[Contrapunto]

Originally Posted by CArspeed

That clearly shows the scant regard they have for the people of India. Not only Maruthi but also other players like KIA and Hyundai who have even developed a structural platform exclusive for India compromising the most important safety aspects. As you pointed out, I am also hurt when they don’t even give those as an option to buyers who are willing to pay for it. We who are in the know of things should teach them a lesson or two by abandoning their products as well as shouting out loud in forums so that they change their attitude.

Easy to bash the manufacturers....but unfortunately real-life data has shown that the large majority of customers in India favour bling over safety. Manufacturers are just responding to these signals....Remember the original i20 had rear disc brakes and the original Elantra has traction control? Well, they quickly learnt their lesson and became successful. And that continues to reinforce the behaviour of most auto manufacturers.

It is also true that what customer "say they want" vs what they "Really want" as demonstrated by where they put their money- sorry there is a huge gap.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by shashi792

My sources within TKM say that the Innova brand (in its diesel avatar) will be retired. This could be their new MPV (in Hybrid avatar) which was supposed to be next in line after the Hilux launch.

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

Killing the cash cow? They did it with Qualis. But this time the market has moved on. Killing Innova Brand (crysta together with it) is quite surprising.

--

Something similar is being talked about in Indonesia:

This year Toyota will also present a number of new products. One of the new products in 2022 is a hybrid vehicle.

- Toyota B560 is an MPV, and the detail is the Medium MPV whose position is between the Toyota Veloz and Toyota Kijang Innova

- B560 = Innova or NOAH? Two theories, or Three?

- The first theory, Toyota B560 is a front-wheel drive MPV that will use the name 'Innova'.

Quote:
While in this first theory, the Toyota B560 is a Monococcal MPV with a front wheel motion system. You know, but it was mentioned that the Toyota B560 will use the name 'Innova'? Yep, but not 'Kijang Innova'. It is possible that the Toyota B560 will use the name 'Innova' with additional names on the back, such as 'Innova Sport' or 'Innova Cross'. It's just an example, don't take it seriously. If this theory is correct, then there will be 2 'Innova' sold in parallel in Indonesia with the composition of the frame &motion system that is opposite.

Second theory, Toyota B560 will refer to a new MPV that will use the name 'NOAH'.
Quote:
Indonesian version of the 'Toyota Noah' will use Toyota Kijang Innova's 1TR 2,000cc petrol engine. Means? It's likely that the Toyota Noah will be assembled locally, and has a different design to the JDM version
In addition to the 2,000cc Gasoline engine, Toyota Noah will also have a hybrid model.

Unlikely Theory:

Toyota Kijang Innova will be axed this year!

Link (Rumour: Maruti Suzuki's Creta-rivalling SUV coming in 2020)

[shashi792]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

Killing the cash cow? They did it with Qualis. But this time the market has moved on. Killing Innova Brand (crysta together with it) is quite surprising.

Does this mean Ertiga will take over the role of Innova? If yes, severe downgrade from Crysta. Not sure what TKM is up to.

According to my discussion with my source at TKM. Toyota wants to introduce a Hybrid model into their MPV pipeline. Innova brands retention is still under discussion. While I was looking for an upgrade last year-end, I had Innova on my shortlisted vehicles (family decided against it due to its MPV image). My source asked me to wait for Hilux (if that's my preference) or if I was very particular about Diesel then buy it within the first/second quarter of 2022. third/fourth quarter they might release their hybrid MPV.

Their Hybrid MPV will be more luxurious than the outgoing Innova.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

Killing the cash cow? They did it with Qualis. But this time the market has moved on. Killing Innova Brand (crysta together with it) is quite surprising.

Well, they can kill only the Innova brand and retain the Crysta brand. Just like they did with Kijang(Qualis) and Innova. First-generation Innova was sold as Kijang Innova in many markets. In Indonesia, it is still called Kijang Innova. Similarly, the replacement for Innova Crysta could be the Crysta or Crysta with some suffix.

[Shreyas Agarwal]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

Well, they can kill only the Innova brand and retain the Crysta brand. Just like they did with Kijang(Qualis) and Innova. First-generation Innova was sold as Kijang Innova in many markets. In Indonesia, it is still called Kijang Innova. Similarly, the replacement for Innova Crysta could be the Crysta or Crysta with some suffix.

That's actually a very good idea.The Crysta brand has build quite a good recall for itself.

These days people don't buy an Innova, they buy a "Crysta". My dad doesn't ask the chauffeur to bring out the Innova, he asks him to bring the "Crysta".

There are numerous posts on the forum as we that will tell you this fact. Here is some proof:

Notice how nobody has even mentioned the Innova here.

Though, the brand Crysta owes all its legitimacy to Innova only but it may have reached the point where Toyota might get away by removing the prefix and continuing with the suffix just to create some differentiation. Although another pov could be that the Crysta and Innova are so intertwined that the point of getting rid of the Innova might be defeated by retaining the Crysta also.

They got away by getting rid of Qualis to introduce an unknown Innova. They might pull it off this time as well.

