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Originally Posted by Parth Oomphy Sorry mate, but I tend to disagree with you on many points here.
Firstly getting the sedans out of the way: definitely a person looking for more GC will not think of sedans if he/she really wants that GC. I live in Delhi NCR and I regularly encounter roads which are super bad and especially in this monsoon season, even some SUVs tend to crash into steep bumps (which aren’t visible when roads are flooded with water). There’s a reason sedans like superb aren’t sell well in front of SUVs and why Indians are loving SUVs More than anything else. So it’ll be foolish to suggest a sedan to a SUV buyer when he genuinely needs that GC instead of driving dynamics on his regular day commute (practicality is a thing my friend, you yourself bought Kodiaq Scout). Also, Every time I encounter such roads, I thank myself for not buying a car like Superb over Karoq or Octavia over XUV 500. Piece of mind & confidence of going anywhere w/o fear of getting your car stuck or damaged is a luxury sedans can’t provide (I have had such experiences with my Ameo TDI, which has same GC as superb and has much shorter wheelbase , that’s why I’m speaking from my experience. |
Agreed with your point on bad roads but you are forgetting Bangalore roads are known for speed breakers that sedans shudder when they see them. I own a Corolla Altis as well and need to be careful but it has seen a lot of bad roads without issues. The reason for getting the Kodiaq was not necessarily ground clearance but because the Superb had the DQ200 and I was under the incorrect assumption that the Superb 2L TSI would go up in price. I also never expected the Sportline to be so well priced. I also had one quirky requirement of all black interiors.
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Secondly, About the Kodiaq, I think it’s a station wagon more than a SUV. It’s propositions are seriously off and it looks like a van to me (& I know I’m not alone, many have complained about it’s looks). IMO, Karoq looks much better with well proportioned stance.
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Yup styling is indeed subjective and everyone has their own perspective. There are many that think the Kodiaq is station wagon esque and many that think otherwise. It isn't trying to be an Endeavour so anyone buying it already knows that they are not getting a proper box on wheels.
The Karoq also has equally differing views on design. Many say it looks well proportioned and an equal number say it lacks presence and especially the rear looks chopped off abruptly.
In the end it's all about perspective and how you look at it. Someone buying an iPhone 11 Pro Max buys the largest iphone for the screen, camera and top end features because he doesn't want any compromises. Whereas a buyer buying an iPhone 11 will say he got better performance than the Pro Max at 70% of the cost and the Pro Max is a waste of money when you can get a mini Iphone with similar features for much lesser.
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Also, talking about drivability of Kodiaq due to more torque: I’m Sorry to say that but I didn’t find it to be adequate even for the cities as there’s turbo lag below 1500-1700 rpm (typical TDI motor) & due to merge 150BHP power on a 1800kg Wagon, Kodiaq does feel slow & heavy (while karoq is way more fun when chucking around corners as it has better dynamics & feels agile/nimble due to higher power to weight ratio & lesser bulk).
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That's kind of strange cause anyone I know who has driven it including our official review says otherwise. Performance is adequate and it's kind of similar with the Karoq imo. For the size it deserved a bigger engine. Also, the cheaper T-ROC is quicker than the Karoq by a second. Most reviews say the same as well. If you want better performance go for the T-ROC, the Karoq is reasonably brisk but not as quick. A nice review here in which the reviewer misses the torque of the Diesel in the Karoq:
Again it's about individual perspective. I prefer the torque vs revving the engine for performance. I will agree with you on the fact that being lighter and smaller it is more agile and handles better than the Kodiaq. However the T-ROC does that even better at 5L lesser.
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About DQ200 reliability: I have been using it on my AMEO TDI and no issues at all (Even after our driver driving it most of the times, & you know how they abuse the cars). I think one of cases or past horror stories should sway prospective buyers to change their decision otherwise.
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Not every Dq200 is destined to fail. There are many who are happy with their Polos, Ventos, Ameos and OCtavias and many who have sworn not buy another VW DSG again. It's all about risk appetite here and for me reading on the forum as well as knowing so many people with DSG failures, it was something that would haunt me everytime I drove a car with DQ200.
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Also I think, when people buy 5 seater SUVs, they look for city commutes more than backseat space. Owners mostly drive these themselves. While cars like superb are more towards chauffeur driven (so it makes sense for them to offer more rear space). I recently bought a Endy 2.0 Titanium plus for “space and long touring needs”. I think people looking to buy the 7 seater SUVs buy them for the rugged charm (Butch looks), go anywhere capabilities, great ride, long distance cruising comfort & space. That’s the reason Kodiaq didn’t sell that well in India as it does lack many of the above points when compared to it’s rivals.
