[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by jeganatu

Yes! Because their export version has got 5 star rating. The Australian and USA's base version has got all safety like ESP and 6 airbags. Indian base version was compromised on the body shell and sheet metal? I know they only has ABS, 2 airbag in Indian base version, but cannot accept this unethical cheating!
[/url]

Its only recently I am made aware that US/South Korean Seltos is based on different platform than Indian Seltos. The case is exactly similar to C(K)aptur, however KIA India smartly did not mention about this or anything about the Seltos sold elsewhere.

[OSH]

I am of the opinion that it won't be a prudent decision to take back the 2019 COTY award now. The reason; it may show TeamBHP as a biased forum because not all of our COTY winners have got good ratings and taking away this one award will give haters a point to pick.

But here is something that we; genuinely safety conscious BHPians can do henceforth. As our COTY awards are driven by our own votes, from now on lets give priority to the 'indian spec car' which has proved itself in the crash tests or take into consideration the past performance of that manufacturer in such tests .

[SideView]

Can we modify the upcoming votings such that only GNCAP tested cars are placed on the voting list.

If they want to be eligible for team bhp user awards they should send their vehicles for testing.

Also add/update in each review the ratings.


We definitely need to support our homegrown manufacturers when they are putting in effort.

[VaidhiR]

Kia Seltos won the 2019 COTY. If someone wants to rescind its award because it didnt perform well at the GNCAP ratings, maybe it is time to look at the earlier COTY winners and initiate a poll on which cars dont deserve that award based on the most closely available safety rating at that point of time.

2019 - Kia Seltos
2018 - Mahindra Marazzo
2017 - Jeep Compass
2016 - Tata Tiago
2015 - Renault Kwid
2014 - Tata Zest
2013 - Ford Ecosport
2012 - Renault Duster
2011 - Mahindra XUV500
2010 - Ford Figo
2009 - Tata Nano

I wasnt able to get beyond 2009. So list could be expanded.

Also, the safety is just one aspect of a car. Comfort, sales and service, maintenance, features, customisability, engine, NVH, fuel efficiency, durability, insurance, ownership experience are other aspects. They are the ones on the top of my head. And there are literally a 100 more aspects to car ownership than safety and COTY voters should consider everything before voting.

So yeah. I don't think the COTY must be rescinded. I think our judgement scale has to expand to consider all aspects before voting. Which is why, every vote matters. But 2019 is over, and Kia Seltos has democratically won the COTY.

[fhdowntheline]

Moreover, just one type of a crash scenario in ideal conditions isnt a marker of occupants safety. Thats why all types of cars sell( including zero rated ones).
Someone sits in a Nexon and doesnt wear a seatbelt during a crash, good luck to him or her. Whereas in a Swift, if that occupant wears seatbelt, the outcome would likely be less unpleasant.

[The Rationalist]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Moreover, just one type of a crash scenario in ideal conditions isnt a marker of occupants safety. Thats why all types of cars sell( including zero rated ones).
Someone sits in a Nexon and doesnt wear a seatbelt during a crash, good luck to him or her. Whereas in a Swift, if that occupant wears seatbelt, the outcome would likely be less unpleasant.

Flawed comparisons, you have been putting forth same arguments to justify KIA in all threads. That’s just bias to the highest degree. What GNCAP does is objective testing, if you have some better ideas just mail them and similar crash rating agencies. How can you compare an idiot not wearing seat belt in Nexon with someone wearing seat belts in Swift, ever heard about Apples and Oranges?

I own a Ford Aspire which has better crash rating than KIA, still I’m very very scared in my mind and is looking for Nexon, Altroz, XUV 300 or Marazzo to come with a proper automatic. Being safer than KIA is not going to make me happy, I want the best possible for my family. If you don’t bother about your safety or your family’s safety, let it be. That doesn’t affect any of us. But please don’t put misleading statements on a forum like team-bhp, towards which people look upon to read objective unbiased opinions. For fanboys, there are enough avenues to go gaga elsewhere. Please spare us!

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

Flawed comparisons, you have been putting forth same arguments to justify KIA in all threads. That’s just bias to the highest degree. What GNCAP does is objective testing, if you have some better ideas just mail them and similar crash rating agencies. How can you compare an idiot not wearing seat belt in Nexon with someone wearing seat belts in Swift, ever heard about Apples and Oranges?
For fanboys, there are enough avenues to go gaga elsewhere. Please spare us!

First of all, I am neither a fanboy nor a Kia owner. Secondly, I have been asking for objectivity more than most on this topic, and I am not justifying the Seltos rating at all. The key issue is the difference between how we perceive the GNCAP test issue vs any other person who doesnt care for it much. What I am seeing however is a disproportionate amount of criticism towards Kia , whereas most others are equally culpable on this issue.
There will never be an apples to apples comparison in the real world in Indian conditions because mostly people in India never comply to the seatbelt requirement like they do in the other countries. Not a matter to be proud of, but it is the truth.

[The Rationalist]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

There will never be an apples to apples comparison in the real world in Indian conditions because mostly people in India never comply to the seatbelt requirement like they do in the other countries.

But your argument is flawed. You were telling a person in Nexon not wearing will fare badly and one wearing seat belts in Swift will be safe. GNCAP is not an agency testing someone’s stupidity! They can test only oranges vs oranges, a dummy wearing seat belt in Nexon and Swift. Now to be fair, a person buying Altroz or Nexon against something like Swift would be buying it for safety reasons, and he would be wearing seat belts more often than who buys an unsafe car. You can hold on to your subjective views, no issues.

[audioholic]

For heavens sake, lets stop going overboard with the crash test ratings and its effect here. TBHP awards are not some homologation certificates, crash test results or anything. It has just reflected peoples choice AT THAT POINT OF TIME when there was no crash test results or whatever.

