[RoadTiger]

I assume the actual design in flesh wouldnt be too different from the renders, given the launch fairly soon.

Styling is spot on - contemporary, stylish, not too busy, clean lines - I mean, just compare this to the Alcazar in terms of design - and its like an A+ vs a C on the design (no offence to Alcazar owners).

The fascia - with its sleek grill - is not very bold unlike the Seltos and the Hector plus that have a more macho character - but looks fairly nice. Hope we have LEDs all around.

The rear looks clean with strong character lines - maybe slightly bland - but is a lot better than most of the competition.

The dashboard and display design is unconventional - wonder if the glossy black type of finish extends all the way to both ends.

Overall looks like a job well done on the styling front. Wait to see what they've done on the interiors - including third row space. If they dont screw that up, they make have a real winner on their hands in the Ertiga to Innova SUV/MPV space

[pseudo_coder]

If they manage the space well and provide a decent 3rd row, I will book this at launch (instead of my current booking of XUV700). The MPV segment is waiting for disruption.

[CarguyNish]

Just one question to Kia Motors India.

Are you giving us a Safe and Secure Kia Carens ?

If Yes,

Well, you have an absolute winner in your hands. This car does tick most of the boxes even before it's launch, oops sorry before it's unveil.

It does look good in the above Teasers, will come loaded with features, will have good interior quality like other Kia cars, will be powered by Good pair of engines (1.5 NA/1.4 Turbo/1.5 D) with range of (iMT/MT/IVT/DCT/TC) gearbox.

I expect Kia to optimize interiors and practicality to justify MPV tag. So, IMO, interior packaging and tech features will be the USP of this car. If Kia has indeed learnt from the mistake of Seltos and if they do value us and improve structure and give us a stable car, I am sure this will sell in good numbers, infact it may become a best seller in its segment.

Kia if you are indeed reading this, the Carens is the perfect car to undo all the mistakes you did just by taking us granted.

Is anyone looking at this Carens as a large 5 Seater ?

[manpreetsj]

Originally Posted by CarguyNish

Just one question to Kia Motors India.

Are you giving us a Safe and Secure Kia Carens ?

Is anyone looking at this Carens as a large 5 Seater ?

Since Carens is based on same platform as Seltos, I doubt it will perform any better in NCAP safety tests.

However, if Kia adds ADAS, it may improve rating from borderline 3 to 4? NCAP experts may chip in and confirm if this makes sense.

Kia for sure knows how to design sporty cars with all the bling. I was in love with Seltos and was on verge of booking GT, but the safety ratings was a big deal breaker!

Also, if by any chance safety has been improved (Co.'s claim shall be taken with pinch of salt!!) I will be looking at this car as a large 5 seater, with limited/no use of 3rd row. Still, will wait for 5-6months to get independent confirmation on how it compares to Seltos in safety.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Stupid stupid stupid name. No up to date urban man will want to be seen in a ‘Karen’. Kia better pull off a Tata (Zica-Tiago, Gravitas-Safari) and change the name before launch.

I am surprised by the choice of name too. I used to believe that Kia have some sort of a convention when it comes to naming like :
Cerato, Cadenza : Sedan
Carens : MPV
Sonet, Seltos, Sorento : SUV

So I was expecting a S going by the silhouette as why wouldn't they market those looks as an SUV in a world moving towards them but seems like I was wrong.

[Venkatesh]

Scoop : Kia Carens could get 1.4 liter turbo petrol engine option with manual 6 speed as well as DCT automatic. It will also get drive modes, paddle shifters as well as traction modes.



Source

[CEF_Beasts]

Kia Carens variant details out, will be offered in; L, LX, EX, EX+, TX and TX+. Some of these variants will be further divided into trims. L : HTP / HTM, LX : Premium, EX : Prestige, EX+ : Prestige+, TX : Luxury, and top of the line TX+ : Luxury+.

Top variant of Carens will get a 10.25-inch touchscreen infotainment system with support for Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. It will also be getting a range of internet connected smart features via UVO connectivity suite. Some key connectivity features include stolen vehicle tracking and immobilization, geofence alert, remote access, AI assisted voice commands, find my car, vehicle health report, and maintenance alert.

