[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

we are not talking here of money saving.this is regarding the fact that euro cars are unreliable and have pseudo built quality.


if u want to save money why dont u buy 10 M800 instead of that accord.i am pretty sure that the 800 will be able to outlive(atleast it will match it) the accord.there are example running for over 20 years now in pretty decent condition..

Well Merve Im not sure if you understood the significance of the highlights I have furnished...Anyways...let me put it this way...If you give $40k to a japanese to build one car, he will give you a product which is 3generations ahead of a RR in performance, much more grander in its outlook(not to mention they will buy few Italians to design as Italian designs are generally more appealing to a human eye) and trust me you will have that car serviced around the corner of your block!!! Now thats not only efficiency but also planning genius,,,which euro cars lack in general, none will deny that. If you debate that RR is an engineers car man you are wrong as most RR's look like hearse vans with profound leather seating, a gold steering and other absolutely unnecessary gaud!!!prove me wrong mate...

[Rtech]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Tensile certificates are mandatory and come with the sheet metal from the factory, at least in US they do, we are not talking bout India here. The body shop in question was MB authorized by the way,

well, I have never owned a Benz or visited their Authorised shop ever, but I did work briefly for a huge import dealer in Georgia. Toyota's, Honda's, Nissan's...everything Jap basically. Firstly, no dealership will get a sheet of metal. What are they going to do with it, fabricate a fender? If anything needs to be replaced, it comes as a ready-to-paint unit direct from the factory after being ordered from a parts list. I have never seen the tensile certificate, and am pretty sure none of the other senior techs I worked with did either! Anyways, if you say they did, I'll take you at your word.

Originally Posted by Gurkha

I have had both City and Astra rear end my Jonga and none survived, end of discussion.

You take a car and ram it into a brick wall (or your Jonga in tis case) and if doesn't matter what it is, it will crumple! That's what they are designed to do and does not prove anything.

My point was on "normal" wear & tear. And i think you know the answer to that question.

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Also bear in mind, City was created for Asia keeping fuel economy in mind, therefore lightweight is a must, drive a US spec Civic or Accord or check the NHSTA records and you will see the truth, lets be scientific here, not seat of the pants.

Again, crash tests are a different ballgame. 2 cars may have the same NCAP ratings, but may age in a completly different manner. No, not scientific, but then neither is a human beings decision making process when it comes to choosing his/her own preferences.

Sadly, the snobbish G sites don't even recognize the Gurkha as it is made in India, now you can see what prejudice really is even though their press thought otherwise. They shudder at the thought of their beloved, super expensive Gelande Wagen being made by 3rd world, un-skilled lowly Indians, I should know as I have spatted with most of these fools at various off road forums

You seem to have had some bad experiences in your time overseas. This is not the first time you have brought in the "lowly Indian's" thing. its not very scientific to let your emotions get the better of you.

I am really at a loss as to what exactly you are trying to say here. Everyone is in agreement that the Jap's are the masters of reliability. However, nobody (no, not even you) can deny the "FEEL" inside a good european car. Once again, it may not be scientific, but it is what it is.

There are so many other reasons when it comes to buying/liking a car. Why is Ferrari so revered? There are faster, better handling and better built cars out there which are TECHNICALLY far superior. If everyone were to be scientific about things, poor enzo would have been forced to shut shop and team up with Toyota to build Camry's a long time ago.

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

u will never find Mercs,bmw's,porsches and rollers(unless all of them are banged beyond recognition) in car dumps and i wonder why is that.

Actually, you will find quite a few.

[Gurkha]

Rtech,

If you wish to nit pick, be my guest, by sheet metal, I meant pre fab door panels, rocker panels etc. and yes, they come with tensile certificates. I should have probably been more elaborate but I am replying many posts at once.

I have no such bad experience as such but I do tend not to be selectively deaf as per my overseas experience goes. As for normal wear and tear, CR reports reveal that Euro cars fare far worse than their Japanese counterparts, having owned VW, MB as well as Mazda and Honda, can testify to that myself, only the W123 MB justified its mettle, the fact that my Honda Accord is still running at 500,000 miles speaks for itself.

As for the lowly Indian comment, you just did not comprehend the whole point at all, read it again carefully. I was just highlighting perceptions and prejudices based on country of origin.

As for personal preference, that is our right and no one can take away from that, looks like if we are to base that as yardstick, the Japanese cars sales speak for itself, the fact that they manage to stay on top in the US market also indicates that. No one is telling Enzo to close his shop and build Camry, but no one should also be having a false sense of superiority complex based on myth and price as well.

[RX135]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

If you debate that RR is an engineers car man you are wrong as most RR's look like hearse vans with profound leather seating, a gold steering and other absolutely unnecessary gaud!!!prove me wrong mate...

Then I am not sure if you know about RR history. They were using aircraft technology long back. I know the sort of shape designs they use. They use highest level continuity of curves/surfaces. Most the cars were hand crafted. It is not just about looks, mate!
And talking about cheaper than RR cars, you should have looked at that Chinese version of Phantom. I guess, that is what you get back.

[typeOnegative]

The Japs build their cars for the mass market. That's it. The mass market is not bothered about the feel of the car. It is bothered about how much it will run without giving trouble. Jap cars are built to serve a need and they do it very well. European and I must say cars are built around a passion. Atleast that is the approach and philosophy difference. It is the difference between a photograph and an oil painitng masterpiece. The photo will last longer, get stored easily and need not be looked after. Hell it costs much less too. But an oil painitng masterpiece is timeless. Hope you all are getting my drift.

