[Turbohead]

If this is actually going to cost around 30-35 lakhs, the Octavia VRS will suddenly become a value for money car with good space, big boot and almost 77% more power. The BMW X1 will then appeal only for those who want badge value and some suv looks. The BMW simply doesn't offer any value or exclusivity, something which luxury owners demand.

Now only if Skoda realises the potential and increase the VRS allocation for India.

[dragracer567]

Thing is, BMW has been selling 3 cylinder models for while now. I think even in the 3 series, the 316i is a 3 cylinder. We really have to come to terms with this downsizing trend since even the next gen A class sedan and GLA will probably be a 1.3 litre turbo.

And I guess if BMW could survive the 330i and 530i being downsized from straight six to four, I don't think this should be too much of a problem.

[ash22]

1.5 count for X1 is not a bad decision. But instead of 3 cylinders, They could have opted for 4 cylinders. Refinement levels will get a hit with (1.5) 3 cylinders.

[Asish_VK]

When People are questioning the choice of 3 Cylinder engine in a Tata Altroz, BMW comes up with a 30+ lakh SUV with a 3 Cylinder engine

1.5L engine size is digestible, but a 3 Cylinder engine in a luxury car , especially a BMW is hard to accept (Psychologically) . Hope it is a fantastic engine in terms of NVH and drivability.

[nasa_hubble]

So they are looking to sell their coachwork to people who don't want their engines. May add some units to the topline. It will find takers at the right price point.

[Hemicuda]

3 cylinders in a BMW= Dark Ages?
I really dont think so that is the case here.I recently helped a female colleague TD a Venue (3cyl) and the car was marvellous for its intended usage. I did give her this hint that it is a 3 cylinder and so there are the inherent flaws. But for her as it was a transition from an older swift it hardly mattered. All that mattered was SUV(esque) road presence, easy to drive, loads of features and an upgraded status and style statement.
Similarly I had a friend who had bought a top end Petrol polo around 2014 . The car overall was good but the engine especially had received a lot of flak for being 3 cylinder, under powered etc.I had driven a 1.6 polo before and had liked it that time and was very sure that the 1.2l 3 pot motor would be a disappointment. But when I sat in the car as obvious it felt pretty much the same from the inside and the engine if you ask me was not all that bad. Sluggish yes, but still it was a polo,with its decent European styling, solid build and most importantly it was not a Maruti or Hyundai. Which was exactly what my friend wanted.
But the question may ring in . Why exactly BMW need to do this? Well we all have read how BMW has taken a hammering with Tesla trumping them. So i guess it is their way of getting back market share from the bottom of the pile. There is still a huge gap between something like the Jeep compass(top end) and the X1 which needs some filling and BMW would do a good job if they reach there first

[NiInJa]

Wow, so the last battle of IC engine cars against electric powered ones will be fought with three cylinders ! I see this becoming a norm in affordable petrol cars in the next few years, four cylinders will be offered as a premium considering environmental factors.

Don't think I will ever afford to buy a BMW car, but as an avid enthusiast and one who always admired their cars for engines and dynamics, this one comes as a real bummer. Might as well plonk the 1.5 i-Vtec from Honda.

[n:CorE]

A compact SUV that went from a "driver-focused" longitudinal front-mid mounted RWD layout to a "good for your piles" transverse-mounted FWD and powered by a 1.5L 3-cylinder petrol engine.

Redemption for this engine lays only in the fact that an iteration of this same motor can be found in the back of an i8 (albeit part of a much more complex powertrain).

Downsizing is here to stay, I guess I still haven't made my peace with the fact the BMW now makes FWD cars.

Urban driveability in something that makes Max torque of 220 Nm @ 1,250 rpm would be adequate for the uninitiated. There is a (bigger?) market for slower, less exciting, cheap to run but expensive to buy cars. The priorities of the badge crazed folk are misaligned from us lot - great quality interior, tech toys, and a smooth ride take precedence over pure driving pleasure.

Looking at the bright side - the more BMW sells this FWD crap, the more profits it has to develop a better M2 Competition Pack.

[dark.knight]

Good time to ask what luxury truly is :

Is it a longstanding luxury brand called BMW with a 3 cylinder, old school torque converter automatic, with relatively conservative features, but above average build quality, but high costs of maintenance and repair at 40 odd lakhs (a huge amount for what is on offer).

OR

Is it a KIA Seltos, which is newer, not proven yet BUT has every luxury feature on offer like HUD, BOSE music system, connected features paired to a large screen, sun-blinds, proper 4 cylinder turbo petrol paired to a 7 speed dual clutch box, and with reasonable maintenance charges and reliability (since KIA tops reliability charts worldwide these days), at 22 odd lakhs. Safety features are on par too with 6 airbags, ABS & EBD.