Other key features include wireless smartphone charging, sunroof and digital instrument cluster. In terms of safety, the MPV will be getting rear parking sensors, 6 airbags, ABS with EBD, electronic stability control (ESC), hill start assist, and 360° camera. Advanced Driver Assistance System (ADAS) features could also be on offer.

https://www.rushlane.com/kia-carens-...-12420261.html .

[rpm]

Originally Posted by manpreetsj

However, if Kia adds ADAS, it may improve rating from borderline 3 to 4? NCAP experts may chip in and confirm if this makes sense.

Not an NCAP expert, but ADAS doesn’t affect GNCAP scores under the current protocol because GNCAP doesn’t evaluate it. ADAS will probably help with Vulnerable Road Users and the Safety Assist evaluation you see in other NCAPs (like Euro NCAP, Latin NCAP, ANCAP, etc.). I checked GNCAP’s newer protocol which will come into effect next year, and from what I can tell, ADAS wouldn’t affect GNCAP scores from 2022-25 as well, because the pedestrian protection tests seem to only include the passive safety aspect.

[manpreetsj]

Originally Posted by rpm

Not an NCAP expert, but ADAS doesn’t affect GNCAP scores under the current protocol because GNCAP doesn’t evaluate it.

In that case only structural improvements via use of more ultra high strength steel and hopefully other required changes to get better NCAP results will help gain trust of those who value safety. With current ratings and flaws in Seltos, it makes Carens unattractive from safety perspective.

Any idea whether Alcazar has better/improved structure vs. creta/seltos? I know platform is same, but given that Alcazar has longer wheelbase and slightly modified structure, did they use this as opportunity to resolve structural issues? "Unstable" body shell rating of Seltos needs to be addressed.

[rpm]

Originally Posted by manpreetsj

In that case only structural improvements via use of more ultra high strength steel and hopefully other required changes to get better NCAP results will help gain trust of those who value safety. With current ratings and flaws in Seltos, it makes Carens unattractive from safety perspective.

Contrary to popular assumption, UHSS (Ultra High Strength Steel) is not a necessity for getting a high frontal offset test score. The Latin Creta which scored 15.57/17 in Latin NCAP had an all HSS (High Strength Steel) structure. That score puts it in potential 5-star category for that specific assessment protocol (Latin NCAP 2015), though it ended up getting only a 4-star because Hyundai didn’t bother making passenger SBR standard, nor did they seem interested in sponsoring a side impact test. See relevant post (Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?) by BHPian RSR. Please do note that the Creta tested in Latin NCAP was LHD, while Indian Creta is RHD. Even leaving that aside, we can’t conclusively use Latin NCAP results for the Indian model even if the body weld / chassis construction diagrams happen to be the same. Relevant post about that here, by BHPian ron178.

Originally Posted by manpreetsj

Any idea whether Alcazar has better/improved structure vs. creta/seltos? I know platform is same, but given that Alcazar has longer wheelbase and slightly modified structure, did they use this as opportunity to resolve structural issues? "Unstable" body shell rating of Seltos needs to be addressed.

I do not have access to the body weld diagrams for the Alcazar, but BHPian RSR in his analysis of platforms underpinning different Hyundai and Kia products noted that Creta and Seltos appear to be built on different platforms.

Originally Posted by RSR

As far as the platforms are concerned, there are a lot of differences between the 2nd generation Creta and Indian Seltos. From what I've seen, the 2nd generation Creta appears to be built on an improved version of the 1st generation Creta's platform {which itself is a slightly modified Elantra (MD) platform}.

Despite saying the above, I simply refuse to speculate on the Global-NCAP rating for the 2nd generation Creta. Wait for the test to be conducted to know its rating.

Here is another post comparing the chassis diagrams of the Indian Seltos and Creta, by BHPian travelpanthi. (Note: SP2i is Indian Seltos; SU2i is Indian Creta)

Originally Posted by travelpanthi

Similar comparison between Indian Seltos and Hyundai Creta 2020.

Attachment 2085698
Attachment 2085294
Attachment 2085295

Here is a comparison between the first gen Creta and the second gen Creta, by BHPian RSR.

Originally Posted by RSR

First generation Creta (GS):

Attachment 2057572

Second generation Creta (SU2i):

Attachment 2057573

Considering these, I think extrapolating Indian Seltos’ crash performance to the Indian Creta seems futile. As to what the Creta, and by extension, the Alcazar would score in GNCAP, is really difficult to say. An actual crash test is needed to conclusively answer these questions. Until then, I’m not sure how buyers are supposed to make sense of an ‘unrated’ Creta’s crash performance. Logic would say to steer clear of unrated cars, but it isn’t always possible to put that in practice. Sometimes the best car that fits all our requirements happens to be unrated or poorly rated. What the best course of action in such a case should be, is best left to the one making the purchase.