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Secondly, I have been asking for objectivity more than most on this topic, and I am not justifying the Seltos rating at all. The key issue is the difference between how we perceive the GNCAP test issue vs any other person who doesnt care for it much. What I am seeing however is a disproportionate amount of criticism towards Kia.

Unfortunately this is how it goes in our society. First go gaga over the car and talk about its perceived safety before its even crash tested and after that, a complete outrage, which is purely emotional rather than trying to interpret the results, its effect and the difference it would make to a current owner, or what sort of a dealbreaker would it be and so on. Similar to a heartbroken lover who will go on an endless rant. Sorry guys, you can throw all your brickbats at me, but I would have expected a much more informative set of discussions ever since this issue came up and all I see is something else. Nothing prevents someone buying a five star safety rated car v/s a zero star rated car but his/her own decision. I would have been outraged if I were sold a car claiming its a five star rated car and then the NCAP proves it otherwise. If not, assuming/placing expectations at a manufacturer and then getting a heartbreak is plain stupidity. Its like how Royal Enfield Pegasus owners threw their bikes into the trash when there was some sort of a price cut/cheaper model with more features and what not. For me, the braking issue would be a bigger bummer than this 3 star rating. First the car must be able to stop, before we discuss about what happens if it doesnt.

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

There will never be an apples to apples comparison in the real world in Indian conditions because mostly people in India never comply to the seatbelt requirement like they do in the other countries. Not a matter to be proud of, but it is the truth.

Yes, and this is the absolute truth in our country. In the real Indian world, things are completely bizarre. Not only with seatbelts, but crashes do not exactly happen in India like how the NCAP or the manufacturer wants it to happen But thats a different case in say, the Europe. Accidents are far more categorizable to an extent you can publish annual reports of only a set of categories. Not the case in India. You can have a 10% offset frontal crash as well as a 100%. And you can have it with a set of pipes piercing the driver cabin and boring a hole in the drivers head. Anyway I will let the arguments continue and would not continue this discussion.

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

You were telling a person in Nexon not wearing will fare badly and one wearing seat belts in Swift will be safe. GNCAP is not an agency testing someone’s stupidity! You can hold on to your subjective views, no issues.

Well, I would say yes, on a relative scale. Unless you can prove it otherwise

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

But your argument is flawed. You were telling a person in Nexon not wearing will fare badly and one wearing seat belts in Swift will be safe. GNCAP is not an agency testing someone’s stupidity! They can test only oranges vs oranges, a dummy wearing seat belt in Nexon and Swift. Now to be fair, a person buying Altroz or Nexon against something like Swift would be buying it for safety reasons, and he would be wearing seat belts more than who buys an unsafe car. You can hold on to your subjective views, no issues.

Nothing is guaranteed as such in the real world behaviour-and that's my limited point. Lets stop this tete-a-tete for now

[giri1.8]

My flawed logic for this argument : if safety is the topmost priority for an enthusiast, then we shouldn't be having motorcycle section on team bhp to begin with.

We should also keep in mind that most of our dream super cars will fail at crash test or they remain untested.

[abhi7013]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

There will never be an apples to apples comparison in the real world in Indian conditions because mostly people in India never comply to the seatbelt requirement like they do in the other countries. Not a matter to be proud of, but it is the truth.

This is precisely the kind of thinking that the management at Maruti has and so do most of their customers. I just pray this chalta hai attitude doesn't cost lives to make people come to their senses.
So does wearing seatbelts justify having cars in 2020 with 0 safety ratings? What's the difference between the thought in this statement and that made by Maruti where they blame the govt shamelessly rather than improving their cars?

As said by someone earlier, harping on the perceived safety of a car is illogical before any kind of evidence and i do understand Kia's case. With the facts that were available to us at that point in time, it was a given as to why Seltos got majority of the votes. What i however don't understand is how Maruti can stand behind the kind of statements they make with regards to safety and pull in the govt everytime. Yes, the govt is to blame as well, but what are YOU as a brand going to do about it especially when you're the market leader?

[theAutomaniac]

Originally Posted by giri1.8

My flawed logic for this argument : if safety is the topmost priority for an enthusiast, then we shouldn't be having motorcycle section on team bhp to begin with.

Sorry to say, but your statement actually made me worried!

What in the holy god's name did make you compare the safety aspect of a commuter car to a motorcycle or a supercar??

A motorcycle is a vehicle of different class and we all are aware that the only way of being safe on a motorcycle is to ride safe as motorcycles cannot be made safer than their current safety level, but that is not the case with cars!

Maruti provides 4 stars at prices lower than the Seltos and let's not even talk about Tata or Mahindra!

We should also keep in mind that most of our dream super cars will fail at crash test or they remain untested.

On what basis did you make this assumption? You ever saw someone dying in a Lamborghini at 100kmph? No? They'd die in a Seltos!

Also, no matter how low a supercar might perform, that DOES NOT GIVE ANY JUSTIFICATION FOR LOW SAFETY RATINGS IN THESE COMMUTER CARS

[giri1.8]

What I said might look like nonsense, but that is just my view.

I just felt COTY tag need not be stripped just because of its safety rating. That would be like saying only 5 star rated car should deserve to be our choice. Which means we will have just one or two cars to choose from. Don't feel that makes any sense.

I am in no way to trying to defend kia. You can see my comment on another thread calling kia/Hyundai as blingcan. Out of 10 aspects that makes a car great, safety is just one of them, not the sole criteria to be considered, there even might be a 5 star rated car that has horrendous dynamics which can't be rated by any organisation.

[anb]

Some people speak and write so much about safety. But when it comes to reality, they purchase cars like Swift Dzire instead of Altroz or Tiago. That's the real problem.