[audioholic]

Originally Posted by adneeraj

I saw this video today and I don't understand why our auto journalists don't call a spade a spade.
So much beating around the bush, crowd pleasing words. Only thing mentioned was the quality of the dash and the absence of adjustable headrests. Are they even taking about the quality of sheet metal used?
Just that it's wider, has a bigger boot and has a longer wheelbase.. So the Indian junta has to lap it up because it is something made by Maruti.

What do you want to decide? The sheet metal is thin? How do you decide that? By pushing your finger in and telling "Hey there is a dent". And then what do you declare? That the car is unsafe? - I dont think thats how you call a spade a spade. A sane mediaperson cant do that since it should be backed by some evidence. Else they will have the manufacturers get behind them. All they can do at most is to bring in reference to crash tests and so which they again avoid. They have been pretty straightforward at what is lacking in the car, which is pretty obvious and no one can argue that the dashboard is not bland, or that the Tacho is not absent. At the same time, the news of failed crash tests and ratings are pretty widely circulated by the media since there is concrete evidence that something is wrong. So, it is better to judge when there is proper evidence.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by adneeraj

I saw this video today and I don't understand why our auto journalists don't call a spade a spade.
So much beating around the bush, crowd pleasing words. Are they even taking about the quality of sheet metal used?

Originally Posted by audioholic

What do you want to decide? The sheet metal is thin? How do you decide that? By pushing your finger in and telling "Hey there is a dent". And then what do you declare? That the car is unsafe? - I dont think thats how you call a spade a spade.

+1 to that. This finger test is one of the most incorrect way of testing build quality. And guess what, manufacturers can easily fix that with a small patch. The same metal won't flex then, but will it become any safer??

Let the Crash results come, then any discussion will be meaningful.

Had posted this on Ertiga Thread too, and looks like I'll have to post it here as well.

Guys, concluding about body sheet metal thickness by testing the flex can be very misleading.

Today Auto Manufacturers are extensively using Structural patches to control excessive flexing of thinner sheet metal. The Marutis which we consider as well built, like the Ritz, SX4, S Cross etc all have such patches on the inside of panels.

Hence it might be possible that the metal is still thin, but it won't flex due to such patches.

http://youtu.be/XejGfddwRUM

Regards
Shashi

[Sherlocked]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

+1 to that. This finger test is one of the most incorrect way of testing build quality. And guess what, manufacturers can easily fix that with a small patch. The same metal won't flex then, but will it become any safer??

But Shashi, not everyone who complaints about thin sheet metal is pissed just because he thinks his car is less safer. Some are simply worried about tiny dents and dings that comes in so easily because the body panels feel severely 'light'. And it is concerning as well because of the dense traffic conditions we have, and moreover people do not respect somebody else's property unless its been parked in a closed garage (not everyone has the privilege of that).

The patches which you mention should be there in the cars coming from factory itself. Wish it was possible to just apply them in a DIY style

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by Sherlocked

But Shashi, not everyone who complaints about thin sheet metal is pissed just because he thinks its less safer. Some are genuinely worried about tiny dents and dings that comes in so easily because the body panels feel severely 'light'. And it is concerning as well because of the dense traffic conditions we have, and moreover people do not respect somebody else's property unless its been parked in a closed garage (not everyone has the privilege of that).

+1.

Over time, small impacts such as stone chips, brushed by a bike handle, leaning against the car and similar, all these add up to make the body panels uneven. It looks very bad. But if you look at them, most of these are very minor and don't need any denting job. I have seen this on my WagonR's bonnet and front door panels and also on my friend's Baleno. Crash test aside, slightly stronger panels would ensure lesser damage in case of such small shunts.

Also I feel the WagonR needs more weight (though the new gen is shedding weight again). Due to low weight and tall boy nature, it doesn't feel sure footed on any windy day. It almost gave me a heartache one fine day on the highway.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by Sherlocked

But Shashi, not everyone who complaints about thin sheet metal is pissed just because he thinks its less safer. Some are genuinely worried about tiny dents and dings that comes in so easily because the body panels feel severely 'light'. And it is concerning as well because of the dense traffic conditions we have, and moreover people do not respect somebody else's property unless its been parked in a closed garage (not everyone has the privilege of that).

Originally Posted by ashis89

+1.

Over time, small impacts such as stone chips, brushed by a bike handle, leaning against the car and similar, all these add up to make the body panels uneven. It looks very bad. But if you look at them, most of these are very minor and don't need any denting job. I have seen this on my WagonR's bonnet and front door panels and also on my friend's Baleno. Crash test aside, slightly stronger panels would ensure lesser damage in case of such small shunts.

Also I feel the WagonR needs more weight (though the new gen is shedding weight again). Due to low weight and tall boy nature, it doesn't feel sure footed on any windy day. It almost gave me a heartache one fine day on the highway.

A very valid point indeed. But isn't this more like a norm across manufacturers in interests of weight saving and fuel economy. Heck, even the Toyota Innova suffers from this issue.

