[GTO]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

VW group have enough to worry about in sales and scandals.

Lovely post ! To add, VAG & Tata had explored an alliance earlier for a cheap platform, but it was called off - link. IMHO, two strong partners will rarely make for a great partnership & neither VW nor Tata would budge from their positions. Both have egos the size of the planet. Something like Toyota & Suzuki is easier, where the "boss" is made amply clear from day 1.

[Theyota]

A JV partner for Tata Motors PV business is good news. It should be, even for fanboys. Tata Motors needs billions of dollars to invest in technologies of future (electric and autonomous mobility). There is no way Tata Motors can do it with internal funds. It is already leveraged quite a lot due to JLR buy and loss making PV business. Even cash rich auto majors are going for JVs to reduce risks of their investments in technologies of the future.



A minority Chinese investor is even better, because they will be a more passive investor unlike a European or an American investor while still providing the needed technologies and volume advantages. Tatas will still have power control the strategy, operations and compliance part of the business. Brand name will be preserved. Will remain an Indian company. It will be partially like JLR under Tata ownership. A Japanese investor means years of cultural trial and errors which can be very expensive at this point of time. Koreans are not so known for compliance and joint ventures from my minimum knowledge of their businesses.

[sunnsood]

Originally Posted by GTO

Lovely post ! To add, VAG & Tata had explored an alliance earlier for a cheap platform, but it was called off - link. IMHO, two strong partners will rarely make for a great partnership & neither VW nor Tata would budge from their positions. Both have egos the size of the planet. Something like Toyota & Suzuki is easier, where the "boss" is made amply clear from day 1.

I agree to disagree on this. Tata has partnerships with the top airlines who are best in their class:
a. Air Asia(low cost)
b. Singapore Airlines (Full fledged airline)

VW and Tata doesn't make sense to me as they both have different personality all together. No matter how bad their customer service may be, Tata (I feel) will never go as far as VW did with the diesalgate issue in cheating every customer.

They might have seen positive impact on the JLR - Cherry partnership.

This post has so many might's that its purely speculative in the end.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

I'm a little 50:50 on the chinese deal. One part of me thinks that this is a good move to get cash flow and backing from deep pockets like Cherry and Geely but other part of me thinks they should look at someone with more engineering depth.

Well put. I think they can go in with MG too. Someone who is pretty well accepted by the Indian market by now.

[VJ05]

On a lighter note, If Tata Motors has gone through all the threads in Team-bhp related to Tata Cars or it's Dealership/service issues or problem and worked on identifying the root cause and resolving them then they would not have been in this situation looking for the partner.

[charanreddy]

Sincerely hoping they don’t do a Chevy and launch the equivalent of the Sail twins and the Enjoy.. it would RUIN their goodwill on great products they have these last 3 years starting from Tiago.

May be its just me, but I fail to understand how a JV would help Tata. The problem for Tata is not in manufacturing or products, it’s in sales and marketing (IMHO, happy to stand corrected). Tata repeatedly churns our desirable VFM products and has a rich heritage as a manufacturer ( Indica, sumo , safari are all super success stories) . It’s the marketing and sales and Brand management team that’s been unable to push such desirable products out to consumers. The last awesome ad I recall is the safari from ~20 hrs back. They botched up a great product like the nano.

None of the Tata ads highlight the ‘Indian’ quotient , for gods sakes Maruti which is Jap owned does it better ( remember the ‘India comes home in a Maruti’ ad ).

Tata PVs desperately need an image makeover rather than a JV partner, whose credentials will be further dinged by an alliance with a Chinese partner. Just my 2 cents, so kindly take it as such

[xway]

I somehow dont think this partnership will be fruitful.

Partnerships are good when they compensate for each others short comings.

Tata cars majorly suffer from or perceived as such with -

Poor Quality Fit and Finish (overall)
Support and Service (as shared by many)
Poor Image (due to Nano and labeled as cheap cars)
Poor brand value in comparision to other Cars
Poor brand value in comparision to other Tata Brands

Now the Chinese also have the above straits. They are considered cheap with poor fit and finish and almost no support.

How can then such partnerships add value ?

Instead they should partner with some brand who has reputation and solid reliability and quality. So people will think that now with this Tata cars will get the same.

Also, with the recent developments surrounding the Corona Pandemic and China connection with it, people are skeptical of China products and will boycott them for sure if found a direct connection.

[dragracer567]

Sadly this is something that was waiting to happen. We should keep in mind that Chinese companies are flush with money not because they are somehow more efficient than European/Japanese/Korean companies, it’s just that they are aggressively backed by the Chinese government (read Communist party). While it’s perfectly acceptable for a ethical Chinese company to invest in a company like Tata, the big Chinese companies are almost never ethical. I know American companies aren’t angels either but Chinese companies almost always have to play by the rules of the opaque Chinese communist party leadership and it’s almost impossible to be a big Chinese company to be ethical.