Both brands have 3 letters each but the similarities end there. BMW is shooting themselves in the foot with their FWD, 3 cyl engines and antiquated user interface. Sure they are still nicer to drive (though this 3 cyl engine will reduce motion grunt and increase noise grunt), but is that 10% extra feel worth 85% increased cost?

What is luxury anymore? I can differentiate between luxury homes and budget ones.. but here the cheaper cars seem to offer so much extra at a lesser price that in this era where cars are becoming passè and increasingly, people save their well earned money to buy them the BIG 3 are getting a bit ridiculous in their confidence. To top it off, BMW interiors don't exactly scream luxury.. this coming from a former fan.. their panels and fascia rattle, creak and groan after 3-4 years. Audi and Mercedes have much better interiors though.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by dark.knight

Good time to ask what luxury truly is :

What is luxury anymore? I can differentiate between luxury homes and budget ones.. but here the cheaper cars seem to offer so much extra at a lesser price that in this era where cars are becoming passè and increasingly, people save their well earned money to buy them the BIG 3 are getting a bit ridiculous in their confidence. To top it off, BMW interiors don't exactly scream luxury.. this coming from a former fan.. their panels and fascia rattle, creak and groan after 3-4 years. Audi and Mercedes have much better interiors though.

In my humble opinion, luxury has never been about features, reliability, or ease of maintenance across segments.
Be it Clothing, electronics (VU TVs vs Sony/Samsung; iPhone vs OnePlus, etc.); Real Estate (at least in Mumbai); and even automobiles.
Look at Mercedes, the number 1 luxury brand in terms of sales - they command premium pricing in most segments, and more often than not have the least features and average engines compared to their peers.
Luxury isn't something that can be defined easily, but is more an experience - which is why rationalising it to make it appeal to your head over your heart is going to be super difficult.
The bmw does cost 80% more for similar size, similar performance, etc. as you rightly said - but the brand, sales and service experience, the looks, the build (not reliability, but the touch and feel), the interiors, and the drive play a big role in creating that appeal to the heart to make it justifiable to spend more on it.
If you can't - the japs, Korean and other Asian manufacturers are there to sway you into their showrooms. There are several corporate heads who are happy being driven around in Camrys and the like because of various reasons many of which you've covered.

That is at least true for one segment of the market. The other segment is more focussed on branding and status - and buys whatever strikes the best compromise between their heart & wallet - which is why the base X1 trims are more popular than the loaded M-Sport, why the 530D is a rarity compared to the lower trims, and probably even why audi manages to achieve half their sales volumes

That being said, I totally agree on your views on the X1 coming with the 1.5L engine. BMWs are bought by those who appreciate driving (which makes the 1.5L a no-go) / other virtues like safety or practicality (but there's enough competition for other virtues) or the other segment who will buy it provided they get a good deal (for whom the 1.5 may not be a deal breaker).

Just for the record: last year we picked up the Tiguan over the X1 - so I'm not trying to be a fan boy.
Apart from the better driving experience and brand - the Tiguan, Kodiaq, etc. IMO offer a better all rounded package as vehicles overall. And yes - one outstation trip with these vehicles and the Kia should really help convince the heart to dig deeper in the wallet.

Lastly - Mercs and Audi's too creak and rattle. From my experience, the Mercedes more than the BMW.
Just got to keep sending it in to get it fixed.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by dark.knight

Good time to ask what luxury truly is :



What is luxury anymore? I can differentiate between luxury homes and budget ones.. but here the cheaper cars seem to offer so much extra at a lesser price that in this era where cars are becoming passè and increasingly, people save their well earned money to buy them the BIG 3 are getting a bit ridiculous in their confidence.

It's actually very straightforward if I can draw an analogy with star hotels. There's thousands of people who want to dine at the Leela palace but can't afford the 5000/person buffet. Some may end up getting inside and order a tea and end up wondering what the fuss is all about. They may either show-off with their near and dear that they dined at the Leela palace or tell that it wasn't worth it. To each his own. It depends on what they wanted out of their experience.

Brands like Mercedes and BMW are consistently trying to expand their market and bringing down the features and lowering the entry barrier is one strategy. There's a market for people who want to chauffeur their business customers in a BMW. There's the salaried IT employee who's lifelong dream was to own a BMW. They may not really bother with the engine size and the market response confirms it. Also, the Mercedes A, C, CLA class cars have hit the bulls eye with their low spec engine but high spec interiors. I speak this from experience.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

In my humble opinion, luxury has never been about features, reliability, or ease of maintenance across segments. Be it Clothing, electronics (VU TVs vs Sony/Samsung; iPhone vs OnePlus, etc.); Real Estate (at least in Mumbai); and even automobiles. Luxury isn't something that can be defined easily, but is more an experience - which is why rationalising it to make it appeal to your head over your heart is going to be super difficult.

