[reppy]

Based on the market they cater to, Maruti should only be worried about one question -

'Kitna Deti Hai?'

[swapnil.awate]

About Maruti’s statement, if they are saying it then it has to be right! They have proven logic of many enthusiasts wrong including me! That need not be right but they understand market (read: large section of customers) better.

Regarding NA and TC, I prefer TC over NA on normal road application, as they provide good mid-range torque which translates into impressive roll on acceleration (20-80 kmph in 3rd gear and 40-100 kmph in 4th gear) and hence effortless performance. If turbo is mapped for low-end torque as well then it’s a bonus and further rewarding. However, if one drives in track like situation (higher rpm), the sheer capacity of engine is not sufficient to do that and it struggles on performance and economy front.

What I don’t like in modern downsized TC petrol is, they are 3-cylinder which is inherently unbalanced. Moreover, manufacturers are mapping turbochargers so as to match maximum power figures of their bigger NA sibling which results in extremely lagging engines. Whereas, with downsizing their best bet is to map turbochargers for low and mid-range torque to improve driveability. VW 1.2 and Fiat 1.4 TJet are examples of good TC petrol engines. Still they can’t match efficiency of TC diesel owing to higher compression ratios of Diesel engines.

Lastly transmission plays an important role to exploit what the engine has to offer.

[landcruiser123]

Forget about selling a turbo petrol of a model when the price is comparable/exceeding the price of a Diesel engine in India. That is exactly what MSIL tried to do. That being said, larger NA petrols are still favored by many. I know people in the US who still like their V6 engines over turbocharged I4s because of the torque.

All this debate will soon be irrelevant once batteries become more affordable.

[shibujp]

If anything Maruti knows it's customer base well. All it's cars sell respectable numbers. The RS does not. And neither did previous experiments like the Alto 1.1L. I am not sure I can fault a company for doing something that makes good business sense to it.

I feel that the biggest deterrent for the very few performance oriented models Maruti has introduced is the peppiness of the regular Maruti cars in comparison to the performance variants. Even the RS, is not so much an improvement over the regular Baleno. If you are not an enthusiast and push the car, that is. Compare it to the Polo TSI which looks like a bargain against the anaemic Polo 1.0L MPI. And I daresay the sales of the Polo GT TDI have fallen since the regular TDI gets the same 1.5 diesel in a not so lower state of tune.

Maruti's decision to introduce the 1.5 in the Brezza might be something to do with volumes. Having the same engine in the Ciaz and the Ertiga makes it much more cost effective than using the 1.0L which incidently has to be BS6 certified and is used by the RS which hardly sells in volumes.

What Maruti should perhaps do is plonk the 1.0L engine in the Brezza and sell it through the Nexa channel leaving the regular 1.5L for the Arena channel.

But the engine itself is a peach. After 50k of driving the RS, I still look forward to driving it. Much has been said about it's turbo lag but to me I have not really experienced it in the city. If you are in the right gear it pulls well. The driveability is just awesome. Much of my overtakes on the two lane highways in Kerala are in 3rd and 4th. And the rasp of the engine inside the cabin is just great. Easily one of the best engines Maruti has introduced in my experience. Will I put 1.5 lakhs down just for the engine. Hell yeah! I did. Mileage has never dropped below 12 kmph however hard I flogged it.

Drive on,
Shibu

[Karthik Chandra]

“What we understood from the customer is that he perceives a 1.0-litre engine as a 1.0-litre engine, and he perceives a 1.5-litre engine as a 1.5-litre engine, that is, as a bigger engine. He is not so clued onto whether it is a turbo-petrol or not. Of course, there are connoisseurs and there are enthusiasts out there, but there is a bigger audience which looks at the size of the engine as 1.0-litre, 1.2-litre or 1.5-litre. So, if a 1.0-litre turbocharged is also there, he will consider it to be a smaller engine and not having the necessary torque or the power to propel a bigger vehicle. So he will feel like that. So our analysis shows that he would much rather prefer a 1.5-litre compared to a 1.0-litre.” - CV Raman

Let's leave the turbo petrol and take displacement alone, if engine size matters, How does the Swift with a 1.3. MJD (1248 cc) manage to outsell Figo with a 1.5 TDCi multiple times over? Same with Baleno vs Jazz/Polo

How did Ciaz outsell City and Verna consistently with a 1.3 ltr engine? Competition in all these case have more power and torque too.

The avg. customer doesn't bother about the engine size & output - case in point = the Triber which sells well with a 1.0 ltr engine producing modest outputs. Yet Renault has a turbo version in the pipeline.

