[lurker]

The problem with an automatic in harrier is that the 9-speed automatic in compass from ZF transmissions is not ultra-reliable. There have been plenty of reports where these 9-speed auto transmissions hitched on chrysler & jeep diesel models have failed prematurely in USA. There are reports of these 9-speed ZF transmissions failing between 40k miles and 80k miles. So it is understandable that Tata is wary of going for this choice on the harrier. Expensive and unreliable, is not a choice you would want to foist on your customer.

Hyundai automatic on the other hand is a rough unit as per tucson users on this board itself. Tata needs time to refine the product before taking it on board. So Tata has given hyundai a list of some changes to be made which they are dealing with in their own sweet time.

To me it seems reliable transmissions are an achilles heel of many automobile companies. None have the reputation of an aisin, tremec or getrag.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

You must experience the Hexa with 400 nm and the autobox then. The autobox is a gem which masks all turbolag and the car offers seamless power delivery from near idle to almost redline. There is no let up of steam until above an English ton, the sixth gear kicks in (only by seeing tachometer) way past 140k. All this in the normal mode, the sports mode and racecar mode offer even more. Tata did a big mistake by not offering an automatic on the Harrier

I have driven the Hexa auto though not for an extended time. I completely agree with you that its an absolute delight of a gearbox. In fact I wonder if the Harrier auto with a Hyundai gearbox can live upto the expectations the Hexa has created.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by lurker

So Tata has given hyundai a list of some changes to be made which they are dealing with in their own sweet time.

Is this a fact, or just a speculation? Could you mention the source of the info?

I'm also surprised to hear that the Hyundai 6 speed gearbox is a rough unit. All our Team Bhp reviews mention it as a smooth unit - both for Creta, or Tucson.

It's certainly not fast as DSG or even ZF TC gearboxes, but rough?

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by lurker

So Tata has given hyundai a list of some changes to be made which they are dealing with in their own sweet time.

Any source for this information or is this hearsay? I doubt if a contract between 2 companies gets executed so loosely without the existence of checks and balances including penalties for any delay caused by either side.

[arif_t01]

Originally Posted by nainan

I had taken a Zoomcar Hexa and did about 300 Km today on the same. It was an XM with the 320 Nm engine which felt so familiar from my Safari and is such a delight once the Turbo kicks in.

Are you sure it was an XM? Zoomcar usually have XE variants. Also, only XE has 320Nm torque, rest all have 400Nm torque.

https://hexa.tatamotors.com/specification

[Guna]

Originally Posted by lurker

Hyundai automatic on the other hand is a rough unit as per tucson users on this board itself. Tata needs time to refine the product before taking it on board. So Tata has given hyundai a list of some changes to be made which they are dealing with in their own sweet time.

What exact changes have they asked Hyundai to cary out to make it smooth? If at all, the changes may be to make the transmission more compatible with the engine and not to improve the refinement levels.

[S.MJet]

Originally Posted by lurker

Hyundai automatic on the other hand is a rough unit

OT: By rough do you mean abuse friendly? Or unrefined/notchy?

[lurker]

Hyundai TC on the creta & verna was absolutely fine but the same TC on the tucson was more on the unresponsive side as per a tucson owner right here on team bhp.

Hormazd had mentioned on one of his podcasts that hyundai had requested some time to modify the tucson TC as per tata specs.

[giri1.8]

Originally Posted by nainan

I had taken a Zoomcar Hexa and did about 300 Km today on the same. It was an XM with the 320 Nm engine which felt so familiar from my Safari and is such a delight once the Turbo kicks in.

I thought only the base XE variant had 320NM version, I am bit confused now.

I hope they launch JTP version with same power as compass! 140ps seems a bit low for such an heavy car.

[bageherath]

Originally Posted by nainan

I had taken a Zoomcar Hexa and did about 300 Km today on the same. It was an XM with the 320 Nm engine which felt so familiar from my Safari and is such a delight once the Turbo kicks in. Made me curious enough to look up the torque curves and looking at them I just wonder what such an engine would have been on the much lighter Harrier or the H7X where the turbo lag might not have mattered much. Attaching the same here.

