[BoneCollector]

Originally Posted by shadab.upes

I am still confused as to how can a substandard product be the market leader ahead of City, Verna and Toyota. Maybe we are more price sensitive rather than class sensitive...no offence to Ciaz owners please..

I'm not a Ciaz owner but just to bring it's price in perspective, this is today's price of Ciaz in Gurgaon. I'm myself surprised to see that it's costlier than S-Cross!



People buy Maruti cars because of multiple factors, most important being service related. As far as it being substandard is concerned, Maruti is the market leader with over 50% share. It wouldn't have happened if it's products were substandard. We also see many people commenting on its build quality, agreed that they do cut corners. But then which company does not? If you search this forum, you'll see how i10 had some missing parts or the Kwid sold in Brazil gets 4 airbags plus is heavier or the missing K Truss in Indian Endeavor. Another important thing is that Maruti cars get involved in many accidents but then if you compare the share part, for every 100 cars sold, Maruti has over 50 of them so we are bound to see a lot more Maruti cars involved in some or other accident/incident than of some other company. The S-Cross was selling around 2K but with facelift, it's slowly inching towards 5K, price has also increased. Still people are buying it, so it's not a question of being class sensitive or price sensitive. There's more to buying a car than only this much.

Originally Posted by shadab.upes

. Why did you buy a Vento and City and not any of the Marutis or Ciaz to be more precise?

I would like to answer this from my POV. I went ahead and bought a Brezza 2 years back, knowing well that Ecosport is way better. I went for a Maruti for peace of mind. Ford service was non-existant in my city. Like I said earlier, there are many things one takes into account before going in for a car purchase.

Request to Mods- My nth request to you guys, please change the off-topic icon, it doesn't look good to frown when the topic is not to frown upon!

[bigron]

@shadab.upes - How do you say city is better than a Ciaz all the way? I am sure you can elaborate since you've made such a defining statement.
Also you are looking at the 10/12 lakh family sedans that mostly cater to a category of people that 'want it all' in their vehicles. Space,features,reliability and ease of ownership. Not a segment where you talk about class but simple personal preferences because all the products are so closely matched with each other.

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by shadab.upes

Prasanna, you took it too heavy on your heart. Whatever be the reason of Maruti's selling more, we know it's more because of herd mentality and it's reach to remote areas and not because of quality of products. Polo is any day better than a swift and city better than Ciaz all the way. Why did you buy a Vento and City and not any of the Marutis or Ciaz to be more precise?

I don't own any of the cars you mentioned. Most probably, I too won't buy Ciaz in it's current avatar. But that is not because of Ciaz being sub-standard, it's because of poor choice of engines in it.

Having said that, I won't buy City as well. apart from the engine (petrol one), city is even more sub-standard that Ciaz, whichever way you look at it. More than Ciaz/Maruti, it's the City buyers that follow herd mentality (of couse not all, I won't generalize). Class of Honda/city is just a perception. There is no class there as compared to comparable models from MS. Baleno vs Jazz, Brezza vs WRV...

[avdhesh15]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

As we move into mid 2018, Honda city has no USP at all.

Petrol ? - Yaris
Diesel ? - Verna
Space and VFM ? - Ciaz
Enthusiast ? - Vento and Rapid

OT... Kind of disagree. The City petrol is hands down the petrol option. The USP is the splendid ivtec engine.

On topic, the Ciaz needs fresh and good engines which are expected in the facelift. Let's hope the Maruti 1.5 turns out to be a good one. The hideous faux wood can be covered in an accessory shop surely.

[Aaron:)]

Originally Posted by bigron

@shadab.upes - How do you say city is better than a Ciaz all the way? I am sure you can elaborate since you've made such a defining statement.
Also you are looking at the 10/12 lakh family sedans that mostly cater to a category of people that 'want it all' in their vehicles. Space,features,reliability and ease of ownership. Not a segment where you talk about class but simple personal preferences because all the products are so closely matched with each other.

Why the City is better than the Ciaz?
- Far better to drive. Better performance, better handling.
- Far better to be driven in. The Ciaz is more spacious but the seat itself is flat and unsupportive.
- Gets a lot more equipment.
- Better design and styling.

I would never buy a Ciaz petrol, especially with so many better options available. The diesel is a different story, it's a pretty competent car.

Btw, neither the City nor the Ciaz, my pick from the segment is the Verna.

