[CarNerd]

1 Crore for this ugly looking Box??? What's wrong with Toyota? Even a kid would have designed it better. Something is wrong with Japanese design. They should call it the "Hellfire".

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Even in the matured markets like US/ Canada and Europe people have not adapted to these the way they are choosing Electric. Previously, even I used to think that Hybrids are midway and will suit us better but given the high costs and the limited number of manufacturers ( true hybrids), I don't see a future. And the way we have seen in past, even if the Government drops GST on such vehicles to 18 %, Toyota will not reduce prices proportionately.

So, I am afraid, I don't see any future of this technology.

Completely agree on this. Barring few hybrid's like Prius,Leaf to certain extent most of the hybrids didn't do quite well. Nissan even pulled plug on hybrid Rogue which otherwise is a popular car. Keeping aside the useless mild hybrid's(read Maruti), there is no way I see these becoming economical. Once the all electric cars start flourishing, hybrids will be buried deep under and Toyota will be repenting this decision.

And as I write this, I see news that Toyota has joined hands with BYD to develop electric vehicles.

[saur95]

Originally Posted by Samurai

More than the car, I think we should focus on their SHEV strategy, which is what they are really trying to push. What do you guys think about their SHEV better than EV philosophy?

Just curious, did they differentiate between this from the Camry Hybrid & Lexus Hybrids that are already on sale?

From what I've collected off various sources online, calling it SHEV instead of merely an HEV is a marketing gimmick and there is nothing different from the Hybrid Synergy Drive technology that is already on offer in the Camry. Advertisements were banned in Norway for this very reason (https://electrek.co/2020/01/24/toyot...ed-norway-lie/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnxdAURqpfY

.

While the elite might lap this up as a 'distinctive' 7 seater option, I feel it will be more on the basis of reliability or as a status symbol. Fuel economy is a non issue at that price point IMO and the Hybrid badge will be last thing a bystander will notice on this car.

The Corolla/C-HR Hybrid if priced under 20L (with assistance from the government) will be more likely to lead to mass adoption considering these are more likely to be daily drivers, where good fuel economy is a major factor. In fact, considering how SUV crazy India (or the world in general) is right now, even the RAV4 priced similarly to its diesel rivals would fare well. Owners in this segment are more likely to boast about or promote their hybrid vehicles at their offices/to their families.

Originally Posted by blackwasp

I was always of the opinion that hybrids are the way to go in India. Esp, the ones like the Camry, etc. and not the mild ones from Maruti. I have been a staunch advocate of the Camry hybrid and someone I know who owns one is my viewpoint. He says in peak traffic, the car gives 14+ km/l even today. The car is the old model and was picked up pre-GST days when the prices were good.

There is no headache of charging or any special requirements. Being a Toyota, it just goes for regular servicing. Also, if and when the battery goes bust (lakhs of km + tens of years), owners can simply not bother to replace it and run it like a regular petrol car.

I feel the same way! The Camry Hybrid delivers unparalleled fuel economy in the city, often more than 150% of what its diesel counterparts offer. Hybrids could have helped us get a head start on curbing emissions and reducing fossil fuel consumption. A more aggressive FAME scheme (which the first generation Camry Hybrid enjoyed for a short period of time) will help manufacturers price these cars more reasonably.

In addition to the benefits you've mentioned, the lack of range anxiety also make it more suitable for single car garages, one that is suitable for the weekday and the weekend. I doubt there are many who can afford to have an 18-25L vehicle as their second car but there are definitely more takers for a primary, well equipped car in the same price range.

[Vid6639]

Yes it looks like a box on wheels but there is no other box that stands out in traffic like the Vellfire does. And I believe this will be the USP of this.

For the money you could get an Audi Q7 or a BMW X7 or a GLS but none of them will stand out in traffic more than the Vellfire. And none of them even come close to the rear seat luxury of the Toyota as well. The V class Elite is 30-40lakhs more than the Vellfire.

So if you want something that stands out amongst your social circle and you want bragging right and be part of the go green brigade, the Vellfire is your pick vs the diesel SUV's and V-class.

Personally I was expecting it to be priced a good 20lakhs lower and compete with the E class not touch 1cr on road but around 75-80L on road. It is tough to sell a Toyota van for 1cr and almost pointless.

Regarding the Hybrid, yes Toyota has a point about full EV's needing insanely large batteries which are not as efficient vs the weight. They currently have no EV's in their entire product lineup worldwide and I think they sort of missed the bus but are now propagating this as self charging Hybrid.

The whole argument that Hybrid is the way to go vs full EV is a good point but then it is pointless in a 1Cr van that will sell in single digits as a full CBU.

If they really want to propagate Hybrid's bring it down to mass market cars and figure out a way to reduce costs, not sell a 1Cr refrigerator with this theory.

