[SaiSW]

I don't like the way the spresso looks however if a customer decides it is this car that will do the most justice for his money, then no problems, I guess. His money, his choice.
Personally, I wouldn't touch this segment for obvious reasons and would rather take public transportation, but if I had to, I'd pick the new kwid.

Originally Posted by Simat

Attachment 1919719
This is from the Altroz thread, a car that have not been even launched yet! Is that bhpian not hurting the feelings of a future buyer, or a Tiago/any Tata owner who might be interested in buying Altroz?

Yes, I have noticed his post as well. Thought of reporting at first glance, then decided against it.

It's a simple recipe tbh, speak whatever you want, not caring whether it'll hurt somebody's sentiments and then say you are actually a 'X' company fan and have owned 'Y' car of said 'X' company, which justifies everything, I guess.

[VaidhiR]

To people criticising Mauti Suzuki for giving the general public this car.

1. Maruti Suzuki is in the industry to make money. Which means, if they want to release an SUV version of the 800, they are well within their right to do so. As consumer, you decide if you want to buy it or not.

2. Maruti Suzuki is an experienced Indian Car Manufacturer. They would've done their market research before releasing any car. They understand the needs and requirements of the Indian public. And if the market research shows that the consumers are open to this type of a car, then so be it. If it flops, it flops. Their fault. Not ours.

3. Indian public, for the most parts, care about 2 things - Mileage and price. Active safety and passive safety technologies are still very nascent in India. If we want quality and safety, in addition to mileage and cost, then we, as consumers, need to demand it. We have to make a stand and stop buying (*cough* boycott *cough*) blasphemous cars that have no regard to safety and quality. You know yourself what cars fall under this category. OEMs have been getting away by providing sub standard cars. Sub standard, in comparison to an equivalent car sold outside of India. Maruti Suzuki is not alone here.

4. Accessories list and features list are always a joke. A prominent OEM in India has "Rubber mats to ensure quality and pleasing interior appearance" as a feature. Another OEM suggested "Front cabin lights" as a feature. I have also seen "´Black coloured outer rear view mirror" as a feature. An OEM has to sell cars. And if the consumer is going to be asking questions about them to the dealer and/or OEM, they feel obligated to have them on the brochure.

5. If you feel violated and/or feel obligated to attack others (on this forum or otherwise) because someone else wants to buy cars that you dont like or approve of, then maybe its time to stop this keyboard warrior stuff and start spreading awareness. Share to the world what you feel. Obviously you feel something is wrong. If it is a genuine concern, why not share it? Maybe there are people who feel the same way and dont know where to start?

[Porschefire]

Woah! Are we really talking about "tolerance", "intolerance", "ignorance" while MSIL is silently munching on a family pack of popcorn and enjoying the traction the S-Presso is getting on TBHP!?

- Negative publicity is publicity in itself and the S-Presso is getting it by the tonnes here as of now.

- Last I checked, MSIL is the largest automobile manufacturer in the country with >50% of market share. They know how to run a business better than all of us here and I am sure they have their solid plans in place to make the S-Presso sell.

- Is the S-Presso a bad attempt by Maruti? Certainly not. It has the right ingredients to sell for the masses. Calling it an 'SUV' is being desperate though but hey, the Kwid is also an 'SUV', right!?

- Is the S-Presso an ugly car? Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. It is a personal choice to like or not like something. If someone asked me to buy an orange S-Presso, I would deny it, point blank, on their face.


But, for a budget of INR 5L, this looks good to my eyes! On the other hand, the Climber, while being a good design looks ghastly with it's orange accents!

- Is the S-Presso unsafe? Well, Maruti has obeyed the government regulations and has equipped with the minimum safety features that are mandatory, right? Can anyone confirm if the Santro/Eon/Kwid/Go is any safer?

