[PrideRed]

I have been checking some of the premium hatchback available from different manufacturer and found it a bit surprising that compact sedans(or sub 4M) are are actually cheaper than premium hatchback counterpart.

For instance

Aura SX(0) manual- 9.56 lacs OTR
i20 Asta(O) manual-10.1 lacs OTR

Amaze 1.2 VX- 9.63 lacs OTR.
Jazz 1.2 VX- ~10 lacs OTR.

Dzire ZXI plus- 10.1 lacs OTR
Baleno Alpha 1.2- 9.6 lacs OTR

Tigor XZ plus-8.57 lacs OTR
Altroz XZ(O)-9.42 lacs OTR

The top specs almost have similar equipment and have exact same engine. When it comes to AT though Baleno and i20 come with CVT where as their sedan counterpart come with cheaper AMT. Not the case with Amaze/Jazz though. Yes the premium hatchback are based on different platform(which may be expensive?) but from safety aspect they aren't that great either(Altroz is an exception), nor are they fun to drive. Many people might not find compact sedans attractive but looks are subjective. Car to car, I don't see much of difference and all I thought was a car with a boot was perceived to be premium from buyer perspective. Well you can argue that same holds true for compact SUV, but they come with some additional practicality(higher seating, better GC etc.) and in most case also come with powerful engine options. Do you think the premium hatchback truly justify the price premium over compact sedans?

[Doge]

Because the hatchbacks are based on a global and usually better engineered platform. A Jazz or I20 drive better than an Amaze or an Xcent/ whatever they call it now.

They are able to make compact hatchbacks because they use smaller car platforms to keep it under 4m, it is a no brainer that using a bigger hatch as a base would be impossible.

As for which one of them, I would any day go for a hatch, they look better to my eyes which may be subjective but what is not subjective it that they are not trying to fake themselves to look more expensive by attaching a comical trunk.

Plus a hatch is far more practical with the folding seats.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

Do you think the premium hatchback truly justify the price premium over compact sedans?

In most of the global markets hatchbacks are either priced around same of higher to the corresponding sedan variant, for same engine variant and trim level (e.g.; Jazz v/s City, Mazda 3 hatchback v/s sedan etc.). Could be due to the higher manufacturing cost for that comparatively heavier 5th door (compared to the lighter boot lid). In India sedans are considered as a better status symbol than hatchbacks, and of course the practicality aspects; manufacturers make the most of it. In the examples you mentioned, all those compact sedans are based on a hatchback from a lower segment. Its reasonable that a Brio/i10 with a boot (Amaze/Aura) cost lesser than the Jazz/i20

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by Doge

Because the hatchbacks are based on a global and usually better engineered platform. A Jazz or I20 drive better than an Amaze or an Xcent/ whatever they call it now.
They are able to make compact hatchbacks because they use smaller car platforms to keep it under 4m, it is no brainier that using a bigger hatch as a base would be impossible.
Plus a hatch is far more practical with the folding seats.

I found Dzire to be more engaging to drive than Baleno, Amaze to be peppier than Jazz. Scores are almost even when it comes to safety. Compact sedans also have a larger boot sans folding seat, and I believe this will be more useful when travelling 3-4 people. Does cheaper platform help to save 50K despite market treating sedan premium?

[zaks]

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[turbo]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

I have been checking some of the premium hatchback available from different manufacturer and found it a bit surprising that compact sedans(or sub 4M) are are actually cheaper than premium hatchback counterpart.

For instance

Aura SX(0) manual- 9.56 lacs OTR
i20 Asta(O) manual-10.1 lacs OTR

Amaze 1.2 VX- 9.63 lacs OTR.
Jazz 1.2 VX- ~10 lacs OTR.

Dzire ZXI plus- 10.1 lacs OTR
Baleno Alpha 1.2- 9.6 lacs OTR

Tigor XZ plus-8.57 lacs OTR
Altroz XZ(O)-9.42 lacs OTR

Aura is a Grand i10 nios with a boot
Dzire is a swift with a boot
Tigor is a tiago with a boot.

Amaze is a new brio with a boot (not Jazz).

Premium hatchbacks have better engines, chassis, and interiors.

