in the car feeling it. But there's a catch, after driving a lot of manual cars, my left knee has developed problems that too at quite a young age (mid 20s). My doctor has advised me to stop driving a manual, the prospect of an automatic does not excite me.

I've been going through scores of options on the "proper" automatic side, in this ~10L budget range, we get a lethargic 1.2P iVtec with a CVT (Jazz), a 1.5 NA with a 4 Speed TC (Brezza), a 1.5 3 cylinder with paddle shifters and TC but with an extremely low fuel economy (EcoSport), a DCT that's already having overheating issues because it's dry clutch, and two AMTs (Nexon and XUV3OO). The market for proper automatics for an enthusiastic driver is yet to mature in India, at least in this price bracket.

This iMT "jugaad" caters to my needs perfectly, sure it'll take away a lot of the maneuverability of a proper manual, but it's still a great solution for my problem and still provides me with the "Manual" ability to switch gears, which I quite enjoy while driving. Now if Ford were to plonk their TC with paddle shifters on the TDCi, I'd definitely change my mind.

(Pls pls Ford!)

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by RoadMonkey

I love manuals, I drive a manual, I can't think of giving up on the power that I feel is changing gears while driving. I'm usually considered the best "shifter" in my circle, I can switch gears, downshift at high speeds and such without anyone in the car feeling it.

Same, and I simply hate automatics now, in fact I hate my automatic Elantra with a passion.. it's comfortable, really tight handler and quiet, when I'm in the backseat, if I've to drive, that super slow transmission and grunting to high revs when floored before changing gears, all irritate me to no end. Not once has it changed gears at the right moment, in all modes, Eco, Sport or Normal.

Same for VWs, Audis, Skodas etc. BMWs are usually tuned for aggressive low end torque so I usually am ok with them as they change at under 2k as long as it's not floored.

I so wish I had my last car back (Getz), perfect car with a perfect gearbox. The only automatic I may like would have 10 gears and each gear should change every 10kmph speed at under 1k rpm. The Elantra is the most expensive car we've bought yet I personally treat it like garbage, just an A-B metal box for me.

Automatics are dumb creatures, no match for a man's reflexes, and I've a feeling the iMT would be dumb as well, since its just an electronic actuator with defined gates for gears, dont expect the fun of a proper manual with our well defined clutch release and hold.

My professor used to say that finance (budgeting) departments kill a product, likewise I say electronics kill a car.

[RoadMonkey]

Originally Posted by dark.knight

Automatics are dumb creatures, no match for a man's reflexes, and I've a feeling the iMT would be dumb as well, since its just an electronic actuator with defined gates for gears, dont expect the fun of a proper manual with our well defined clutch release and hold.

Yes, I know it won't be quite like manual but it does give a close enough experience, and sticking to manuals is not a choice for me anymore. It breaks my heart, but every time I feel the pain and stiffness in my left knee, I'm reminded of how I can't drive manuals anymore. It's only going to get worse with age.

My professor used to say that finance (budgeting) departments kill a product, likewise I say electronics kill a car.

As someone in the financial management, ouch. I agree with the sentiment about electronics killing a car, I do not like the trend of overcomplicated stuff in cars. A car should always first seek to excel at the basics - i.e. driving, with all the bling coming secondary.