- The S-Presso has horrible quality and looks like a toy. For you and I, who can afford a INR 10-15L budget, the quality indeed is bad. A person with INR 20-30L budget will find your INR 10-15L car to be of inferior quality. The term "quality" is relative.

- We should blame Maruti for poor sales numbers of Tata/Renault. Blame all you want, end of the day, most of us (including BHPians) want the maximum bang for the buck while buying and selling a car and that is possible only with a Maruti or a Hyundai. Call it a perception or whatever but it is the unfortunate truth.

- India is a country where opinions are distributed freely by the dozens and emotions are hurt. To live this way is unfortunate. There are many many things to be ashamed of before being ashamed of a car purchase.

- Lastly, in this day and age, there are no bad cars. Each one has its USPs and limitations. Let us disagree to agree on this.

PS: I am in no way related to MSIL nor do I own a Maruti vehicle. I only believe in buying market duds because I find them exciting and charming. My current ride is a 2014 Ford Fiesta and I aspire to own a new Civic someday.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by Porschefire

Woah

Attachment 1919747
But, for a budget of INR 5L, this looks good to my eyes! On the other hand, the Climber, while being a good design looks ghastly with it's orange accents!

- Is the S-Presso unsafe? Well, Maruti has obeyed the government regulations and has equipped with the minimum safety features that are mandatory, right? Can anyone confirm if the Santro/Eon/Kwid/Go is any safer?

- The S-Presso has horrible quality and looks like a toy. For you and I, who can afford a INR 10-15L budget, the quality indeed is bad. A person with INR 20-30L budget will find your INR 10-15L car to be of inferior quality. The term "quality" is relative.

Absolutely valid points!

Quality is indeed relative, so are expectations, affordability and shame

[wheelguy]

Originally Posted by Porschefire

Calling it an 'SUV' is being desperate though but hey, the Kwid is also an 'SUV', right!?

Well, Maruti calls S-Presso as an SUV while Renault transparently says that Kwid is a hatchback in SUV style. There is a whole lot of difference between calling a car SUV, and SUV styled hatchback!

No doubt, it being from the house of Maruti it will sell in huge numbers because Maruti hardly fails. And also this car created quite a stir in the forum.

Prospective buyers had nothing to feel bad/ashamed about buying it, if they want it then they don't have to care about the negative comments. If it fits their needs, they like it, they want it, they buy it, that's it.

The issue is, people who don't like it are expressing their dislike and who liked it are expressing their liking, that is what this forum is for, but why should one refrain from expressing their hatred while those who are expressing their love are free to express their love. That said, those who don't like the car, or the company, should express their hatred in well put phrases so as to not hurt any person in the process, while love/like can be expressed without any conditions because it won't hurt anyone. Let haters too vent their feelings and thoughts! If hateful thoughts are not allowed then that should be the case with all the OEMs/Brands, even niggles and bad-service experiences shouldn't be bashed/discussed too as it hurts that particular brand's existing and prospective customers.

Our forum is ~60,000 members strong, everyone will have different opinions and biases based on their experiences(biases don't come out of thin air) and let them express their thoughts/opnions no matter if they are biased. If you don't want any biases, then that should be the case with all OEMs/companies.

Biases exist and are inevitable, throw them away if you can, don't mask them if you can't throw them away!

What I have seen/observed over the forum is most us of call ourselves unbiased but have biases which are masked and are expressed in undertones(or give me a better word)! True neutrality, where is it?

Note to Porschefire: Only the first few sentences are in reply to your post, rest of the post is addressed to all.

[abhi7013]

Originally Posted by Porschefire

- Is the S-Presso an ugly car? Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. It is a personal choice to like or not like something. If someone asked me to buy an orange S-Presso, I would deny it, point blank, on their face.

Attachment 1919747
But, for a budget of INR 5L, this looks good to my eyes! On the other hand, the Climber, while being a good design looks ghastly with it's orange accents!