This I believe is more of a culture thing. For example, the Japs will be built light with an eye on fuel economy. The Europeans will have a more solid feel, and people shop as per their needs. Our market hasn't been very kind to makers who try to change their basics. A lightly built 2nd gen Figo was not received as well by Ford Purists, whereas Maruti loyalists hated the poor fuel economy of the Heavy SX4. Again, this thing is good only as long as the manufacturers don't compromise on safety. A very good example of a light yet safe car is the Etios Liva. I hope you get the point.

As long as a Model is safe(which can only be concluded by a crash test), testing build quality using such crude ways(finger test, door thud etc) can be very misleading. I learnt it the hard way, the thud sound of a door closing depends mostly on the quality of hinges, stopper, weatherstrip, striker etc used, and not the sheetmetal itself. Just an example.

However, maintaining such cars with thin sheet metal is a nightmare in our conditions. My dad's official Crysta has numerous tiny dings and ripples all across the body, and the driver is absolutely clueless about it.

[adneeraj]

Originally Posted by audioholic

What do you want to decide?...

Well, I don't mean to say that they "declare" that it is unsafe. I understand they cannot do that. I'm sure even Maruti would be sane enough to roll out a car that barely passes the legal requirements.

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

This finger test is one of the most incorrect way of testing build quality

And I agree to this too. But as Sherlocked mentioned, tiny dents and dings start appearing magically within weeks. Even a stone that flies off the road because of a biker going over it causes good ding you'd have to live with forever.

All I wanted to point out is that our media isn't matured (read gutsy) enough to say it out loud that "the car feels tinny", "so much road noise on a car that costs so much" or "blatant cost-cutting on a 5-6 lac rupee car". The words are always neutral and all cars are good!!
Just for comparison, take any Carwow review on YouTube, check the Celerio or the Hyundai i10 so we can relate to cars being sold here. The host Mat Watson is so blunt on how the car is and still says that in a way not demeaning the car or the manufacturer itself.

It seems that everyone has come to terms that anything A1 and A2 segment is going to be a compromise in all areas, sparing a few genuinely good cars. The entry level starting with the cheapest cars like the Nano, Kwid or the Alto are bound to see a lot of cost cutting all around; and it is expected too. A2 segment and above do not deserve that treatment - definitely not with the money one needs to shell for those - esp. in the higher variants.

I know it is all a rant and maybe I could be asked to go get a German
But I feel terrible that companies get away (with profits) doing something like this.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by adneeraj

It seems that everyone has come to terms that anything A1 and A2 segment is going to be a compromise in all areas, sparing a few genuinely good cars. The entry level starting with the cheapest cars like the Nano, Kwid or the Alto are bound to see a lot of cost cutting all around; and it is expected too. A2 segment and above do not deserve that treatment - definitely not with the money one needs to shell for those - esp. in the higher variants.

Well, I guess things would be teeny weeny easier for you to digest if I told you that Japanese makers do not differentiate between A1 & A2 segments. I work with them and the Celerios, Wagon-Rs, and Altos have the same basic philosophy. They only have a different Hat, i.e. body shape. So, of course you find all of them to have similar cost cutting.
When we move to B segment and higher, things change but philosophy vis-a-vis outer skin doesn't change, everything else does.
This is just my personal opinion.

[Vid6639]

I was expecting this type of design on the WagonR cause then the EV version would be a simpler update.



https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...s-india-2.html

Somehow the above design works for me but the one here on this thread they are launching is confused. Why did the headlights have to be round when the entire design is boxy. That was the appeal of the initial WagonR.

What I am really looking forward is the K12 engine in this small car. Anyone who thought the Ignis was expensive now has an easy option to consider.

[Rshrey22]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

What I am really looking forward is the K12 engine in this small car. Anyone who thought the Ignis was expensive now has an easy option to consider.

That might actually not be the case!

MS will charge a premium for the k12 variant for sure. It's like they have an excuse to charge extra as they are offering something premium for the first time in the segment.

I feel that even a Delta variant of Ignis will be cheaper than the K12 ZXI variant of the Waggy.

I might be deviating a bit here but I feel that buying a top model (Asta) Santro makes even more sense now! You get the best of both worlds, good space, nice interiors (which waggy does not have), smooth 4 cyl engine (plus the 1.1 epsilon is a bullet proof motor, took our old santro to 1,80,000kms), spacious seating and dual airbags with all the other bells and whistles.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Similarities with Ignis base variant, minus the chrome?

[pavi]

Originally Posted by Sherlocked

The patches which you mention should be there in the cars coming from factory itself. Wish it was possible to just apply them in a DIY style

It is very much possible. You can buying damping sheets and apply the same. I have applied them on my Honda City with my limited knowledge in this matter. Made a crude recording of the same below.

https://youtu.be/HWN0j9riimk

[JS Kwt]

Official Bookings open for New Wagon R 2019

Source

[volkman10]

Press Release from Maruti Suzuki on WagonR,

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

So the WagonR is indeed on the HEARTECT platform - No wonder the wheelbase is exact same as Ignis, and the engine bay is able to accommodate the 1.2 petrol now.

Hopefully that takes care of some of the tallboy handling nervousness!

[AdityaDeane]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Press Release from Maruti Suzuki on WagonR,

Attachment 1837181

Attachment 1837182

Attachment 1837183

So, can we assume that the LPG variants will also not launch at launch? Sad to see only Driver Side Airbag as standard fitment and not dual airbags.