[dragracer567]

The only way Porsche has any chance of competing in India is if they start CKDs atleast for the Macan and the Cayenne. If Range Rover and Maybach can be assembled in India, why not Porsche?

[2000rpm]

There was an article on team bhp on the price to size ratio, which I think the Porsche doesnt tick. Otherwise we Indians are buying the Innova at 30+ lakhs on road.

Gareeb kisko bola re!!

Maybe he hasnt seen the sales and service network map for Porche India. India's rich are present across cities as well as tier 2 towns like Chandigarh, Ludhiana, Aurangabad, Ahmedabad, Surat. Their presence is in few selected cities only.

[sgm]

Originally Posted by wheelguy

“We have an action plan in place to overcome the price perception challenge. However, we would not be able to share our exact plan. But we are sure, we will see the results", added Porsche India Director Pavan Shetty.

Source: ET Auto

Voted Yes
The luxury car segment in India itself is like 1% of the total car sales here and in that, the segment costing north of 80-90L OTR will be very small. Porsche has a really tough road ahead in India, to pick up more sales numbers with the current models and customization options but they can survive under the VAG with minimal growth.
The Germans, Volvo, Jaguar and Land Rover sales is around 30k unit in an year and Porsche has just 1% of that.

[2000rpm]

Originally Posted by sgm

The Germans, Volvo, Jaguar and Land Rover sales is around 30k unit in an year and Porsche has just 1% of that.

Wouldnt this be true globally? I always thought that Porsche wanted to position themselves like that, in the same league as super cars.

[IRideScent]

They have ultimate driving machines, yes... but their marketing survey team is just opposite!

Just by comparing basic figures they have concluded this report and now going to change their advertisement strategy. While I don't agree, but it can bring some numbers solely on having more presence in south India and in north.

Indian middle class is happily spending money on Kia Seltos and MG Hector but that's it! Value for money proposition ends there. At that price point they get enough features to compare with the German luxury trio. Just look at the VAG group, they have good products for the actual middle class, yet they are struggling for obvious reasons.

[dark.knight]

Lexus's India entry electroshocked me into another realm when it came to prices.

For once and for all, the Maseratis and Porsches (both many leagues above Lexus) seemed reasonable price wise. Heck even a Rolls-Royce Phantom is reasonably priced in comparison.

Porsche is a brand name, like Lamborghini or Ferrari. Porsche will cost more than the "big three" for sure, even if with an inferior or equivalent platform.

[V12Doc]

Porsche should realize that even though their entry price points are decent, the entry point cars are barebones, to make them luxurious often the price goes up by 30% to 50% due to the necessary options you need, I was looking to buy a cayenne 2 years back and the feature I wanted put the base model in the 1.8cr ex showroom, Why buy a cayenne when you can get a GLS for 1cr on road or range rover for an equivalent price

[doctorque]

There is another problem. Porsche dealers are loosing big money. Porsche has unrealistic expectations from dealers with regards to the dealership space & interior, workshop space, inventory etc. Reasons above and some mean that dealerships across the country have continued to shut down as it is almost impossible for the dealers to survive with norms set by the brand.
The deals thrown by the big trio also means the consumers expectations in terms of deals on Porsche cars is even higher which cannot happen. Porsche dealers have minuscule volumes and they just cant do the kind of deals the big trio can do.
A city like Mumbai has not had a Porsche dealership in one full year and there is no news of one coming up. Times are really tough.

[reignofchaos]

A Porsche in India is a money pit. Overpriced CBUs that cost an arm and a leg to maintain. Why should I pay 1.2cr for a loaded Macan with the same engine that one gets in an Audi S5 that costs 70 lacs. The only quasi reasonably priced Porsches are 4 cylinder that lack their boxer engine. Why even bother!

[Sunil2307]

I really do not know what he was thinking. But it will be interesting to see what his action plan is.
Porsches are definitely more expensive. They just need to take a look at their own website for proof.

[car love]

To add to this is the extraordinarily frightful service and repair costs. A person i know hit his Cayenne on the left side at quite a high speed while climbing up a ramp on a highway. The front axle was sheered off at the left and there was body damage but not much. It didn't look too bad visually. The price quoted for repair: Just 20L

[mathranik]

I own the Porsche Macan R4 in India, and use it as my primary car. When we were moving back to India earlier this year, I was contemplating between the GLE, Velar, X5 and F-Pace, working with a INR 70L budget or so. Macan was nowhere in the picture, but I stumbled upon a review and decided to give it a go. I have been a Porsche fanboy since 25 yrs now, though!