Anyways, its all quite pointless. Whatever they call it, if its a good car, it will sell. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"

[Venkatesh]

Maruti Suzuki’s new MD Hisashi Takeuchi about Suzuki and Toyota partnership at New XL6 launch.

“Our relationship (Suzuki’s) with Toyota is like an iceberg what you see is only 10 percent and 90 percent is what you don’t!” says Maruti Suzuki MD Takeuchi implying the very close & deep working relationship between the 2 partners.

Link

[Venkatesh]

Toyota India and Suzuki entered into an alliance in 2017 which made way for models like the Glanza and Urban Cruiser under the Toyota brand.

The new Urban Cruiser Hyryder has been co-developed by Toyota and Suzuki, a major stepping stone for both companies.



Link

[volkman10]

Toyota and Suzuki's next collaborative launches:

1.Toyota is currently ready to release a B-SUV car with a Suzuki design and robust hybrid technology as a CAFÉ 2 compatible item. Vehicles will be manufactured at Toyota's Bidadi facility and provided to alliance member Maruti Suzuki in order to strengthen the partnership with MSIL. (Baleno Cross?)

2. Maruti Suzuki to get the first cross badge Toyota CMPV (Innova Hycross?) in FY23. Or could be the Corolla Cross.


Link

[msdivy]

This is turning out to be a strange collaboration. Both Maruti & Toyota have exact same models and the same variants - no differentiation. In fact, both Maruti & Toyota cars are manufactured by Toyota. While Maruti models are easily available and have lesser waiting time, the exact same models from Toyota are not available easily and the Toyota is unable to tell when the delivery would happen.

Not sure what Toyota is gaining by this arrangement.

[Mustang_Boss]

Originally Posted by msdivy

This is turning out to be a strange collaboration. Both Maruti & Toyota have exact same models and the same variants - no differentiation. In fact, both Maruti & Toyota cars are manufactured by Toyota.....

Not sure what Toyota is gaining by this arrangement.

An Automobile company derives its profits [Revenue + Surplus] from three different sources.

- Car Sales [Factory sales + End user sale]
- Service
- Spares.

As long as the factory is kept busy and enough cars are pipped out of production line, the company profits are intact. Most of the premium paid by the end user goes to the showrooms and sales agents.

The service and spares revenue is highly subjective and depends on many factors. Selling a car in a showroom needs advertizing, service assurance and many other factors like, how close is the nearest service station.

Toyota cannot expand its service network to Maruti Levels. So, selling under Maruti brand will be more profitable to both parties. Maruti sales reps are good. Service network is humongous. Toyota competing here is going to be a cash burn strategy, which might not make sense. They could use that money and buy Suzuki itself, which they are currently doing now.

[volkman10]

Jimny, Swift not for sharing with Toyota, says Maruti Suzuki.

Toyota keen to badge engineer the Jimny and Swift, but Maruti Suzuki has politely refused to avoid dilution of its halo models.

Toyota wants Maruti to share Jimny and Swift
Maruti says both models intrinsic to its brand identity
Badge-engineered products could benefit both carmakers

Link:

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Jimny, Swift not for sharing with Toyota, says Maruti Suzuki.
Toyota keen to badge engineer the Jimny and Swift, but Maruti Suzuki has politely refused to avoid dilution of its halo models.

Even if it is PR at play, good thing that the Jimny and Swift are off the table. It is like as quoted in the article

“It’s like asking Toyota to let us badge engineer the Land Cruiser. Models that are at the heart of our brand are not meant for sharing and both companies respect that,” said a company source.

The Swift may bring in volumes, but a Toyota badged Jimny would have sold like hot cakes for sure, just add a prefix or suffix to 'Cruiser'

Hope that Toyota doesn't just make a 7 seater Corolla Cross for India, but also bring the 500D/Compact Cruiser/Mini Cruiser/whateva to the Indian market too.

[The Rationalist]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Jimny, Swift not for sharing with Toyota, says Maruti Suzuki.

Until Suzuki remains an independent entity! There's no way they can hold water alone without getting under the umbrella of a bigger company, with the impending onslaught of Chinese EV's. China has to export EV's in order to export their deflation, as their main growth engine, the real estate sector is looking like a dud for the foreseeable future.

[HighOnSpeed]

Originally Posted by msdivy

This is turning out to be a strange collaboration. Both Maruti & Toyota have exact same models and the same variants - no differentiation. In fact, both Maruti & Toyota cars are manufactured by Toyota. Not sure what Toyota is gaining by this arrangement.

Maruti gets access to Toyota's tech(smart hybrid system) and Toyota can still enjoy a share of the successful running compact segment(of Suzuki) without worrying about the development and manufacturing aspect. And coming to who manufactures what, depends on the brand that originally designed and developed the model. For instance, Baleno and Glanza are both manufactured at Suzuki's plant, while the Hyryder and the Grand Vitara are manufactured at Toyota's plant.

[volkman10]

Badge Engineering success in Toyota- Suzuki collaboration!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1r7...l=AutocarIndia