I only wish you had posted the rear and rear quarters of the car with the words of beauty and eyes and beholder! It would have been clearer that even 5L is too steep for the kind of rear this 'SUV' has..
Also, I don't recall Kwid being marketed as an SUV!

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by Porschefire

- Is the S-Presso a bad attempt by Maruti? Certainly not. It has the right ingredients to sell for the masses. Calling it an 'SUV' is being desperate though but hey, the Kwid is also an 'SUV', right!?

- Is the S-Presso an ugly car? Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. It is a personal choice to like or not like something. If someone asked me to buy an orange S-Presso, I would deny it, point blank, on their face.

Is the S-Presso a bad attempt by Maruti?

Oh yes it is, in fact it's a terrible attempt. I understand production cars diverging from their concepts, but for a concept that looked sporty and cute(ish), the production version had no dimensional similarities or the design details. The proportions, front end, all the garish plastic, the rear.....one can go on.


Is the S-Presso an ugly car? 'Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder.'

For a majority of beholders whose eyes function, Yes, the S-Presso is ugly.

[Chewbacca]

Having already sold my 5 year old Celerio AMT, I was at the dealer to finalize the deal for the newly booked Wagon-R BS-VI. In the background the S-Presso launch celebrations were in full swing but I was hardly paying attention as the Wagon-R was a done deal. But I couldn't resist from taking a closer look at the S-Presso ... why? well, from a distance it looked bigger than the Wagon-R which was also on display right next to it!! and that got me thinking ..."what the heck, this can't be possible" so I had to investigate

USPs (not necessarily to my liking)
1> You perceive the car as big, really big - unfortunately in India, the bigger the vehicle, more the respect on the roads (or fear) and that gives you a bad-ass personality equivalent to a proper SUV; at half the price

2> Impressive ground clearance of 180 mm - those water logged roads and speed-bumps are a lesser threat.

3> Wheel-wells are quite large - can easily accommodate 15~16 inch alloys. Enthusiasts are going to love it, they won't care about the power sap and increased stopping distance due to added un-sprung weight as long as they get the proper SUV looks.

4> Sweet turning radius of only 4.5 meters - I think only a rickshaw can beat this

5> 240 litres boot space - that's more than Celerio and as much as Tiago !

6> Rear leg room double than that of Celerio !!! I couldn't believe this so I moved to the driver's seat and adjusted it to my height of 5' 9" and then moved to the back seat again, still 6~8 cms more than the Celerio !! Overall length of S-Presso is 130 mm less than Celerio yet leg room and boot space is more!

7> 998 cc BS-VI engine vs BS-IV engine of Celerio / Wagon-R but cheaper than Celerio by almost 60~80K. I wonder who is going to buy the Celerio now?

8> Doors open wide, almost 90 degrees; you simply walk in and out of the car. I bet many Wagon-R repeat buyers will seriously consider this car and also save money.

9> Top variant gets Smart play Studio 7" infotainment touchscreen - Google maps, Android Auto or Apple Carplay + steering mounted controls - very impressive.

Deal breakers
1> Dashboard rises almost to the level of our shoulder (like Chevy Beat); felt claustrophobic. The center console rises further up and blocks the view around the front left quarter panel. This is the new blind spot for this car.

2> From the driver's seat, the edge of the bonnet is clearly visible. This helps in good judgement during turns and parking BUT it also blocks much of the road that is immediately in front. If there is an obstacle or a dog sleeping within 8~10 feet of the car, you won't see it.

[S.MJet]

Originally Posted by Porschefire

On the other hand, the Climber, while being a good design looks ghastly with it's orange accents!

Beauty lies in the eyes of beholder.

[400notout]

Originally Posted by Porschefire

Attachment 1919747

But, for a budget of INR 5L, this looks good to my eyes!

Is it me or does it look like this car has two bumpers?

