[neil.jericho]

Pratap Bose was right on the money with everything that he said regarding the design aspect of the new launch by Bajaj. Strong words? Yes, but fair nonetheless, and an honest admission by one of the leading Indian design heads in the industry. Im sure they were unexpected by the Bajaj camp in this day and age of sugar coated niceties.

But if we look at how Mr Bajaj has retorted, it does appear that he was grasping at straws in his attempts to throw some shade at Tata. His initial sentences seem to be contradicting each other but what takes the cake is Rajiv Bajaj saying that he himself cannot speak for the quality of the new Chetak

This really doesnt seem like a war by any stretch of my imagination. A war of words would require two parties slugging it out on a fairly level playing field of sorts. In this case, the attempt to respond in kind, has unfortunately backfired. Rajiv Bajaj's retort has left the proverbial egg on his own face and continues to make himself come across as being very petty each time he gets quoted in the media. Im sure Pratap Bose had a good chuckle in the end.

PS - I remember the time when Rajiv Bajaj was hailed as the dynamic saviour of the Indian two wheeler industry. Young, charismatic and filled with passion, he was everything that the rest of the leaders of the Indian motorcycle industry were not. I will give him credit for driving the Pulsar twins project and making the budget performance category what it is. Without the original Pulsar 150 and 180, the Indian motorcycle industry would be in a very different place today. But in more recent times, things have changed and not for the better.

Originally Posted by avishar

Mr Bajaj has a snide remark for everything and for everyone. Now that comes with the territory, since he is (IMO) heading the best two-wheeler company in India. Bajaj has always moved with the times, innovated, is successful globally, is market leaders in creating product categories and in technologies offered. Bajaj’s clever acquisition history and strong brand building is absolutely opposite to that of Tata Motors, which should write the book of how to not run a car company.

While I agree with the rest of your post, I do feel that you are generous with your praise of Rajiv Bajaj being a leader in how to successfully run a two wheeler company. Yes, he was responsible for the Pulsar twins and their successful iterations and he did make the right decision to invest in KTM but in the long run, have there been more hits than misses?

• Pulsar brand is stagnant and diluted. The styling hasnt evolved for years, alternate models like the AS / NS get the stop start treatment.
• V series that was launched with a massive advertising budget has flopped and is now discontinued.
• Dominar has missed all of Bajaj's sales targets by a huge margin. The 2019 version is much improved but comes when the industry is in a downswing. Whether or not the poorly conceived and confused marketing campaign had to do with it has been debated on the forum. In the end, the numbers speak for numbers.
• KTM dealerships were not really bringing in the volumes until the 125 platform was launched. Even today, KTMs are well known to be filled with small niggles and maybe it was a corporate match made in heaven from that respect!
• Ive saved the best for the last. As you very rightly pointed out, Bajaj missed the mega scooter boom in India and continued to sit and watch from the sidelines for years while everyone else grew the market to unimaginable proportions and in 2019, prices! Imagine how much more profitable Bajaj two wheelers would have been if, at any point in the last 10 - 15 years, Rajiv Bajaj was willing to rethink his initial position on scooters in India and pursue the product development with the same vigour and passion that he had for the original Pulsar twins. Honda says thank you, Mr Rajiv Bajaj.

[vigneshnr]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Unlike 4 Wheelers, 2 Wheelers have very less Sheet Metals to differentiate themselves whilst being careful to stay relevant !

For that matter I can't re - imagine how different a 2 Wheeled Scooter can look from existing products and still cater to the preferences of an average buyer

In my view, amount of sheet metal or any other aspect is a problem. I think being creative is the problem
The design can have numerous expressions between 2 wheels.

[Reinhard]

I think the title of this thread should be changed to Pratap Bose vs. Rajiv Bajaj. Okay, Mr. Bajaj basically runs the Bajaj Auto group. But in reality Its just a war of the words between Mr. Bajaj & Mr. Bose in their personal capacities...Tata or Bajaj Auto have nothing to do with it. (No - don't actually change the title, current one makes immediate sense to a reader thanks to context.)

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

[*] Ive saved the best for the last. As you very rightly pointed out, Bajaj missed the mega scooter boom in India and continued to sit and watch from the sidelines for years while everyone else grew the market to unimaginable proportions and in 2019, prices! Imagine how much more profitable Bajaj two wheelers would have been if, at any point in the last 10 - 15 years, Rajiv Bajaj was willing to rethink his initial position on scooters in India and pursue the product development with the same vigour and passion that he had for the original Pulsar twins. Honda says thank you, Mr Rajiv Bajaj.[/list]

This is so true! Spot on. In fact - Mr. Rajiv Bajaj was asked multiple times since 2011 in press conferences if he will re-enter the scooter market considering scooters are in boom & Honda is making gold bricks for their showrooms!

He used to categorically reject the idea saying "Motorcycles are our core business & we are doing great. We will never be entering scooters again for foreseeable future".

And after having a change of heart - the scooter really looks like an old one. Okay - maybe they want to sell a "classic". But they should see how many Vespa scooters currently sell against the Activa, NTorq, Jupiter, Dio. If Mr. Bajaj is only looking for a niche market with "retro" tastes - then this design is fine. Otherwise IMO it really scores low on innovative design & imagination factors.