As pointed out by fellow members here, Porsche in India hasn't necessarily priced the products incorrectly, as much as kept it premium, owing to the following reasons :

- The just-arrived Indians go for the Merc-BMW-Audi trio (entry to mid level) and the HNIs love their RRs & top-end Jags / Trio range. Porsche doesn't have a chauffeur-driven people pleaser and hence the volumes don't warrant a local assembly. CBUs automatically mean higher pricing.

- From what I know, to avoid complicated homologation, the CBUs have to be imported at a certain $ threshold. Hence, the option list is long (and almost mandatory, to a bare-bone vehicle) which takes the price further up.

- Porsches are designed around the driven and not the passengers, which usually means that the creature comforts that are associated with a typical 60L+ car are at times missing in them.

- Mid and top-spec Porsches are the ones imported, and thus the higher price-point too!

I specced my car with some options such as the Air suspension, Sports-chrono, electrically adjustable seats, Bose audio and Alcantara seats and the OTR for an outgoing model in Ahmedabad was INR 82L. Some would say, that isn't a lot of car for that kind of money, but one has to get behind the wheel before saying that.



The picture above is of Bera, Rajasthan where the Macan effortlessly climbed a slippery cliff, at its maximum raised GC of 227mm, without skipping a beat. The same car does 0-100 in about 6s, has the smoothest transmission of the lot and looks a million dollars (Subjective). Expensive? Relatively, yes! But, priceless too.

Trivia - 65% of Porsche owners in India are repeats.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by mathranik

I own the Porsche Macan R4 in India

- The just-arrived Indians go for the Merc-BMW-Audi trio (entry to mid level)

If you mean, guys who moved from overseas like you, I won't know much but whatever I have experienced with the guys coming back, they try to go for value for money products and most of them settle with Toyotas. But if you meant, guys who have recently got success, I agree, they tend to go with German trio or LR/ Jaguar. But, many of the guys who got success as early as the last decade do not necessarily become a Porsche customer. Why? is something Porsche needs to find out and that won't happen with some random online surveys. They need to listen to prospective or lost customers and then try to make changes internally. Here, they are trying to sell with an attitude, we are Porsche, come to us if you want else stay away.

From what I know, to avoid complicated homologation, the CBUs have to be imported at a certain $ threshold. Hence, the option list is long (and almost mandatory, to a bare-bone vehicle) which takes the price further up.

No, on the contrary, if you are getting vehicles at less than 40,000 USD and with 3000 cc on petrol and 2500 cc on Diesel, you pay 60 % against 100 % customs duty. That's the reason, Boxter series and Maccan are relatively priced cheaper but you can add only up to a few lac of options.

http://www.siamindia.com/economic-af...8&pgidtrail=20

I specced my car with some options such as the Air suspension, Sports-chrono, electrically adjustable seats, Bose audio and Alcantara seats

Your car was from the outgoing model. Sometime before it was to be faced out, Porsche launched it with a special edition which included a lot of options included as standard. They do it regularly when they change the model. You can't get the same things at that price on the new Macan. This is exactly what I have told Porsche dealerships multiple times, they must have India specific Packages. We don't need or use the Driving assist or lane change etc. At least give us a Rearview camera and a reasonable Dashboard that feels nice on a 1,8 Cr Porsche.

I will suggest you go and check out the new 911 and compare the quality of the interior of the standard interior with your Macan and then probably with GLC. Now, they can very well tell that it's a sports car and that interior should be the least of the worries But they need to listen to the Customer. If I want to use a 911 in Delhi traffic every day, I need not just a nice Audio but also Ventilated seats and some nice leather/ headliner

Some would say, that isn't a lot of car for that kind of money, but one has to get behind the wheel before saying that.

I got a chance to drive 992 at a Porsche event at Budha and per-chance had driven M cars same place a few months earlier. It's a fact that Porsche gearboxes and the overall chassis are far superior but in real-world conditions, BMW & Mercedes come very close.

65% of Porsche owners in India are repeats

That usually happens with most luxury brands. Even though I had some unpleasant experiences with BMW, I am still sticking with the brand. I came of buying close to picking a Porsche very close 3 times previously, from 2009 to 2019. Paid advance also twice but backed out. For me, the most important factor is the service/ spares. BMW/ MB with their service and extended warranties give so much confidence. And the total number of their service centres - 6 is a Joke that despite the fact that they came here almost 15 Years back.

[mathranik]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

If you mean, guys who moved from overseas like you, I won't know much but whatever I have experienced with the guys coming back, they try to go for value for money products and most of them settle with Toyotas. But if you meant, guys who have recently got success, I agree, they tend to go with German trio or LR/ Jaguar. But, many of the guys who got success as early as the last decade do not necessarily become a Porsche customer. Why? is something Porsche needs to find out and that won't happen with some random online surveys. They need to listen to prospective or lost customers and then try to make changes internally. Here, they are trying to sell with an attitude, we are Porsche, come to us if you want else stay away.