With the new rules on Chinese FDI into India, it will be interesting to see how the government responds to this.

[K_Drive]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

While it’s perfectly acceptable for a ethical Chinese company to invest in a company like Tata, the big Chinese companies are almost never ethical. I know American companies aren’t angels either but Chinese companies almost always have to play by the rules of the opaque Chinese communist party leadership and it’s almost impossible to be a big Chinese company to be ethical.

If a company invest in India, it has to abide Indian rules. Chinese got money and they invest in profitable business all over the world. Our own Paytm got Alibaba as their parent company and most of the common man doesn't know it and it won't make much difference even if people know it. Basically if Tata holds the major share and they are the decision makers, then Indian's won't care much. Ethics will be intact

[SaiSW]

Tbh, I don't think this is as bad as some make it out to be. The reason I believe so is, out of all the types of partnerships there can be, I am pretty positive that the Chinese have the deepest pockets and are the most willing to reach inside as deep. Just look at Volvo, pretty sure all that Chinese funding has only made positive effects.

Suzuki has found a big brother in Toyota, so for any chance for the rest of the industry to get through this partnership, is to find good ones of their own.

[TejasKinger]

Quite an interesting take on the current Tata motors situation in today's Beyond First Order Newsletter by The Ken.

[volkman10]

Tata Motors to drive in foreign partner in India passenger car business.

Tata Motors has set the ball rolling to induct a foreign strategic partner in its India passenger vehicle business by transferring the unit to a wholly-owned subsidiary for Rs 9,417 crore.

The flagship of the Tata Group is in talks with multiple automakers, among them European and East Asian, to sell up to 49% stake in its India passenger vehicle business, which accounted for 4% (Rs 10,297 crore) of its turnover in fiscal 2020

The company has held talks with various Chinese players, including Geely, Changan, and Chery, which is a 50% partner in JLR’s China venture. The deteriorating relations between India and China has impacted deal-making

Tata Motors has also been conversation with a few others, including France’s PSA Group. But with PSA merging with Fiat Chrysler, things have slowed

A couple of years ago, Tata Motors and Volkswagen explored an alliance to develop an economy car, but it didn’t materialise

Who will be that strategic Partner that Tata will sign the deal with this time?


Link

[DicKy]

Thought that the phase was over, and Tata was giving another chance for itself, to turn around in 1-2 years. Even if their excruciatingly long product development cycle is not taken care of, atleast their sales and after sales service should be given a Ford India like makeover.

But then, it's business.
Really pained me when Autocarindia gave the death knell of Tata motors. Their copies are free to download for the past two-three months. And twice they said, Tata's glory days are over and they won't recover from this.

As regarding partner choice. The only one that could help rival Suzuki in small car expertise is Daihatsu. Alas, they are under Toyota now, and virtually blocked from the Indian market.
Other than Volkswagen, only Chinese companies are left with enough money. Funny how a couple of years ago, didn't want the Tata-VW JV to go through, for fear of VW swallowing Tata up. And now praying it better be VW than the Chinese.

If JLR was in the package too, VW would have definitely voluntered, regardless of post-dieselgate finance.

Though just imagine. Maruti and Tata being proxies for the giants ( Toyota vs VW ) battles in the Indian market.

[padmrajravi]

I can't think of anyone who will be interested in colloborating with Tata Motors for a minority stake.I hope they find someone from Japan or Korea. Atleast they will learn a thing or two about quality of parts.

It is the lack of parts quality that comes out as bad service experience in case of Tata cars. Service experience is a hit or miss with every manufacturer. Human component will always lead to complaints in service experience. Even Hyundai or Toyota have their horror stories regarding service experience. Where they are different is the failure rates of parts like motors, switches, hoses, valves etc.

[fearless_IN]

Indian Automobile has good number of brands, if Tata is looking forward to bring new brand to India with this JV, IMHO, will be too much for Indian market.

Tata should seek the proposals from existing foreign brands in India.
Ford has already done the JV with Mahindra.
Toyota has already done the JVN with Maruti.

Who left? It's VW or Honda. I think both these foreign companies can seek opportunities to establish them in Indian market 1 more time.

Honda being a Japanese Car Maker, high on quality, must try for this golden opportunity. As currently, Honda lacks SUV segment completely in India and with Tata they can come with some good SUVs (all ranges) for Indian market, which can be a win-win situation for both the companies.

Let's see, how this JV turns out for Indian market.