[Mafia]

Originally Posted by Venkatesh

Kia Carens rendered based on the silhouette from the teaser.

Source : Rushlane

I too assumed the old Kia Carens will be launched. It was phased out in the middle east a few years ago.

I was not a looker and was a very generic vehicle that looked it was built to a cost.

The renders are surely much nicer looking and that comes down to what the launch price will be. My guess the base models will start off at 12 L ex-showroom.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by manpreetsj

However, if Kia adds ADAS, it may improve rating from borderline 3 to 4?

Originally Posted by rpm

I checked GNCAP’s newer protocol which will come into effect next year, and from what I can tell, ADAS wouldn’t affect GNCAP scores from 2022-25 as well, because the pedestrian protection tests seem to only include the passive safety aspect.

There is a high possibility that it may be part of an updated Safer Choice Award or perhaps introduction of Global NCAP Advanced Awards.

The new protocol is very loosely based on 2016-19 Latin NCAP protocol, and Latin NCAP then had separate Advanced Awards for Pedestrian Protection (essentially for passing GTR9), AEB and multi-collision braking.

However, the upcoming Global NCAP protocol already includes GTR9 as a requirement for the higher star ratings, so maybe there will only be an award for AEB and possibly multi-collision brakes. I'm not sure what else there could be - whiplash, maybe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViaB714neBU

Latin NCAP Advanced AEB test on the 2019 Corolla at 0:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttyPxlUEINo

ADAC multi-collision brake test on the 2019 VW T-Cross at 0:17

On a related note, I have a small feeling I now know why Mahindra sponsored an AEB test on the XUV700. Perhaps it'll be too much trouble to have another car shipped to Germany next year?

The problem with the Kia Carens is that if its frontal performance is anything like the Seltos it will be hard, if not impossible, for it to score an award. I don't know what criteria Global NCAP will use for my hypothetical 'new' Safer Choice Award, but Latin NCAP Advanced required that the car score five stars for adult and child protection.

The Kia Seltos' frontal offset score out of 16.00 was 7.03 and for the purpose of this calculation I'm going to assume that the Carens scores similarly, and I'm neglecting the chest deflection criterion differences. Now, under the new protocol, let's assume the absolute best case scenario: a full 16.00 for side impact, passing pole test requirements, meeting ESC and head protection fitment rates, Kia recommending a CRS (I'm laughing as I imagine this) and performing well in the vehicle-based evaluation and dynamic test for children (now with side impact, mind you), passing GTR9, scoring 1.00 for the front seatbelt reminders (I believe the Seltos doesn't get rear SBR, please correct me if I'm wrong) and let's assume the difference in the lower performance limit for chest compression still keeps the chest score orange like it currently is (since a brown chest would disqualify it from SBR points).

Then the Carens' hypothetical total score would be 24.03 neglecting any possible reduction because of the revised chest criteria, which would have been in four star territory but not enough for five stars anyway.

This itself might likely disqualify it from scoring an award.

But there's another catch:

6.4.2 Relationship between points and stars for frontal and side tests
In order to avoid the indescribable situation of a vehicle performing very poorly in the frontal or side tests, with a difference of scores in front and side above 35%, the car will have its Adult star rating reduced by one star to show that do not provide similar good all-around protection.

So, even in the best case scenario where all those requirements are met (which I think is very unlikely) I don't think even the adult star rating could improve from the current 3 stars, under the upcoming protocol despite credit for side impact, let alone any awards for AEB. Here I'm assuming that by '35%' they mean 35% of 16.00, but even if they mean 35% of the lower score, the star reduction is applied anyway.

Realistically, it could be much lower. Without side airbags cars can show a wide range of side impact performance, from crossing capping limits to scoring a full 16.00. The only way to find out how the Carens would perform is for Global NCAP to test it for side impact. Not to mention, even my assumption of similar offset test score as the Seltos might be wrong. While highly unlikely IMO, it is possible for Kia to have made changes (improvements, hopefully) just like they did with the RHD Carnival in Australasia. Interestingly even those changes were for footwell rupture and pedal displacement - which is where even the Seltos lost most of its points. Personally, I highly doubt they have made changes since Hyundai Motor don't seem to engage well with NCAPs in emerging markets worldwide, but you never know. The market response to high-rated cars in India has also been phenomenal compared to other emerging markets.