I meant, the latter - recent success. In addition to what you've said, it is also a matter of what consumers want from a car of that class. An all-rounder would most likely be a car of their choice.

No, on the contrary, if you are getting vehicles at less than 40,000 USD and with 3000 cc on petrol and 2500 cc on Diesel, you pay 60 % against 100 % customs duty. That's the reason, Boxter series and Maccan are relatively priced cheaper but you can add only up to a few lac of options.

http://www.siamindia.com/economic-af...8&pgidtrail=20

You're correct here. The options get limited for the Macan.

I will suggest you go and check out the new 911 and compare the quality of the interior of the standard interior with your Macan and then probably with GLC. Now, they can very well tell that it's a sports car and that interior should be the least of the worries But they need to listen to the Customer. If I want to use a 911 in Delhi traffic every day, I need not just a nice Audio but also Ventilated seats and some nice leather/ headliner

As I said above, the breadth of Porsche's range is limited, save for the Cayenne / Panamera, and even those two are driver-centric. 911s would, at best, sell in low double-digits and remain to be just their anchor product.

I got a chance to drive 992 at a Porsche event at Budha and per-chance had driven M cars same place a few months earlier. It's a fact that Porsche gearboxes and the overall chassis are far superior but in real-world conditions, BMW & Mercedes come very close.

The Ms and AMGs, yes. But who do I peg the Macan against, for driving experience that the Porsche completely nails? Porsche is not a marginal luxury-car player in India because it's over-priced - I believe, it is more so because of the lack of versatility in their line-up. If the Cayenne was priced at INR 85L instead of 1.10 Cr, would people pick it over the GLS / Velar / Q7 / X5 / Z7 ? I have my doubts.

And the total number of their service centres - 6 is a Joke that despite the fact that they came here almost 15 Years back.

Chicken and egg, I believe. For the meagre number they sell, a wider network would mean idle capacity. In Ahmedabad, not the flag-bearer of Tier-2 cities, they satisfy my needs. In fact, I once had a flat on the Ahmedabad - Udaipur highway, near Himmatnagar which is about 100 kms from the Ahmedabad service centre, at 11pm (Did not have the jack, as the car had come back from spa a day before - my bad), and they had someone attend to me from their RSA in 30 mins flat. This is via their VW network. For more complicated stuff, they send you a flat-bed and a replacement vehicle (Again, from the VW family) very prompt. I know, it is not the most ideal scenario, but this is a conscious purchase I made, knowing the facts.

Maybe I am an outlier - my garage has a Mini Countryman JCW & Ducati Scrambler - none of the three being bestsellers in their segment, and in fact offer very little car / motorcycle for the money. But, at the end of a drive / ride, I come back smiling.

On the original topic - Can Porsche do better? Definitely! Would they, given the overall market dynamics? Most likely, not, because it would still not make P&L sense.

[Tushar]

If anything, Porsche takes pride in its level above placement. The bragging rights of owning a Porsche are heavily linked to its exclusivity, because, let's face it, buying an Audi, BMW or Mercedes-Benz is no longer seen as the big deal, it once was.

When you think Porsche, the parallels drawn are closer to Ferrari, Lamborghini or Aston Martin (it is 100% certain that with the Porsche Cayenne Coupe Turbo, they're trying to offer it as a more cost effective alternative to the Lamborghini Urus). And there are many reasons why Porsche has this "out of reach" perception:

- Discounts: By what I've heard/experienced, Porsche doesn't do discounts. Luxury car buyers by and large expect and get discounts heavy enough for the amount saved to buy another car altogether. It always makes me wonder what the point of luxury car launch prices is because it's a matter of weeks before stories of "bought with x lakh off" pour in.

- Dealer reach: A h-u-g-e portion of luxury car buyers are based in semi-urban/rural India. If they can't reach you or even know where you are, you're not getting their money. This also branches out into another problem - brand recognition. In the Indian context, brand Porsche's either got customers who know the brand and their cars inside-out, or people who have no idea who/what Porsche is. It doesn't matter what the price space is, most people buy what everyone else does. So if you're surrounded by "marsadeez, chaar bangdi or beemdamlu" cars, Porsche won't even show up as a thought. This is the same challenge Lexus faces in India.

- Nature of sale: Porsche sells their cars as direct imports. While the price isn't the biggest deterrent, telling an HNI that he/she has to wait for 3 months to get their car is hard. This also links to the discount matter, because these cars are direct imports. it's rare for a dealer to have any just lying around in inventory, ergo, no discounts to clear stock.