While a premium 5 seater self driven car like karoq makes much more sense for cities (over say creltos, as they are anything but premium & luxurious).
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Yup your points are valid for buying Karoq, Superb and Endeavour but when you want all of the above in a single car and don't want to buy all 3, the Kodiaq is the all in one. Luxury like the Superb, not as big as Endeavour for driving. Handles more like a car than truck. Can go further than FWD crossovers but not necessarily needed all that 4x4 proper hardware for proper offroading.
You have basically given the exact reason why someone would go for a Kodiaq over the Endeavour+Superb+Karoq. It's 3 cars rolled into 1.
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So what I’m trying to say is that Kodiaq doesn’t fit anywhere:- it’s not capable or big enough to qualify & compete with “proper” ladder on frame SUVs which offer the price to size ratio and rugged appeal which Indians Look for in this segment.
- Nor does Kodiaq is small enough for a middle-aged owner (like my dad & many others I know) to drive himself in the cities in comfort and luxury (it’s unnecessary to carry the huge bulk of Kodiaq for this purpose when something like Karoq can do the job much better).
- Nor does the Kodiaq has driving dynamics & performance of sedans for enthusiasts like me, which Superb/Octavia or even 5 seater SUVs like Karoq/Troc offer much better than Kodiaq
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All valid points but it does a bit of everything. Hence it's like a jack of all trades. If I wanted the performance and dynamics of a sedan, I would go for a Superb/Octavia but if I wanted the ruggedness of a SUV, I would get Fortuner or Endeavour. However if I wanted a bit of both I would go for the Karoq if my budget was strict 30L and I was ok to compromise on space. But if my budget was 40+, I would anyday get the Kodiaq since it was more SUV than Karoq and closer to Superb in luxury vs the Karoq.
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I know you own a Kodiaq Scout and I have nothing against it. I’m happy it suits your needs very well & that you are loving it. But I think you are arguing here more as an owner and not as a “TeamBHP reviewer” (& personal Bias’s are natural, I don’t mean to offend you at all).
I think different people have different choices and in cars too, there’s no perfection. No single car can Satisfy everyone’s needs (as they are so varied). So it’s better to buy car based on YOUR specific purpose, if that’s clear in your mind, you’ll never regret or make the wrong decision.
I know My frequency just doesn’t match with yours. Nothing wrong in that. I appreciate your views.
Cheers!
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Yup as I mentioned in the beginning, its different perspective vs needs for all. One might have different needs than others and budgets as well.
However I would like to correct you on the fact that it's not about arguing as an owner vs a member. I have been on the forum long enough and have owned various cars and written enough reviews to not be close to being biased and call a spade a spade.
However I only replied here when I saw facts were incorrect and there was a bias from your side. I preferred to reply and correct those facts. As a member for 15 years I don't think I need to post on a thread with bias considering I have not done so for so long.
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Originally Posted by Parth Oomphy I found Karoq to be the best 5 seater SUV under 30L (be it comfort, features, looks, luxury, space, etc). If I want to go off-road, I’ll buy a ladder on frame SUV with proper 4x4 nonetheless. I tested compass, harrier, Tucson, Creltos & Troc in this segment. |
And the people who got the Kodiaq cause it's the most luxurious SUV under 40L. IF the budget is 40L why would someone opt for a smaller crossover when he can get the Kodiaq.
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Originally Posted by Parth Oomphy I know some of the Kodiaq owners come to Karoq’s post to check out the smaller sister & then they find my posts which presumably “criticise” their car. So they try to defend their car. But this isn’t the case. Don’t take me wrong. Whatever I’m saying is based on my experience with the cars. I’m not saying that it’s “THE FACT” or something like that. It’s just matter of preference, needs & taste I guess. |
I think you need to stop repeating this in every post. The only reason for me to reply here is to ensure there is no biased posts and as of now your posts are close to being fanboy and biased. As a member I can only tell you friendly that your posts are coming off as biased in every thread related to Karoq like the Superb, T-ROC, Creta, which is why you attracted my attention after seeing your posts.
Would suggest you enjoy the car like how everyone here does rather than justify why your car is better than the Kodiaq, Superb, T-ROC, Creta, Seltos and Audi Q3.