I agree with most of your points, BUT there actually is a massive performance gap between Sony and say VU or the other assorted Chinese televisions. Also Sony which might be a small premium (20-30% more) away, is a king of reliability, in my case atleast, same can't be said about others. The real-fake-luxury product here is maybe a Bang and Olufsen but again like the big three, they just charge a premium for nothing, 9 lakhs for a tv with a cheap LG panel in it.

Still, don't get me wrong, I understand luxury and I know you've a deep association with luxury cars.. I get it and I was a BMW fan myself but only until the E90 series, the F was overrated to the core in my view, the steering was nowhere close and the current G seems like a parody of what BMWs were.

I sat in maybe 2 dozen "luxury" cars in the used market as I'd briefly lost my mind when the last buying decision was being made.. ALL BMWs dashboards were creaking and groaning when pressed, it was clearly shocking to me, but even older Audis felt silent and very very solid. Minis were looking worn out and again, same creaks and rattles.. this completely put me away from BMWs and possibly luxury cars for life.

Originally Posted by kiku007

It's actually very straightforward if I can draw an analogy with star hotels. Some may end up getting inside and order a tea and end up wondering what the fuss is all about. They may either show-off with their near and dear that they dined at the Leela palace or tell that it wasn't worth it. To each his own. It depends on what they wanted out of their experience.

Again, I totally get your point and unlike most Indians implying that there is value only in cheap products, I'm saying nothing of that sort. There is a clearly different experience to be had with each step up in price, but only to a limit. Having stayed in Marriott, Hilton etc, they are truly worth the price (except during peak, surge times).

However that is clearly different from a barebones luxury car at still, a premium price, cars are the only aspect of luxury I haven't understood yet, because the cheaper competition have caught up so much while the "old three" are wheezing along, and lets face it while the Germans are made for handling, their rough road smoothness is a round figure of zero, except for certain models of Mercedes. Takes away a large chunk of the luxury experience right there.

But as you said, its just each person's opinion and this is largely an emotional purchase driven by feelings of want and not logic.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by dark.knight

Still, don't get me wrong, I understand luxury and I know you've a deep association with luxury cars.. I get it and I was a BMW fan myself but only until the E90 series, the F was overrated to the core in my view, the steering was nowhere close and the current G seems like a parody of what BMWs were.

I sat in maybe 2 dozen "luxury" cars in the used market as I'd briefly lost my mind when the last buying decision was being made.. ALL BMWs dashboards were creaking and groaning when pressed, it was clearly shocking to me, but even older Audis felt silent and very very solid. Minis were looking worn out and again, same creaks and rattles.. this completely put me away from BMWs and possibly luxury cars for life.

However that is clearly different from a barebones luxury car at still, a premium price, cars are the only aspect of luxury I haven't understood yet, because the cheaper competition have caught up so much while the "old three" are wheezing along, and lets face it while the Germans are made for handling, their rough road smoothness is a round figure of zero, except for certain models of Mercedes. Takes away a large chunk of the luxury experience right there.

But as you said, its just each person's opinion and this is largely an emotional purchase driven by feelings of want and not logic.

I am going to avoid going off topic by delving more into TVs (though as an end user, I find the VU to be 80% there at 50% the Sony's price); but it does bring up a valid point - the extra amount we are willing to pay for 'luxury'.

For me - spending 1.5Cr on an S-Class seems like a sheer waste of money compared to the E LWB; and same with the Seltos & X1 for many people.
At the end of the day - you've captured it well when you say it is a personal opinion, driven mainly by the heart.

Coming back to your reply - I am surprised to hear your experience with the BMWs & Minis. I actually found Mercedes to have higher wear & tear on the inside compared to both my BMWs. Audi is middle of the road - the A6 interiors still feel quite nice barring a few rattles which have cropped up after 8 years of city use.
Totally agree on the steering feel of newer BMWs - I find my C Class steering to be much nicer than that on my 3 series in terms of feel, and the E60 still remains a legend to drive purely because of the steering feel and dynamics.
Ride quality too is a miss on most Germans as you rightly said - mainly due to RFTs, and low profile tyres - though the stiffer suspensions also have a role to play.

[powershift]

I have experienced the X1 3-cylinder petrol as a passenger while traveling along with my friend who owns it. Honestly, I never felt any 3 cylinder-ish typical stigmas inside the cabin. Super smooth and refined feeling. That was the first 3 cylinder experience in a premium car until that point, rest were Alto, Wagon R etc. All the 3 cylinder stigmas are imbibed into our brain by the cheaper options so far. OEMs already know how to make it smoother and refined but restricted only for cost.
Leave about 3 cylinder in BMW, people tirelessly ridicule BMW for switching to front wheel drive.