[payeng]

CASE STUDY on How To Burn Bridges

[veyron_head]

Tata has some of the best designs now. All their cars look Swell! Nexon is a 5 star safety rated car, for which design is an important element. Even the Indica was nothing like anything seen on the roads at that time. It would have helped Bajaj to think of something other than Design to blame Tata.

If I do an apples to apples comparison of four wheelers from Tata and Bajaj....Or....May be I won't.

[condor]

Originally Posted by payeng

CASE STUDY on How To Burn Bridges

Hardly. They both know not to get ruffled by such things. But a response was part of the game, and it came. They are anyway in different segments, and wont be staring down each other's neck.

Pretty much similar to what happens in politics or film industry.

[Cool_leo_guy]

Bajaj should refrain from talking about design. They make one product and beat the design to death for 20-25 years.

Also their updates are limited to redesigned clutch and brake levers year after year so that after a given number of years all their bikes have a number of different lever and other small part designs making maintenance and inventory control a nightmare.

And yes, New Chetak is a Vespa ripoff, not inspired but blatantly copied.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by Cool_leo_guy

And yes, New Chetak is a Vespa ripoff, not inspired but blatantly copied.

Well both companies are having many similarities, both cater hugely to the OLA/UBER scene, both are Indian and both are mediocre at best.

Bajaj with its autos, Qutes and Pulsars neednt have compared with TATA at all, same with TATA. Neither are each others competition. That being said these are just petty sandbox squabbles, and the leaders of both these companies will be happy to sit together and party, or protest against government against policies that aren't favourable.

The above are only my views. Let's not get hung up on brands so much that we don't let others call them out for their flaws.

[PrideRed]

Both companies had their fair share of success and failures. I don't idolize either of them and this is just good entertainment for me. That said being head of design division of Tata motors, Bose had no business commenting on Bajaj's product in a social media platform. Bose lost few marks in my books. Rajiv did what is expected out of him.

[Spals]

I feel the E-Chetak does look a lot like Vespa and I don’t think it’s an accident. The original Chetak had a round headlamp but was quite boxy and different from Vespa the same could have been done here. Bajaj wants to look like Vespa for some reason MR. Bajaj even sort of accepts this. May be this allows them to be seen as a classic premium offering and allow a modern sporty version to be developed on the same platform with KTM branding.

[giri1.8]

Having products from both the companies, I would say Tata folks better keep quiet Having a great design is far from what is needed to have good sales, in the end, product needs to satisfy customer's needs within their budget without any major flaws.

Both have products with few rough edges here and there, at least Bajaj showroom doesn't feel like government office. Bajaj too had QC issue with KTM alloy wheels, but almost no issue arise now a days.

In case of Tata, such things hardly changes! Many of us Tigor owners have had burning smell issue right from the factory floor, issue is both an Engineering and QC flaw as the it seems to be common with Tata cars having 1.2 Petrol engine(few nexon and Tiago owners reported it too)! Tata failed to provide any solution even after 2 whole years(1.5 for my car) and multiple visits to their service, they even have unethical practice of not opening a job card for such critical issues so that they can wash their hands off when problem arises.

Had to visit an private garage to find a temporary solution to this, will be posting it on Tigor related thread so that many owners can benefit.

[AspiringIndian]

At the outset, hello all - This is my 1st post on this forum.

As far as automobile design and generally running of an auto company goes, I have far more regard maybe the highest of regards for Mr.Bajaj than any other CEO of an Indian auto maker. Yes he is direct and does not mince his words but then look at his track record.

Starting off on the shop floor of Bajaj Auto he steered the company to become India's and world's (These are Mr.Bajaj's words not mine) most profitable company. They export 50% or more of what they produce, to almost EVERY country and not just the third world countries.

In contrast, what has been Tata Motors' history when it comes to design or vehicles ? First an attempt to ape Mercedes Benz during the Safari and Estate era finally that partnership ended in a divorce. That was followed by getting an Italian Design Firm to create the DNA of all vehicles that were built on the Indica platform and more recently their romance with JLR (Which might also end sooner than we think). Then there is the Nano failure and the realities behind keeping it running until Mr.Mistry blew the whistle.

On this background it might have been prudent for Tata Motors to have kept their mouth shut, I mean they are not even competing with Bajaj Auto in this space. So why would anyone want to spite Mr.Bajaj who has an impeccable track record of delivering products and profitability at the same time is beyond me.

[sureshkishore]

Mr Bajaj's dislike of TATA was fuelled by the quadricycle norms issue from 7-8 years back. His response to Mr Bose clearly is unfortunate.
He should go back to his design team make sure that they come up with products that do the talking.

[Sebring]

So those are the comparison shots, and the tweet that started this feud.

[thedragonreborn]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Pratap Bose's comments were rather heavy too as well - 'Sad day for Indian design?' No wonder Bajaj rebuked. IMHO - he needs to focus on their own work, and not get carried away with the initial success. Despite all the hype, Harrier is almost a flop and they are yet to make a vehicle that really sells 'well', when even new players like Kia and MG are able to crack the market.

All well, but the point of contention is about the design language. This has nothing to do with the quality, sales records etc.

Lancia and Lamborghini churned out some of the most gorgeous of cars, most of which had pathetic quality.

As far as Kia and MG are concerned, the Kia looks like an aggressive bull-dog, and the MG, a hearse from the side. Again, no reflection of their quality, cost, A.S.S experience or any such.