Attachment 1836627

I agree and so does Jeep as they have the 140 PS on manual and 170 PS on auto for Compass in the UK. I just wonder how Jeep missed such an obvious opportunity by not launching the 140 PS engine on the Compass at a lower price in India which could have been a much more competitive offering.

XM should be 400 NM with Six Gear.

[Yellowphoneix]

Guys, as someone said, the on paper stats not necessarily translated to real world performance. And its True for sure. so its absolutely no point talking about varicor engine comparison to Fiat's 2.0 Engine.. If tata has selected fiat 2.0 over its own 2.2, then there has to be a merit for it & to get it in a detuned state will also have merit for a segment that Harrier is in.

Nor there's any point just talking about if Jeep's Auto box is better or not. its not coming to Harrier. Period. if you want it then i think its completely offtopic for H5X/Harrier thread.

[ece2k2]

Originally Posted by lurker

Hyundai TC on the creta & verna was absolutely fine but the same TC on the tucson was more on the unresponsive side as per a tucson owner right here on team bhp.

Hormazd had mentioned on one of his podcasts that hyundai had requested some time to modify the tucson TC as per tata specs.

I found it to be the other way around. Diesel AT felt a lot better (read lesser lag) on Tucson compared to the ones in Verna/Creta and Elantra. I thought it is something to do with the 2 litre engine used in Tucson.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by arif_t01

Are you sure it was an XM? Zoomcar usually have XE variants. Also, only XE has 320Nm torque, rest all have 400Nm torque.

Originally Posted by giri1.8

I thought only the base XE variant had 320NM version, I am bit confused now.

Originally Posted by bageherath

XM should be 400 NM with Six Gear.

My bad guys the Hexa had 5 gears and the engine bay had a VARICOR badge so I knew it was the 320Nm engine for sure . As I could not see the variant badge I assumed it was an XM.

Now the reason I posted the curves was to compare them with the 2.0 L engines from Fiat and look at how they compare with a known reference in the same class.

[giri1.8]

Originally Posted by Yellowphoneix

If tata has selected fiat 2.0 over its own 2.2, then there has to be a merit for it & to get it in a detuned state will also have merit for a segment that Harrier is in.

Tata didn't go for their in-house 2.2 for only one reason, it was designed for rearwheel/AWD setup only(longitudinal not transverse). 2.0L was probably detuned to make sure Compass still has upper hand in terms of power/weight.

[Yellowphoneix]

Originally Posted by giri1.8

Tata didn't go for their in-house 2.2 for only one reason, it was designed for rearwheel/AWD setup only(longitudinal not transverse). 2.0L was probably detuned to make sure Compass still has upper hand in terms of power/weight.

I Differ on that. why will TATA be concerned about putting itself down infront of JEEP? that logic is nobrainer.

Its probably for multiple reasons
- For better Fuel efficiency. Also for better driveability (like someone pointed out here)
- Am sure, for higher tuning bigger turbo/intercooler etc would be required, keeping costs low
- So that the H7x can come in higher tune, making it significantly a different CAR.. not just adding 2 extra seats.

Considering this, the expected price of MG hector is @ 15 lac, i feel its going to be a lot more "value for money" product compared to Harrier (based on stats on paper) and am sure they will give lot more features in base model than whats in Harrier(remote lock for sure ), making it probably equivalent to XM of Harrier (if not in absolute terms)

Also, there are couple of things to look at from CRETA sales numbers.

For first time, the sale has come dome down to 7.6k from 11k. thats massive fall of 4.5k units

Am sure atleast half of them are on FENCE for Harrier, just waiting for Pricing (just like me). even @ just half of that will shift straight forward, if the pricing is right. If TATA is smart enough, they will price it absolutely competitively, have a stability built, then steadily they can go for a price hike.

Also if you noticed the Price hike in CRETA, the 1.4E+ remains absolutely same. because CRETA knows most(70%) of its sales come from that & it just doesnt want it to commit a suicide by hiking that.. i Believe(may be wrong though) it will be same for HARRIER too to a large extent.

I hope TATA learns from this - Else harrier can sit in its laurels of D8 & pedegree and sell just 1k-2k units like XUV.