[sv97]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Especially when Creta SX and Seltos HTX are both equipped with Electronic Stability Control (ESC) and Vehicle Stability Management control (VSM).

Seltos HTX does not have ESC and VSM only the GT Line variants get them.

[iamitp]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Rollover is exaggerated on modern crossovers.!

Noted! But still hold 2 airbags against these otherwise excellent cars. I can't imagine driving peacefully through any of Delhi's intersection after paying 17 lakhs and knowing that there's nothing apart from the doors between me and a possible side-on collision with speeding signal-breaker.

I have literally seen a DTC bus ram into an i10 at the JLN signal, when the lights weren't working. Thankfully the bus wasn't going too fast and I don't think there was any fatality but these (lights not working; people jumping working lights at high speed) are everyday scenes in the Capital. Side/curtain airbags can be life-saving in these scenarios where you can be screwed due to someone else's negligence.

Kia and Hyundai, IMO, are playing an undignified game by forcing people to fork out for their top-most variants in order to get anything more than 2 airbags. Even the Honda City offers 4 airbags in VX variant.

[asitkde]

Originally Posted by GTO

• Low seating doesn’t make ingress or egress easy for my senior-citizen Mum. Crossovers have a distinct advantage here.

• Stability at 120 km/h & beyond is mediocre. Sure, straight-line stability is fair and there is no nervousness. But on any undulating sections of the expressway or dips on highway roads, it sure got bouncy with ample vertical movement. The bounciness is like that of any Asian sedan from even 10 years back. Or closer home, the earlier generations of the Honda City – this is something Honda needs to master as there’s clearly been no progress since the 4th-gen car in this area. Even city flyovers taken at speed bring that “light Asian sedan” feeling & bounciness. At high speeds, expressway crosswinds do affect it. I can tell you that the 2020 Creta has superior high speed manners (I recently drove it on the exact same roads).

• At high speeds, the chassis & suspension simply don’t match the potent petrol engine. Weird that Honda ends up in such positions = with the new Civic, the engine doesn’t match the chassis and here, it’s vice versa.

I have kept only the parts in my quote from GTO's post that are a bit of a concern for me.

We have a late 2012 make-year, 2nd iteration of 3rd generation Honda City. It still operates like new, only in the looks department it is starting to show a bit of its age. In the 2nd iteration of the 3rd generation, Honda solved the problem of bottom scraping by raising the ground clearance (and/or firming up the suspension a bit). Our car doesn't touch the road-bumpers, even the tallest and steepest of them. I expect the new 5th generation City to do the same, if not improve on it. Now we also have a second car, a VW Polo GT TSI of February 2017. However, the second car is not being driven at all, it has only about 11k kms in more than 3 years life. Hence I was thinking, let us sell them both and buy a new relatively larger car, that will partly be driven by a chauffeur, and partly by me - perhaps in less than a year or six months from now when the Covid dust settles, we could go for this 5th generation Honda city in its VX or ZX MT avatar.

But the above two issues are bothering me. The low position of seating is not a huge problem for me in the rear bench, but slightly inconvenient in the driver's seat. From your description, it looks like I also prefer a laid back and low position for driving, and I am 5'11". In the GT TSI it's never a problem though to get in or out. On the other hand, my wife is quite short, and she has trouble getting down from, eg. the Creta. Hence, the choice of a sedan seems more sensible for us.

Now regarding the high speed stability, any day of the week, I'd prefer the GT TSI over the City. There is simply no comparison. BTW, both cars currently have appropriately sized Continental MC5 tyres, and I'm very happy with them, despite not-so-encouraging reports on those tyres in the GT TSI thread.

@GTO, how many kms did the 5th generation City, you drove, have? From my experience of owning many cars in my life, I have seen that even the suspension has a break-in time - and it is usually a couple of thousand kms. I have never been a huge fan of the suspension of my 3rd generation Honda City, I usually like firmer suspension, and it is also not very likely that I am going to regularly drive at speeds exceeding 120 kmph, but still it is a matter of concern. I am just curious, can the suspension improve to an acceptable level with a bit of time? Or is it just my imagination or just a simple matter of psychology that I am thinking about the suspensions settling a bit after a couple of thousand kms?

Of course, 'acceptable' is a highly subjective word. I like to drive and I like good engines, and I think within my budget I have bought cars with two of the best engines at their price point. But an engine is not an isolated thing, it appeals with the total package. In any case, I am not expecting the City to have high speed stability in the same league as the GT TSI. It just needs to be acceptable.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

This right here is the bane of the new City. It was a trademark Gen4 problem and Honda hasn't fixed it. The bounciness and the constant vertical movement gets to you and causes motion sickness.

If I have to sum up the highway experience of the City (mine is 2018 ZX), it is "watch your speed".At speeds between 80-100 kph, the vertical movement isn't as pronounced at the rear. But the moment you go past 100 kph, you get the feedback. My mom wears a collar for her spondilysis. She has now developed a keen sense of speed inside the City without looking around. She immediately asks me " are you doing 100+ ? Because I can feel it" .
Interestingly, she never complains about speed in my Polo TSI. Inspite of its shorter length and wheelbase. My wife sitting next to me complains about high speed in the Polo more than inside the Honda.

Would like to add that while its ok to compare City with Vento and Rapid and then decry its high speed manners, lets not forget that the 5th-gen City also has superior safety package with 6 airbags and ESP in the top two variants.

[varghese_p_g]

Expecting a type r or Si from City is not right. The segment they are targeting is the family or even the chauffeur driven with a plush ride. From the comments above, seems they have got it spot on.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by iamitp

Kia and Hyundai, IMO, are playing an undignified game by forcing people to fork out for their top-most variants in order to get anything more than 2 airbags. Even the Honda City offers 4 airbags in VX variant.

True. Not only Hyundai and Kia, all manufacturers follow this model. Honda (and Toyota even better) has really done a great job by giving 4 airbags from the V variant. Just as Skoda has done a great job with the Rider's pricing, Honda's primary USP with the V variant is safety.

If at all Creta SX / Seltos HTX had standard safety features - it would been an easier recommendation.

[Aditya Gupta]

For those on the cusp of booking their cars, some benefits coming your way. Slight reduction in on road prices due to insurance related requirements:
https://www.carandbike.com/news/buyi...gust-1-2269624

[saisree]

Originally Posted by GTO

Spent the weekend with the 2020 Honda City. My quick & brief observations below:

Nothing short of a full fledged review and thanks for sharing the initial impression. When I started reading this post, It was like looking into my 10th class result. The subject is Honda and the reviewer is GTO.

Originally Posted by GTO

• SUVs are all the rage right now. If the C2 sedan segment wanted a representative to fight with the crossovers on its behalf, this car is it.

Honda won half the battle here.

Originally Posted by GTO

• Beautiful, FANTASTIC, delicious 1.5L petrol engine. This is the BENCHMARK naturally-aspirated petrol in India, no matter what engine size. You will ENJOY revving it.

• Diesel is the same. Great driveability, noisy, strictly average performance by segment standards. Wouldn’t be my pick, unless they offered it with the CVT (like the Amaze).

Absolutely!! and no questions on it. I wouldn't write off the Diesel engine as others say so. Driveability of this engine is a thing on its own. Driving in City traffic is a boon. It just goes on and goes on. Good mileage, light on pocket. Engine Noise can always be negated with some nice audio and shouldn't be a show stopper. I drive a Honda Jazz D and this is my personal observation and I believe who have a Honda D will have a similar observation.

Originally Posted by GTO

• The 5th-gen City is overall an evolution….an improvement, but not a revolution. Equally, I’ll say that it’s bridging the gap to the Civic. Does most things right and it’s easy to see why brand “City” is the default choice among sedans for families.

Spot on and I too had the same opinion. Honda's choice was to satisfy the masses and regain its top position. They knows 80 - 90% of the customers are running behind Bling and Gizmos and the only way is to add some tech and bling. Anyways, they had the Saree clad woman to justify the increase in length.

For the enthusiasts we have other options like Rapid and TSi's and for higher GC and road views we have the SUV's.

[Karthik Chandra]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

After reading initially impression, here is what I conclude. If you are on budget and still want to have fun, pick Rapid Rider or Vento Comfortline(with discount). If you want luxury, peace of mind and still want to have fun, pick City eyes shut! I can see the Verna already running to cover(TGDi is only the saving grace!). Ciaz has its own Maruti customer base.

Verna is the only one with a diesel AT + it's the best diesel MT compared to City.

It's the only one (currently) with a turbo AT too. Because of the sheer variety on offer -
1.5 NA,
1.5 NA CVT,
1.5 D MT,
1.5 D AT,
1.0 TGDi DCT

Verna is actually well placed.

[longhorn]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

If I have to sum up the highway experience of the City (mine is 2018 ZX), it is "watch your speed".At speeds between 80-100 kph, the vertical movement isn't as pronounced at the rear. But the moment you go past 100 kph, you get the feedback.

I guess then that this is the bane of Asian cars and more specifically Japanese ones. Ideally, when the vehicle gets longer, it should have a more planted ride, other things being equal. Heck, the WagonR is stable at 90 kmph on highways. Its gets twitchy beyond 110 kmph. A full size sedan should be rock steady at least upto 130 kmph. I guess it is the trade off for a more comfortable ride in the city(softer suspension).

[KPR]

A NA engine is the way to go for petrols. I don't find turbo petrols fuel efficient and practical for our Indian roads. Way to go Honda for sticking with NA .

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by KPR

A NA engine is the way to go for petrols. I don't find turbo petrols fuel efficient and practical for our Indian roads. Way to go Honda for sticking with NA .

+1

When it comes to all round competence - performance + fuel efficiency + reliability + low levels of NVH, there is no beating the 4 pots of Honda's 1.5 N/A and Suzuki's 1.2 N/A petrol engines in their respective segments.

[anish5225]

Short and crisp review. Many Thanks!

Originally Posted by GTO

See the rev limiter problem I mentioned:

Sounded to me like the engine crying for its dear life :-)

[volkman10]

Why we'd rather have the 1.5L NA engine over the 1.0L Turbo - Says this drive report.

There were 3 goals during the development of this engine:

Superior fuel efficiency over the previous naturally aspirated (NA) engine.
Enhanced low to mid-range torque.
Reduce 3-cylinder characteristic vibration.

Is it more fuel efficient? Only in theory

The 1.0-litre turbo engine in the Thailand-spec 2020 Honda City has a claimed fuel consumption figure of 4.2-litre/100 km. Meanwhile, the claimed fuel consumption for the India-spec 2020 Honda City, with a 1.5-litre NA engine, is 5.4-litre/100 km

In theory, the smaller turbo engine has better fuel economy. But as with all turbocharged engines, fuel consumption can vary significantly depending on driving style.

The turbocharged engine has more grunt ?

Prototype Honda Civic hatchback back in 2015 compared,


When it comes to power and torque figures, turbocharged engines have the upper hand. Peak torque (173 Nm) arrives at 2,000 rpm and maintains 90% level up to 4,500 rpm. The 1.5-litre NA engine only makes a measly 145 Nm.

Again, sounds good in theory. However, when we sampled the engine in a prototype Honda Civic hatchback back in 2015, he concluded that there was nothing to shout about.

It felt lethargic at low speeds and runs out of puff above 100 km/h. It works best at mid-range speeds from the good spread of torque.

What about the inherent 3-cylinder vibration?


Honda has actually done a remarkable job in reducing the 3-cylinder characteristic vibration. It remains quiet even from outside the car.

According to the research by Honda engineers, they’ve achieved this by reducing the weight of reciprocating parts and setting a crankshaft balance ratio that reduces vertical vibration at the engine mount points.



At low to mid-range rpm, there’s noise generated by the turbocharger and piping, not to mention the increased vibration in the low speed range.
As a 3-cylinder engine, it’s impressively refined. And here comes the but – it’s still not as refined as the naturally aspirated 4-cylinder counterpart.

Conclusion:

On paper, the 1.0-litre turbo engine wipes the floor with the 1.5-litre NA engine. It’s more fuel efficient whilst making more power and torque.

Having tested the 1.0-litre turbo, it didn’t translate those figures well in real-world driving. It felt lazy and it struggles to sustain high speeds. Plus, you can’t escape the inherent vibrate-y character.

As far as driving experience is concerned, it’s not an improvement over the 1.5-litre NA engine.

Added Info:

The 1.0-litre turbo is actually driven by a timing belt. Considering the perception that timing chain is superior to timing belt, still want that turbo?

Link

[51morris]

Originally Posted by GTO

Spent the weekend with the 2020 Honda City.

Great review of a brilliant car IMHO! Honda have knocked it out of the park with the new City, hopefully putting themselves on the top of this rather crowded segment. This new version of the City addresses almost all of the drawbacks of the past generation which gave competitors a free-run in this segment. Kudos to Honda for spot-on pricing as well.