Originally Posted by rpm

Not an NCAP expert

Really? Then I'll refer you back to this post (Tata Nexon: Global NCAP’s first 5-Star Indian car) and ask you to reconsider.

Originally Posted by rpm

I remember you telling me that it may be a part of the safer choice awards, but if I’m not mistaken (please correct me if I am), safer choice award doesn’t confer any additional points to the total score, right?

That's right, it doesn't. You're perfectly right in your conclusion that AEB would not have any effect on the star rating. What I wanted to check out was BHPian manpreetsj's theory of the star rating improving. While I disagree that the star rating itself would improve due to AEB, I was trying to consider another case where the star rating could otherwise improve and the model could then get some form of credit for its rumoured optional AEB system. It's an extremely off-topic rant and doesn't end up answering BHPian manpreetsj's question, nor does it add anything valuable to your conclusion. It's just an alternate possibility I was considering.

Originally Posted by rpm

the pedestrian protection tests seem to only include the passive safety aspect.

In any case, based on what I can see with the Corolla, it looks like at least Latin NCAP assessed only interurban AEB and not pedestrian AEB, but I'm hoping Global NCAP addresses the latter too considering its high relevance to Indian roads. The fact that they tested the Mahindra XUV700's pedestrian AEB (albeit with a static dummy pedestrian) makes me optimistic.

On another note I hope this model gets standard ESC like the Hyundai Alcazar.


About the news, I'm seriously baffled. As if the Seltos' variant distribution wasn't confusing enough for the mango man like me to understand, I have no idea how I'm ever going to decode this jumble of Prestige and Luxury option packs. Wasn't Prestige a variant name for the Hyundai Alcazar?

I see Kia pulling off a VW here by borrowing a variant name from a sister brand - VW recently borrowed Skoda's (and Honda's!) old 'Elegance' name for the updated Tiguan.

[rpm]

Originally Posted by ron178

There is a high possibility that it may be part of an updated Safer Choice Award.

The new protocol is very loosely based on 2016-19 Latin NCAP protocol, and Latin NCAP then had separate Advanced Awards for Pedestrian Protection (essentially for passing GTR9), AEB and multi-collision braking.

However, the upcoming Global NCAP protocol already includes GTR9 as a requirement for the higher star ratings, so maybe there will only be an award for AEB and possibly multi-collision brakes. I'm not sure what else there could be - whiplash, maybe?

I remember you telling me that it may be a part of the safer choice awards, but if I’m not mistaken (please correct me if I am), safer choice award doesn’t confer any additional points to the total score, right? I had thought about including this bit in my initial post, but then left it out because of uncertainty around the safer choice award in general.

Originally Posted by ron178

Really? Then I'll refer you back to this post (Tata Nexon: Global NCAP’s first 5-Star Indian car) and ask you to reconsider.

Are you sure about this? I can play this (Global NCAP crash tests | Broken down & explained) game too.

Originally Posted by ron178

That's right, it doesn't. You're perfectly right in your conclusion that AEB would not have any effect on the star rating. What I wanted to check out was BHPian manpreetsj's theory of the star rating improving. While I disagree that the star rating itself would improve due to AEB, I was trying to consider another case where the star rating could otherwise improve and the model could then get some form of credit for its rumoured optional AEB system. It's an extremely off-topic rant and doesn't end up answering BHPian manpreetsj's question, nor does it add anything valuable to your conclusion. It's just an alternate possibility I was considering.

I asked because I wasn’t reasonably sure myself, but thanks to that extremely off-topic rant, we now know who the real NCAP expert is.


PS: Extremely detailed write up about about the hypothetical scenario. In my opinion, it is a value add to the thread (and forum). Rarely do we see someone who has enough knowledge and understanding to dissect not only the current protocol, but the upcoming one as well.

[Venkatesh]

Kia Carens wolrd premiere tomorrow at 12pm

Watch the unveil live here

https://youtu.be/ISzBqlf7o2k

[Venkatesh]

Is it the Kia Carens rear revealed in new spy photo?



From teaser



Source : Rushlane spylane