This theory is just to brush the lack of appetite for R&D under the carpet.

[BZ25]

Originally Posted by Karthik Chandra

This theory is just to brush the lack of appetite for R&D under the carpet.

Agreed. Suzuki needs to take some risks(from their perspective), especially in it's engine portfolio. The 1.0l boosterjet has been well received internationally, and in India all fellow compact SUVs offer turbo-petrol engines. The K15 is a good engine, but it will probably be just adequate for a fairly heavy SUV like the Vitara Brezza. Hopefully those running the bean counters at Suzuki reconsider their decision.

[amitayu]

In my limited capacity, I think the Maruti honchos are just crying foul!

I bought a Freestyle petrol, after test driving the Baleno and after owning a Ritz petrol for 7 years.

I chose a 3 cylinder NA engine over the tried and tested 4 cylinder K series. Yes, the Dragon is a bit slow off the block, needs to be driven at a minimum RPM for decent torque, but those are just minimal matters.

The Dragon series engine gives a whopping 12BHP extra when raced, and has some serious torques on offer!!

IF Ford can do this with a NA 3 cylinder pot, I do not see why others cannot.

I do not think buyers count cylinders. Yes, they do have initial concerns, but it is really a test drive that is the ultimate litmus test for any car.

The bigger point is how long Maruti plans to milk the K12 engine. It is already spread across Wagon R to Baleno! If they think they can charge a premium for a 3 Cylinder 1.0 litre engine on the Baleno over the K12 simply because it is new, I am glad they were proved wrong.

[chaturgaurav]

IMO Maruti is not entirely wrong in saying what customers in India want. Most of them do fall for paper specs.
A relevant post by @namanski on another thread where he explains his parent's choice of buying cars based on "looks, space, features and brand-value rather than how the car feels while driving." affirms Maruti's view on Indian customers. https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4702089 (Have you ever bought a car / bike without a test-drive?)

Having said that, customers awareness on the engine specs, power, driveability is increasing by the day. Maruti may not be able to hide under this pretext for long.

[devsoftech]

There are few brilliant turbocharged engines from my experience - VW 1.4 TSI. Turbo kicks in early at 1600 on the 1.4 TSI when the extra power is needed and the brilliant 8-speed transmission ensures that you can stay south of 1600 rpm and run like a NA engine to cruise/lug at highway speeds. The US spec'ed 2019 Jetta that I have owned got 45+mpg compared to their claims of 40mpg. The trick is to fall back to NA power band. I have applied the same learning on my 2020 GLE 350, and always met/exceeded manufacturer claims.

[Durango Dude]

Maruti has it's hands full with the AMT which haven't been exactly reliable by Maruti standards so they don't want to get into trouble with turbochargers failing. With the numbers they do, it's only good to see that Maruti doesn't want tech that would have them issuing "recalls" on a frequent basis. Baleno RS didn't exactly set the charts afire. Moreover Suzuki sees Maruti "strictly" as a cash cow, nothing more and nothing less and will milk Maruti dry with royalties for transferring tech. Suzuki's 'kei' cars would make more sense here in India but how many do we really have.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

Maruti has it's hands full with the AMT which haven't been exactly reliable by Maruti. Moreover Suzuki sees Maruti "strictly" as a cash cow, nothing more and nothing less and will milk Maruti dry with royalties for transferring tech. Suzuki's 'kei' cars would make more sense here in India but how many do we really have.

Yes I agree.
Maruti is absolutely serving the bottom of the pyramid which means the absolute MASS market customer (no pun intended here).

They would definitely prefer to sell and forget, which basically means minimal maintenance and upkeep and such after sales headaches and after sales complexities. Hence they keep their offerings far more basic in this market.

And yes, most certainly basis various reports in the recent past they seem to be having headaches with their AMTs and this is not something they are used to. Hence, from a “manageability” o point of view, they probably wont ever consider bringing in a mass market vehicle powered by a Turbo Petrol small engine, irrespective.

Probably because the mass market consumers may not be able to handle the Turbo Petrol engine properly in terms of knowledgeable care, usage, upkeep and maintenance on a day to day basis.

By sheer force of the sales numbers of Maruti, the resultant numbers of such turbo petrol cars that are likely to proliferate the market, automatically drives up the corresponding numbers of likely/ potential/ possible failures and the propensity for this to happen.

Quite clearly, it appears then, that we in this market, will never see the Dawn of Light in terms of the JIMNY and the SWIFT SPORT etc and perhaps the upper end Grand Vitara and similar.