It looks like one car sitting on top of the other

[vipul_singh]

Originally Posted by Simat

This is from the Altroz thread, a car that have not been even launched yet! Is that bhpian not hurting the feelings of a future buyer, or a Tiago/any Tata owner who might be interested in buying Altroz? I have nothing else to say, you all can see the photograph as proof. Thanks

But why should we as car owners be getting upset at all over the Altroz / Harrier / S-Presso / Wagon-R getting bashed by other members? The only reason I could think for doing so would be if we have a personal stake in the success or failure of a car or manufacturer.

Other than that, I do not really see the point in:
- bashing others over a car, or
- getting upset over others bashing a car

Cars are just a product made by a company to make money. It is natural that people may have diametrically opposite views, whether well-founded or not.

[purohitanuj]

Well, Maruti is wrong in calling this as SUV. But I don’t blame MS when every Manufacturer is doing it? Is it right to call XUV300, Brezza, Seltos, Creta, Ecosport, etc as SUVs? I think the term “SUV” should not be abused.

[wheelguy]

Finally got to see the car in person. Here are my views from the brief experience with the car and the showroom:

Firstly, how's the showroom experience? To say it in one word, it is good. The sales chap who attended to me is a well balanced guy, he is neither over-enthusiastic, nor disinterested. Told him that I am not at all a prospective buyer, just want to have a look at the car, and he is okay with that and proceeded to show me the car. Upon inquiry he told that there were 15 bookings so far in that showroom and a total 45 bookings including their other branches. He said that pre-bookings were not accepted as they were apprehensive about the conversion of pre-bookings, and so they refrained from taking pre-bookings until the customer gets to see the car in person.

How is the car to look at? It's not that bad as it appears in the photos, the car looks good when seen in person but will surely pale in front of Kwid/new-Kwid. The car will appeal to those who are looking for a taller Alto.

How is the tin-sheet of the car to touch and feel? Knocked(hard-knocks) at various parts of the car, definitely not tinnish but not super solid either, but front fenders are thin compared to door panels and other parts.

How are the seats? It took me a while to get proper front seat position, knees were rubbing against the dashboard if tried to reach the pedals, if the seats were pushed back then pedals are a bit out of reach but this was never a problem in my Nano and my height is 5'8", but there is good amount of range to move the seat fore and aft. And also one needs to compulsorily add neck pillows to the front seats. Back seats are okay for the car of that segment.

How is the boot? The boot space is good for its class.

Are there any panel gaps? Surprisingly yes for a Maruti! the rear hatch has uneven panel gaps, more gap on the left-side than on the right-side, easily observable for a naked but hard to capture on the camera(due to the angle of hatch & my poor camera skills) but still tried a picture:

Talking about the highlighted part, this gap is more on the left side and very less on the right side

Will it sell in good numbers? Yes, actually a big YES.

Overall, did I like it? Nope, I'll either buy an Alto K10 or Kwid over this any day or will hunt for a well maintained car from a segment above from the seconds market. Except for the Maruti's engine, touchscreen, and mandatory parking sensors etc it's not a better car than my Nano. The car felt claustrophobic compared to my Nano.

Note these are my views/opinions based on my limited experience.

Attaching the local pricelist:

[Holyghost]

Originally Posted by 400notout

Is it me or does it look like this car has two bumpers?

It looks like one car sitting on top of the other

I noticed that too. The car has 2 similar looking bumpers stacked one above the other. It is not that noticeable on the orange shade. Looks like they were too lazy to design a tall bumper and decided to do Ctrl-C + Ctrl-V on the original bumper to make it double the height.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by 400notout

Is it me or does it look like this car has two bumpers?

It looks like one car sitting on top of the other

Originally Posted by Holyghost

I noticed that too. The car has 2 similar looking bumpers stacked one above the other. It is not that noticeable on the orange shade. Looks like they were too lazy to design a tall bumper and decided to do Ctrl-C + Ctrl-V on the original bumper to make it double the height.

The double bumper look is actually meant to mimic this design of the Jimny:



For those of you who are more inquisitive how the bumper is made: