[lazy]

After a few pages, this thread is going exactly as expected.

We are simply unwilling to let go of our shopping lists or VFM fascination or my-money-my-decision or whatever our justification is.

We are a free country, no one can force anyone to buy or not buy products that are available in the market for sale. But at the same time, just as our mannerisms/behavior reflect our true selves, the same can be said about the brands we buy.

Indian products aren't going to become world class without support from the market. It takes a country's people to build the country.

If everyone says "Indian products aren't my money's worth", well, suppose we need more humility.

regards
lazy

[tajender]

Well, if you consider it unpatriotic to buy a Chinese car, what would our government be by allowing these Chinese cars to be sold in India?

The fact of the matter is that our Presidential car is Mercedes and the car that carts the Prime Minister is a Beemer.

My suggestion is that let's be the enthusiast who enjoys the engineering marvels.

[devarshi84]

first, we need to ask ourselves, why only buying Chinese cars is considered unpatriotic?

Lets ponder over the following points.

1. How many carmakers are known to have stolen global patented designs, technologies and features illegally. Don't counter argue with the case of Mahindra as they have legally acquired the license to build Jeeps. The list of top 10 here will be as Chinese as the list of top 10 major smartphone makers.

2. How many companies are alleged to have stolen patents and technologies from the global brands they buy? Why did GM stop SAAB from going into Chinese hands (it ultimately did)? Why did South Korea accuse SAIC of stealing technology from Ssangyong?

3. How many countries can boast of single handedly taking over a majority market share in every segment they penetrate and killing the domestic industry?

4. How many countries can boast of killing competition through dumping in developed nations and debt traps in devoloping ones? They force technology transfer with companies from developed nations, how much technology have they transferred to Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Maldives or the Pacific Nations? All the companies growing on the Silk Route expansion are exclusively Chinese.

It was never about their political enmity or their quality or history. It is about their intentions deeply rooted through the Communist Party of China.

[libranof1987]

Make no mistake about how China will react. I remember this incident; China came out with such a strong statement just after there were posts on social media about boycotting Chinese goods during Diwali. I believe this was post Doklam. Imagine their reaction had it been official Govt. policy.

Amid calls from some quarters for boycott of Chinese goods in ongoing Diwali season , China on Thursday said any such move will negatively impact the India-bound investments from its enterprises and also the bilateral cooperation between the two countries.

China also asserted that any such boycott would not have much impact on its exports, but "without proper substitutes, the biggest losers of the boycott of Chinese goods will be Indian traders and consumers".

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/55096140.cms

Let's not forget our place in the world order, gentlemen.

Originally Posted by prithvibelli

I would like to provide a different perspective to this topic.

Exactly.

[blackasta]

In the age of globalization and multi country sourcing / supply lines, it is almost impossible for end consumers to selectively avoid items from one country.

How does one know that the TATA car does not have the RAM chips in it's ECU built in China?

Any company, if it establishes a factory in India, and manufactures items here employing Indians, should be welcome.

What we should avoid, unless there's no other option, are 100% manufactured items which we have to import as a whole, built in a different country. That results in net capital outflow.

[Sankar]

I cannot avoid a lot of things Chinese things which get into my life like for example mobile phones.

But a Chinese car is definitely avoidable because there exists other options. I would prefer Jap then Korean or Indian and after these three German, American and if no other option remains then Chinese.

Similarly I do not buy on ALIEXPRESS either. Never have never will.

[sleepyk]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Unpatriotic to buy Chinese? Doubt if buying Japanese, Korean, American, French, German, Czech or Italian would make us any more patriotic than buying Chinese.

If patriotism is the primary criteria - buy TATA Motors or Mahindra instead. I would say that is the right approach rather than targeting any particular brand for their country of origin.

Wholeheartedly agree with this.
Cars are cars, and only Tata and Mahindra are truly Indian.

If patriotism and Indian pride are a factor, then these two are the only cars that can be considered Indian.
When considering any other brands, engineering chops should matter more than country of origin imho.

On a related note, not even Tata or Mahindra cars are whole Indian... A lot of work, especially design, is outsourced to the UK in the case of Tata, and Italy-South Korea in case of Mahindra.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by lazy

If everyone says "Indian products aren't my money's worth", well, suppose we need more humility.

Yeah, I have a problem with that too. And well said too. After all, we are the same people who haven't learned to use helmets and road lanes.

On the other hand, I find it okay to say, "I buy a good product even if it is of foreign origin" and vice versa. So, in simple terms it has to be buying a product on its merit.

As far as I am concerned, I have very high regards for the Chinese goods and the things they make (whatever I know) are of very high quality in comparison with what we make in India. We might dismiss them as copycats, but it's a fact that we even import a 5 rupees blade from China. These are really hard working people that we are talking about.

[vharihar]

Originally Posted by blackasta

In the age of globalization and multi country sourcing / supply lines, it is almost impossible for end consumers to selectively avoid items from one country.

How does one know that the TATA car does not have the RAM chips in it's ECU built in China?

Any company, if it establishes a factory in India, and manufactures items here employing Indians, should be welcome.

What we should avoid, unless there's no other option, are 100% manufactured items which we have to import as a whole, built in a different country. That results in net capital outflow.

Valid point. But sourcing a part globally does not dilute the "Indianness" of a Tata or Mahindra. Just as it doesn't dilute the "Germanness" of a BMW (I'm sure they source some parts from outside Germany).

Lets remember, even when I source a part from somewhere abroad, it still calls for sizable expertise on my part to make sure I spec it correctly to that vendor. Often it involves a co-development/research/collaboration lasting over several years.

The way I differentiate is: Who gets to call the shots, for anything and everything?

One then realizes that its only Tata and Mahindra that are truly Indian, in the cars space. In the trucks space, you also have Ashok Leyland and Eicher.

In the case of Maruti, Hyundai, etc, the local arms can call the shots on *some* things, but for any big ticket items, the shots are called from their respective parent company in Japan, Korea, etc respectively. Therefore, I don't consider them Indian companies at all, by any stretch of imagination.

[am1m]

There was a Chinese (well...Oriental) guy in front of me at the restaurant today. He was wondering about a Thums Up can. I told him that it was a local cola and that it was "better than Pepsi". Still he made a joke about 'Thumbs Down'.

Should I have punched him in the face? Does that made me a patriot?! Coming to the defense of an Indian brand?! (Oh, but wait, isn't it owned by Coca-Cola now?!)

Jokes and sarcasm apart, I can't imagine a thread like this actually has traction. 'Patriotism' and 'tests' for patriotism are being used for everything and anything these days. Pretty sad.

Originally Posted by headbanger

Pay your taxes honestly buddy, keep your surroundings clean, obey law and order, do something around your immediate vicinity to make a difference to lives of poor people and last but not the least, drive safely obeying the traffic rules... The list is endless for us to show our sense of patriotism.

+1000 to this!

Originally Posted by hserus

Half or more of your dry fruits come from Pakistan and Afghanistan

Hahah! Well put! But sadly, facts don't get too much traction in the face of pop-patriotism.

Originally Posted by blackasta

In the age of globalization and multi country sourcing / supply lines, it is almost impossible for end consumers to selectively avoid items from one country.

Sensible!

[jassi_jeeper]

Certianly not. We are auto enthusiasts and we must weigh our options from that perspective.
I happily bought Royal Enfield riding gloves made in Pakistan!

[King_pin09]

Voted No.

To me trade is more of demand and supply than political equations. I would not mind buying a product that suits my requirement irrespective of the fact as to who makes it. I tend to buy what I need and what I can legitimately afford.

By allowing foreign products to be sold in India after including specified taxes, call it duty, custom, surcharge, cess or any other name, the Government has already addressed the question of national interest, through revenue generation. Any Indian citizen, who buys these products after paying all such taxes and surcharges et-al, is merely exercising his choice while staying within the ambit of statutory permissions.

[Miel]

I am simple guy who prefers a simple outlook. The way I see it, almost all of us are taking part in this thread via a "Made in China" mobile phone or laptop.
Or, let's put it in another way. If by some supernatural intervention all devices and systems which came from China were to simply disappear, then the world will come to a rolling stop. We are not just talking about mobiles, PCs, and toys. We are talking about all kinds of electronic devices, modules, components, intermediate networking devices, computer peripherals, HVAC systems, and this list goes on.

So, if buying Chinese is unpatriotic, then I am about as unpatriotic as anyone else.

[Pashin]

IMO, It isn't and shouldn't be. Personally, I would pick a Tata or Mahindra over the new MG any day, just love the recent line-up from both companies.

[Redline6800]

Originally Posted by King_pin09

Voted No.

To me trade is more of demand and supply than political equations. I would not mind buying a product that suits my requirement irrespective of the fact as to who makes it. I tend to buy what I need and what I can legitimately afford.

By allowing foreign products to be sold in India after including specified taxes, call it duty, custom, surcharge, cess or any other name, the Government has already addressed the question of national interest, through revenue generation. Any Indian citizen, who buys these products after paying all such taxes and surcharges et-al, is merely exercising his choice while staying within the ambit of statutory permissions.

Could not have put it better myself.

Voted No.