[AYP]

I am not at all surprised with the difference in the price of these cars. A few reasons I can think of-

1. The premium hatchbacks are built on a superior platform, often global ones compared to the platform on which the compact sedans are based, which are generally built for developing markets.

2. From what I hear, it is not expensive to make a sedan compared to an equivalent hatch as the hatch lid needs additional reinforcement compared to a boot lid of a sedan. Indian manufacturers milk our sedan mindset when it comes to let's say City vs Jazz, but perhaps this difference shows when it comes to compact sedans vs premium hatchbacks.

3. A repetition of point 1, but the compact sedans are generally based on hatches from a segment below and in the case of Tigor, 2 segments below. Ameo was an exception with it being based on a premium hatchback.

4. Premium sedans are much closer to the C-2 segment sedans in terms of built, interior quality and features. Examples are the Polo-Vento and the Jazz-City. While the i20-Verna and the Baleno-Ciaz aren't as similar to each other as the previous examples, but still, at least the i20 is much closer in quality to the Verna as compared to the Aura.

I don't think peppiness or added boot space should necessarily make the compact sedans more expensive than the premium hatchbacks. A sedan is more practical by the nature of its design irrespective of the platform underneath and might be more peppy due to its lower kerb weight. If a compact sedan has been launched later than the premium hatch, then it may be more peppy due to better engine tuning or some other modifications but even then, it doesn't change the fact that that the premium hatchback was engineered in a better way with a superior platform underneath.

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by AYP

I don't think peppiness or added boot space should necessarily make the compact sedans more expensive than the premium hatchbacks. A sedan is more practical by the nature of its design irrespective of the platform underneath and might be more peppy due to its lower kerb weight. If a compact sedan has been launched later than the premium hatch, then it may be more peppy due to better engine tuning or some other modifications but even then, it doesn't change the fact that that the premium hatchback was engineered in a better way with a superior platform underneath.

I agree that chassis/ platform might be better engineered in a premium hatch than compact sedan, but what's the point if it drives similarly and is doesnot score additional brownie point w.r.to safety? I don't see perceivable difference in interior quality of say Dzire/Baleno or Amaze/Jazz. The C2 sedans justify higher pricing as they are significantly larger, comes with bigger engine and in most case also comes with more kit. But in cas of premium hatch difference is only w.r.to underlying platform without much foreseeable advantage.

[AYP]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

I agree that chassis/ platform might be better engineered in a premium hatch than compact sedan, but what's the point if it drives similarly and is doesnot score additional brownie point w.r.to safety?

In India, manufacturers are milking us even with their global cars. The premium hatches drive similarly, (worse infact) due to the reasons which I have already stated before. Just because a car drives in a similar way doesn't mean everything is gone in wain. The higher you pay, the less value you get. That can be applied here.

Also, we shouldn't forget the fact about the R&D cost of a better platform which has to recovered.

I would like to give another example here, many a times, I feel that a 10 Rupee gel pen writes better than a Parker, but the higher cost of Parker is justified in its own way right? At least I feel so.

I agree that safety should be better in a higher priced car but I would like to emphasize a few things-

1. The safety ratings are similar but still skewed towards the premium hatches.

2. The price difference between the cars stated here is less than 10%.

3. Indian manufactuers are taking us for a ride even with their global models. An example being the Venue(and the upcoming i20) being based on the K1-Santro platform compared to the different platform on which it is based internationally.

4. Safety in one of the factor but not the only factor due to which there can be an increase in price of a product.

Originally Posted by PrideRed

I don't see perceivable difference in interior quality of say Dzire/Baleno or Amaze/Jazz.

I do see a perceivable difference between the Amaze and the Jazz. Though I do agree with the Dzire and Baleno situation but we shouldn't forget the Polo-Vento and the i20-Verna.

Originally Posted by PrideRed

The C2 sedans justify higher pricing as they are significantly larger, comes with bigger engine and in most case also comes with more kit.

Very true.

Originally Posted by PrideRed

But in cas of premium hatch difference is only w.r.to underlying platform without much foreseeable advantage.

Have already answered in my post above. Though just like everything in the world, it is subjective in the sense that some may not see the value in paying extra even though very few would deny that there are some merits in owning a premium hatch when compared to a compact sedan.