Coming back to the facelift, I feel like I'm in the minority here since I actually like the new front end. Don't get me started on the weird wood finish though.

[bigron]

@Aaron - Styling is subjective so does not warrant a comment.
They both are sufficiently feature laden and its only a matter of choice what features you want and which ones you can forgo.
And lastly, they are Built to a price family saloons. So things like performance and handling are not even their selling point.They get the job done and thats it. They are bought to provide its owner a complete big car driving experience without feeling short changed in any particular area.
Which brings me back to what I had said in my previous post, the cars in this segment are evenly matched with very little between them and you pick the one you think will fit your bill better. That is the inherent nature of the cars sold in this segment.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by Aaron:)

Why the City is better than the Ciaz?
- Far better to drive. Better performance, better handling.
- Far better to be driven in. The Ciaz is more spacious but the seat itself is flat and unsupportive.
- Gets a lot more equipment.
- Better design and styling.



Coming back to the facelift, I feel like I'm in the minority here since I actually like the new front end. Don't get me started on the weird wood finish though.

Kinda agree on some and disagree on others.

Performance of petrol city is better, agreed. The difference isn't tangible with the diesel variants. (PS: as I said early, I regularly drive the IDTEC)

Seats I agree, ciaz may not be as supportive as city for short runs, but on longer journeys the harder seat of ciaz makes it better than the soft cushion of city.

Handling I completely disagree. As I said earlier, vento handles nice, ciaz and city are both below average handlers at best. That too with the stock 175 section horrible tyres on the city, you better don't be driving triple digit speeds on curves.
Styling and design is again a personal opinion.
In my opinion Vento is the best looking c2 sedan. Verna is too wanna be German looking, City is a good looking car, ciaz has a classy stance and footprint that makes it look like a bigger car. People call it bland but I would say it is a classy looking sedan, a proper 3 box.

Coming to interiors, again, ciaz is well laid out while city feels misaligned and cramped.

I agree on the opinion that new ciaz's front looks better. And coming to features, new ciaz would match the city more or less. It is going to be a cut throat competition.

[nitin.rai]

From a very realiable source; the 1.5L Diesel engine project has been dropped by MSIL. The engine had serious emission issues after a certain km range so the team went to the drawing board to fix that but the costs involved and upcoming BSVI norms are making the project unviable due to rising costs both to develop & manufacture.

Another point to be noted is that the fuel for BSVI norms would also be fairly expensive.

The high cost of a diesel car & fuel complying to BSVI would push people towards petrols and hybrids.

[Higgs_Boson_i]

The face lift appears to be not well thought through. The interiors seem to have taken a turn for the worse.

[AMG Power]

This is the first undisguised pic of the 2018 Maruti Ciaz!!

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

This is the first undisguised pic of the 2018 Maruti Ciaz!!

Alloy design has changed. Looks better IMO.

I somehow don't like the matte silver surrounds over the foglamp assembly.

And I wish they bring out more colours, like the red in rapid. Present Maroon is not great.

And 195 section 16 inchers across the range would look cool.

[atnyia]

Originally Posted by BoneCollector

I'm myself surprised to see that it's costlier than S-Cross!

Yes. It is quite surprising. In 2015, when I had bought Ciaz, I considered S Cross too. Variant to Variant, Ciaz had turned out to be cheaper and additional discounts had sweetened the deal further.
Now, it's surprising to see S Cross priced cheaper than Ciaz.

[Swapnil_Alto]

Saw these pictures on a facebook group. The pictures were dated around 22nd May 2018.







If we don't compare the facelift with the outgoing model, I personally feel that the 2018 Ciaz looks good(minus the extra chrome bits). The alloy wheel design is also unique and looks good.

I hope they provide sunroof on the top variant, or atleast keep it as optional. Although sunroof doesn't have any utility in a country like India, it's a feel good feature to have in a car. Many prospective Ciaz customers buy City/Verna ultimately just because of the sunroof.

[Mr_Bean]

As a market leader, instead of a new engine, Maruti should be looking at providing 6 airbags on the top variant. This might be a huge ask from Maruti. If that happens, it would definitely boost sales & help reaffirm itself as the C segment leader.


Rgds,
Vinod

[giri1.8]

For some odd reason, Maruti's cars never look good in photos. When the new S-cross was first spied I absolutely hated it! But once I saw one on the road, my mind changed completely!

Hope its the same case with the Ciaz, current one looks timeless with its soft lines, not trying too hard to look edgy. Also hope we get better built car