[TORQUE_AANJANEY]

Well I'm no big review publisher but the car I drove was March manufactured. I checked it via the VIN number. There is a possibility that two cars were from different batches but still both of them were manufactured before March, and could have had the same set of issues. Nobody knows precisely which month onwards things improved, but I have heard from most that March onwards things are better.

My discussion was purely on the grounds of NVH level and not comparison of build quality. I'm a stupid person who test drives almost every new car that comes in the market out of sheer enthusiasm for automobiles. I'll say Harrier is no Ford Endeavor with NVH control but in comparison to Compass it's not inferior either. While the Compass scores over Harrier in engine noise intrusion marginally (it could be better firewall insulation in engine bay) it felt losing out on ambient noise vs the Harrier. Then again for me it scored better against wind noise. Since NVH is overall insulation from multiple sources of noise it could be down to personal preferences on what you consider intrusive vs acceptable.

Whether I give 25% weightage to sound from engine and 10% to ambient noise from outside, shall be my personal preference and will vary person to person. All I can say is Harrier that I drove wasn't a lot noisier than the Hexa (driven without AC on) but I will agree the engine note from the Varicor 400 sounds better than the diesel clatter from the FCA 2.0 multijet.

Yes Compass has a better sound insulation from engine note, but that difference is only between 2k - 3k rpm. After that the noisy multijet can't be muffled. But in Compass the outside ambient noise was more intrusive vs the Harrier. So to each his own. I would personally rather hear the engine clatter vs the guy engaged in road rage in traffic.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by Nazzy

Tata Harrier's windshield withstanding the impact of a Chris Lynn sixer in IPL 2019. Insane!

https://www.iplt20.com/video/165445/...a-lynnsane-six

That's the perfect advertisement Tata were looking for, wasn't it? I wonder if a car's windscreen is usually good enough to take that blow or if they had to protect it specially for this event.

That said, my Linea's windscreen was once hit by a lemon-sized stone that fell from a truck that was ahead of me and it took it well. Not sure of the speed I was driving at, but the stone bounced once before hitting the car.

[swissknife]

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

That's the perfect advertisement Tata were looking for, wasn't it? I wonder if a car's windscreen is usually good enough to take that blow or if they had to protect it specially for this event.

That said, my Linea's windscreen was once hit by a lemon-sized stone that fell from a truck that was ahead of me and it took it well. Not sure of the speed I was driving at, but the stone bounced once before hitting the car.

A cricket ball is quite different from a stone. A cricket ball is stuffed with rope and covered with leather. On impact, the ball compresses a little bit, there by taking a portion of the forces. On the other hand, a stone could have sharp edges and does not take portion of the impact forces.

[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by TORQUE_AANJANEY

The reason for posting the Hexa reference above was to remind people that Tata isn't alien to this game of NVH control

To add to that, Tata Motors had India's first full fledged NVH evaluation facilities and NVH analysis team. And that too at a time when even experienced customers were not looking at NVH levels. Probably it was something to do with Tata's plans for UK/ EU, which didn't materialise later.

and it's not particularly an engineering marvel to accomplish.

Now, this is something I would disagree. Having benefit of friends in this domain, I learnt one key thing : NVH level optimization is far more than just adding / removing insulation. It starts right from the source (engine, transmission, tires, environment); transfer medium (body shell, structures, insulation, transfer path) and the user area (booming noise etc.). A balance of all is must; however it is always preferable to reduce source noise, which itself is whole different ball-game.

I am not into NVH domain, so please correct me if there are any glaring errors in the above.

PS : There is another aspect called BSR (Buzz, Squeak & Rattle), which forms an important part of comfort over the ownership period. And Tata had BSR facility at almost same time as NVH one.

[Shreyas_H]

Originally Posted by swissknife

A cricket ball is quite different from a stone. A cricket ball is stuffed with rope and covered with leather. On impact, the ball compresses a little bit, there by taking a portion of the forces.

True, however a cricket ball traveling at high speeds can definitely smash car windows. If I remember correctly, Brett Lee had once smashed a car window when hitting a six.

So, good on the Harrier!

[FrodoOfTheShire]

Originally Posted by swissknife

On impact, the ball compresses a little bit, there by taking a portion of the forces.

Originally Posted by Shreyas_H

True, however a cricket ball traveling at high speeds can definitely smash car windows.

Found this video on YouTube. Though it didn't hit the windshield, the ball dented the roof of the car

https://youtu.be/BNJR6a2MVD4

[harry10]

Originally Posted by Shreyas_H

True, however a cricket ball traveling at high speeds can definitely smash car windows. If I remember correctly, Brett Lee had once smashed a car window when hitting a six.

So, good on the Harrier!

Yes, I saw this first hand. Sometime back in our club match a guy smashed a six which landed straight on Chevrolet Cruz windshield and it shattered.

Shot by Lynn struck harrier directly on windshield and it didn't even cracked a little. Good quality I must say.