That is not to say that we can bracket cars from one country being inferior to another. After all a Hyundai Accent has much more going for it than a Fiat Uno. But in the same price range and the same market segment? Well the differences are clear. To each his own.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by RX135

Then I am not sure if you know about RR history. They were using aircraft technology long back. I know the sort of shape designs they use. They use highest level continuity of curves/surfaces. Most the cars were hand crafted. It is not just about looks, mate!
And talking about cheaper than RR cars, you should have looked at that Chinese version of Phantom. I guess, that is what you get back.

RX 135,,,first read my mail properly.... Now, if there is something technologically so advance yet looks like a hearse van yet costs a fortune, man they need help!!! If you believe highest level continuity of curves/surfaces makes that car sell, thats not right at all...in that case they can build or source a small airplane fuselage fit it with 4 tubeless tires(value addition) and call it a ROLLS ROYCE car??? man you gotta be kidding if you say hand crafted are better...rather they are prone to human errors which machines dont yet people pay a bomb...why?? You know it now...RR's are status symbols and not technological marvels brother...Vtec's are...!

[typeOnegative]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

You know it now...RR's are status symbols and not technological marvels brother...Vtec's are...!

Dude, RR engines are legendary. The VTEC is a marvel but ask some one with deep pockets which marvel he will choose.

[merve_extreme]

@wolf:who told u that i am refering to RR as a techo marvel answer about the reliablity and build of the RR.then i will make a point.

and i 40k $ not even god will be able to create a new small car,let alone a luxury car.it requires Millions in investment.it is easy to take tech developed and perfected by others and put in ur car for half the cost.

the company which develops the product has to price the car acc to revcover the cost of development.try fitting the presafe(found in latest mercs and developed by merc) system in a toyota yaris not.it will increase the cost of the car 2 folds but after 10 years yaris will too have presafe eystem at 10% of the cost.

that is how the japanese companies work and reduce the cost of development.now see in 2 years all lexus's will have 7-speed auto which was first developed by mercedes.so they will save on the costs.cant they do something substantial on their own.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

and are u telling that a range rover will get stuck in the sand.u must be joking.see this topgear mag pics.isnt that a range rover in the dubai desert?

Originally Posted by Rtech

If everyone were to be scientific about things, poor enzo would have been forced to shut shop and team up with Toyota to build Camry's a long time ago.

Perhaps he should've, because the Ferraris are known to be temperamental. If he had done so, he and his cars may have been so much better off for quality. As it turns out, hype commands a higher price than quality so he didnt do too badly either.

[typeOnegative]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

As it turns out, hype commands a higher price than quality so he didnt do too badly either.

It's not hype Steer. It is image. And there I don't know if a Skyline stands against the Prancing Horse.

[RX135]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

RX 135,,,first read my mail properly.... Now, if there is something technologically so advance yet looks like a hearse van yet costs a fortune, man they need help!!! If you believe highest level continuity of curves/surfaces makes that car sell, thats not right at all...in that case they can build or source a small airplane fuselage fit it with 4 tubeless tires(value addition) and call it a ROLLS ROYCE car??? man you gotta be kidding if you say hand crafted are better...rather they are prone to human errors which machines dont yet people pay a bomb...why?? You know it now...RR's are status symbols and not technological marvels brother...Vtec's are...!

You said they are not engineer's car and hence, I talked about technology and shape design that goes behind it, as an example. If you say they look like horse cart, what can I say on that? Go and tell Roll Royce owners all around the wordd that their car is a horse cart Or, Check out that RR Phantom in Mumbai in person.
And about hand crafting, with proper tools, you do achieve far more precision than production systems. I am a mech. engineer and I perfectly know what I said. e.g. Best camera lenses in the world are hand ground and not manufactured by high precision machines. If you think VTec packs more technolgy in a car than a RR, I am dumb struck.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

It's not hype Steer. It is image. And there I don't know if a Skyline stands against the Prancing Horse.

Its very easy to create an "Image" from "Hype", especially in this Kaliyug. I'm not kidding -

The "leader of the free world" is living proof as to how people can be deluded.

A war was fought and a country razed to the ground - all based on an image created by hype and careful orchestrated media support.

Cricketers continue to make fools of us match after match - thanks to hype generated out of past records and meaningless statistics.

I digress, but the point is not to get too carried away by this 'image' phenomenon.

[typeOnegative]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Its very easy to create an "Image" from "Hype", especially in this Kaliyug.

I know. Over the years a Ferrari has come to symbolize something. So if you have the money you will prefer to flaunt a Ferrai no? Who will notice if you drive up in a Lexus when others are driving up in a Ferrari?

But it has to be accepted that a Ferrari is a fine car. There is no denying that. It is not meant for commuting and picking up the groceries, but it does do a good job of allowing one to show off and put in those bursts of speed nevertheless.

It is the same reason people will continue to buy Bullets and Swiss watches when a Hero Honda and a Casio can do the job as well if not better.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

It is the same reason people will continue to buy Bullets and Swiss watches when a Hero Honda and a Casio can do the job as well if not better.

Tell me about it! My partner bought me a 'swiss watch' since he couldnt stand the wonderful titanium cased Citizen on my wrist. I now carry the instruction manual in my laptop case so that I can set the time correctly every time I travel (which is like every 4 days)...

Unbeknownst to him, I still carry the Citizen and besides my mobiles also double up as time pieces. Whats the bloody fuss, I wonder?

To be honest, I'm suspect to hype in one area of special interest too. I collect 'Rare' whiskeys, most of them carrying legends that are made up by very creative writers. I do the whiskey trail in Ireland and Scotland quite regularly and end up spending ridiculous sums of money to buy hyped up country liquor...

[typeOnegative]

*LOL* Image my friend. Image. What will the other person think of me. That's all. But hey, you do have a good friend.