As far as being more peppy is concerned, a Polo TSi is peppier than the Vento and the Grand i10 is peppier than the Aura and the i20. It has less to do with the platform which underpins the car and more to do with the weight and the dimensions of the car.

[anandhsub]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

I agree that chassis/ platform might be better engineered in a premium hatch than compact sedan, but what's the point if it drives similarly and is doesnot score additional brownie point w.r.to safety? I don't see perceivable difference in interior quality of say Dzire/Baleno or Amaze/Jazz.

The only CS i will pick over the hatchback would be the Dzire over the Baleno.

Else in terms of safety an Altroz easily scores over the Tigor and the Jazz over the Amaze. Not sure about I20/ Aura but the interiors in I20 were far better than that in a Grand i10. In fact I found the Elite I20's interiors to be better than my Fluidic Verna

[Latheesh]

Few reasons:
- Compact sedans are based on cheaper hatch backs
- Length is almost same
- Additional structural reinforcements (due to 2 vs 3 box design)
- Heavier hatch door
- Additional parts like rear wash wipe, telescopic stay instead of S-link, rear defogger etc.
- Hatch back cabin volume is high and it add to material cost
- Compact sedans are made for India comparing to made in India hatch backs (read heavy cost cutting on parts you do not see)

If possible don't buy any made for India products (except books may be)

[turbo]

Originally Posted by AYP

3. Indian manufactuers are taking us for a ride even with their global models. An example being the Venue(and the upcoming i20) being based on the K1-Santro platform compared to the different platform on which it is based internationally.

Apologies for the but source for the info that the new i20 we're getting is different from the rest of the world? I Googled, couldn't find anything.

[AYP]

Originally Posted by turbo

Apologies for the but source for the info that the new i20 we're getting is different from the rest of the world? I Googled, couldn't find anything.

2 sources-

1. Carwale-

https://www.carwale.com/news/2020-hy...ails-revealed/

The above article talks about the new i20 being based on a modified Venue platform, which in India is based on the K1 platform and the title of the article is '2020 Hyundai Elite i20 for India: Details revealed'. But I don't believe in sites like these much.

2. A better source is this post-

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4793695

and the subsequent posts thereafter.

So, the new i20 for India being based on the K1 platform is not technically cast in stone for now but it is practically inevitable, to the point where I am gonna go ahead and mention it in my posts as a fact.

I wouldn't mind being proven wrong though as that will be a great news for our market.

[landcruiser123]

Reasons:
1. Hatchbacks require additional strengthening at the rear end. Corolla hatchback is more expensive than the sedan in the international markets
2. Sedans share most of the parts with the smaller hatchback- hence costs are spread over larger volumes
3. Compact sedans are exclusive to the emerging markets, they probably aren't engineered as well

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

I have been checking some of the premium hatchback available from different manufacturer and found it a bit surprising that compact sedans(or sub 4M) are are actually cheaper than premium hatchback counterpart.

The so-called compact sedans in our market are basically hack jobs on smaller hatchbacks and not the ones you are comparing it with. You won't find those CSs anywhere else in the world. Infact globally compact sedans are verna, city and all. Basically in India the boot leads to status symbol (badi gaadi) which the manufacturers are milking since years

Originally Posted by turbo

Aura is a Grand i10 nios with a boot
Dzire is a swift with a boot
Tigor is a tiago with a boot.

Amaze is a new brio with a boot (not Jazz).

Premium hatchbacks have better engines, chassis, and interiors.

Engine mostly is same in our market thanks to sub4m rule but yeah everything else is usually better in premium hatchbacks.

Originally Posted by PrideRed

I don't see perceivable difference in interior quality of say Dzire/Baleno or Amaze/Jazz.

Don't know about dzire/Baleno but if you sit back to back in jazz and amaze the difference would be evident. I have both brio and Jazz. The Amaze feels exactly like the brio quality wise which is understandable as it's afterall a brio+boot. Although Honda quality levels have come down lately, still the Jazz feels comparitively premium in every respect. Practicality-wise probably Amaze scores higher for our market and hence sells way more.