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by FrodoOfTheShire

Harrier, Jeep and XUV500 comparison by Autocar.
Space - XUV500>Harrier>Compass
Interiors - Harrier>Compass>XUV500
Exterior - Harrier>Compass>XUV500
NVH - Harrier>Compass>XUV500
Driveability - Compass>Harrier>XUV500
Ride Quality - Compass>Harrier>XUV500
Winner of the shootout based on above criteria PLUS price/VFM is the Harrier

Agree to all the above.
On the part highlighted in bold, the reason why Harrier saw an uptake in Mar'19 sales is probably due to better streamlined production and dispatch control measures. However looking ahead, it is going to be difficult for the Compass to break the Harrier's VFM tag with a current price difference of ~4-5 lakhs, coupled with the knowledge that the Harrier has a strikingly and new SUV visual appeal.

[avimal]

A dumb question. If we keep striving for better NVH, how will we hear good sound from outside e.g. when someone is honking at me or ambulance with siren on. I thought of floor / door dampening many times earlier but i was scared that i will leave out some good sound as well.

[TORQUE_AANJANEY]

Originally Posted by AutoNoob

Now, this is something I would disagree. Having benefit of friends in this domain, I learnt one key thing : NVH level optimization is far more than just adding / removing insulation. It starts right from the source (engine, transmission, tires, environment); transfer medium (body shell, structures, insulation, transfer path) and the user area (booming noise etc.). A balance of all is must; however it is always preferable to reduce source noise, which itself is whole different ball-game.

I agree Sir 100%. The process you have stated is when you build a product from scratch. I meant since Harrier's platform and design has already been concluded, the additional sound deadening that's needed need not be an engineering marvel. The most amount of legwork needed to accomplish the above tasks must have already completed by now. And given the fact that the platform is taken from RR DS, which is a well insulated car, the basics must have been covered. All in all, slight tweaks have done enough to keep the general buyers happy. Beyond a point the steps mentioned above will come into play and it won't happen till a full fledged facelift / refresh is due.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by avimal

A dumb question. If we keep striving for better NVH, how will we hear good sound from outside e.g. when someone is honking at me or ambulance with siren on. I thought of floor / door dampening many times earlier but i was scared that i will leave out some good sound as well.

As you rightly said insulation to the point that no or very little sound reaches the cabin is never the goal. The sound reduction is for unwanted sounds like engine noise, tyre noise and wind noise. Again on the Harrier one prominent sound insulation feature is panels in the engine bay which isolate the same from the cabin. Check out the below video:-

https://youtu.be/4lZsMkFNiyw?t=33

[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by avimal

A dumb question. If we keep striving for better NVH, how will we hear good sound from outside e.g. when someone is honking at me or ambulance with siren on. I thought of floor / door dampening many times earlier but i was scared that i will leave out some good sound as well.

Originally Posted by nainan

As you rightly said insulation to the point that no or very little sound reaches the cabin is never the goal. The sound reduction is for unwanted sounds like engine noise, tyre noise and wind noise.

AFAIK, the NVH insulation attenuates frequencies in entirely different frequency bands (Engine/ transmission rotational freq, say 600~7000 rpm and their harmonics, suctions noises, tire noises etc.); so higher frequency sounds like horn, siren may not get affected much.

Originally Posted by TORQUE_AANJANEY

I meant since Harrier's platform and design has already been concluded, the additional sound deadening that's needed need not be an engineering marvel... And given the fact that the platform is taken from RR DS, which is a well insulated car, the basics must have been covered. All in all, slight tweaks have done enough to keep the general buyers happy.

First of all, even though Tata claims Pedigree of XYZ vehicle/ platform in media, Harrier is entirely new vehicle, new body shell, new suspension, new engine (i.e. Fiat engine in the Pedigree ) and most importantly marriage of all these.

That said, you are correct in saying that Harrier's design has been concluded. However, as many members have pointed out that the issues seem not due to design, but due to execution (production quality); and as per BHPians' observations, Tata has been working on that. So, additional sound deadening may not be required; rather proper execution of design intent is required.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by avimal

A dumb question. If we keep striving for better NVH, how will we hear good sound from outside e.g. when someone is honking at me or ambulance with siren on. I thought of floor / door dampening many times earlier but i was scared that i will leave out some good sound as well.

The best insulated car I have ever been is a Chevy Captiva belonging to my friend. I was so excited about it as I hate a lot of noise coming in the car. It still left a little bit of noise from other vehicles, just to make you feel it's presence. Over time, I noticed there was more noise coming in the Captiva.

I remember reading about Lexus (LFA I guess) where the engineers did something to ensure they direct some environment noise back into the cabin (artificially). They say it was specifically done to ensure the driver doesn't sleep because of a quiet & comfortable cabin.

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by v6kgang

Requested cancellation on 23rd and received the cheque on 30th with 0 followups or reminders from my side. Really well handled by KHT and TATA.

Lucky you. I have been requesting a refund since February and Concorde Pune is dilly dallying on one pretext or another. It is Seven Weeks now and I am yet to get my refund inspite of numerous follow-ups & keeping Tata motors customercare in email chain.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by nainan

As you rightly said insulation to the point that no or very little sound reaches the cabin is never the goal. The sound reduction is for unwanted sounds like engine noise, tyre noise and wind noise.

Maybe someone forgot to put those panels in?

Mind you, I don’t think the noise is as terrible as some are making it out to be (personal opinion), except when you rev the bolts off it.

But having made such tall claims of noise insulation, they’ve surely not lived up to the hype created. They should either fire the agency & the marketing team, or stop making cars and stick to ad production.