[Aafaq]

Luxury packed in an ugly box!
Don't the Alloy wheels look similar to Ciaz's? Nevertheless an excellent review.

[McLaren Rulez]

Why would someone buy this over a V-Class Expression? The SHEV is nice but surely not enough of a differentiator to outdo the Merc badge, no?

Genuinely curious about this and would love to hear from those who've driven both.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Why would someone buy this over a V-Class Expression?

Genuinely curious about this and would love to hear from those who've driven both.

A couple of reasons, except for the Mercedes Logo, V class doesn’t has anything premium if we leave Elite and Marco polo variants whereas Toyota gets premium leather and very soft plastics all across. The quality of interiors on Toyota is more like Lexus.

When you drive a V class it actually feels like a Van, the engine is okish as it is a 4 cylinder diesel. Toyota gets a hybrid engine which is miles ahead in performance and overall noise/ vibration. You won’t even notice that car is running.

I am not sure about the chassis on V class, it should be shared with other MB vans, so it’s meant to take higher load whereas Toyota handles totally different, more like a Car. You can self drive easily for hundreds of Kms without a sweat. It’s far easier in traffic as well.

On Toyota, All 4 seats get individual heat and cooled options. Mid seats get long thigh extenders which are very comfortable.

Just by sitting in both the cars, you can immediately appreciate the quality of materials and overall ambiance in Toyota. If you have to ferry larger number of people and commercially, V class may make a sense over Toyota. Mercedes is strongly built and will carry more luggage/ people and Diesel will give better mileage but if you are looking something for personal use, Toyota wins by a fair margin.

Don’t go by my observations about middle seat, I have got spoilt by some of the other vehicles Best will be to try on your own. Most large dealership will have these for demo.

[landcruiser123]

Great thread! Such a stratospheric price tag mean that this car is only for people/organizations who benefit from EPCG. I'm glad that this is a good hybrid where the 2.5 gasoline engine is hardly used.

Originally Posted by Samurai

6) There isn’t enough Lithium in the world to satisfy the government's 2030 goal. There is no EV battery manufacturing base in India.

I think that electric cars are a fad and hydrogen cars are the next revolutionary technology. I'm sure scientists will figure out an efficient means to produce hydrogen in a decade or two.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Such a stratospheric price tag mean that this car is only for people/organizations who benefit from EPCG.

Did you read the last two lines for the first post?

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Did you read the last two lines for the first post?

I can foresee a lot of orders from the Government, when things stabilizes. They can get at Zero customs and GST. Practically around 30 Lac

Will these politicians/ ministers support Toyota as a brand Ambassador, I doubt, they will probably like to be seen in some exclusive vehicles

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Did you read the last two lines for the first post?

Must admit, I did miss that part. Makes no sense that GoI doesn't give enough benefits for Hybrids.

[jayguar]

The Vellfire looks better on the outside when compared to the Toyota Alphard. Going by just the photos of the interiors, the Vellfire seem to have an upper hand against the Mercedes V Class and that includes the 3rd row. The 3rd row seats look like full size seats comfortable even for tall adults. The only thing that looks awkward in the interior is the center headrest in the 3rd row.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by jayguar

The only thing that looks awkward in the interior is the center headrest in the 3rd row.

It looks like they decided at the last minute to make the Vellfire a 7 seater, instead of a 6 seater. But it was too late to re-design the seats. So they added the center headrest and called it a 7 seater.

[haisaikat]

The Hybrid and Earth Friendly outlook clubbed with longer wheelbase and overall length than the Innova Crysta and the Toyota reliability, if these are the USPs of this vehicle then considering the price point will this be ever an appealing value proposition against a modded Crysta or the Carnival?

If we discount the space in the 3rd row seat, then looking at the recent DC modded Innova Crysta over a top of the line Petrol trim will stun anyone at half the price of the Vellfire.

It is all over the news in recent days https://auto.ndtv.com/news/actor-mad...design-2205258

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by haisaikat

If we discount the space in the 3rd row seat, then looking at the recent DC modded Innova Crysta over a top of the line Petrol trim will stun anyone at half the price of the Vellfire.

That would be like buying a Corolla, handing it over to DC Design and expecting E-class like comfort/luxury at half the price.

Actually, Vellfire is NOT a family multi-purpose van like Innova or Carnival. It does NOT do 6 adults + luggage as well as Carnival. In Vellfire, the floor is high and you have to climb into the 2nd row seats which might be difficult for aged persons. In Vellfire, the ease of getting into 3rd row seats is not that great (Eg: middle row seats don't flip forward) by MPV standards either.

Vellfire is purpose-built from ground up as luxury business/executive van. It does only one thing well, and that is transport business owner/film actor/politician over short and long distance in luxury and comfort.

Regarding looks, Vellfire is not photogenic. But in reality, it is not too bad. It actually stands out well from the crowd, and people who want exclusivity would be interested in signing up.