[iraghava]

Originally Posted by salilpawar1

Who told u that the Indica is a very bad handler? It is definitely a better handler than Maruti 800, Alto, Santro, Wagon R any day? OD's former editor had once said that the Indica V2 (2002-spec) is one of the best handling hatches in India.

Salil - Which editor are you talking about? Adil?

Let me tell you something about OD & most staffers there. A lot of what they write is Bull Crap and most people here know it. If you trust him well that's your perogative & i have nothing to say about it.

[rks]

Originally Posted by salilpawar1

Who told u that the Indica is a very bad handler? It is definitely a better handler than Maruti 800, Alto, Santro, Wagon R any day? OD's former editor had once said that the Indica V2 (2002-spec) is one of the best handling hatches in India. We have effortless cruised at speeds in the region of 100-120kph in our Indica petrol on our Mumbai-Pune runs...

Who told you that Indica is a better handler than the Santro? To be fair, I haven't driven an Indica, and the latest models may be rapidly improving. But on the basis of my experience, I doubt very much if an Indica can match the Santro's handling. As for 100-120 kmph speeds, that is no sweat for my Santro and probably even less for the Xing.

[sajo]

I do not hustle the cars too much, but I can say, sloppy handling is not one of the problems in the Indigo.

[bmdesai1987]

well i am with TATA's wat the hell people say. i love their cars and i will love it till i die. i never had a problem in indica nor indigo watsoever i used them both like hell. its that the point of view of people is diferrent. i would never compare a 7-8 lakhs car wit a mere 5 lakhs car.

[Mpower]

First of all, I dont think Indica is selling solely on patriotic sentiments. Ours is a country where phoren mall is sought after.

But just to clear the air, a lot of developed countries are strongly partiotic when it comes to car buying.

In the US midwest and in rural areas (NASCAR country) in general people are stongly against foriegn brands because they lost a lot of manufacturing jobs to China etc. People mostly buy american and very rarely will you find a Toyota or VW dealership. Only in the East Coast, West Coast and Florida area will you find imports having the upper hand.

Even in Europe go to France and 80% of the cars are French. Go to Italy and 80% are Italian cars and same in Germany. In fact GM is keeping a brand called Vauxhall just to please the Brits and VW makes SEATS just to satisfy the partiotic feelings of Spanish.

[Zappo]

By god... what a bunch of Tata hustlers!!! Frankly speaking I was keeping my counsel to myself till now as I very strongly believe that every one to his own. You can not make someone change his ideas just by dialogues and arguments. One who believes in something does so with some reasoning. And no body pardons one who breaks his or her trust.

Starting from there... Tatas have been making cars now for how many years? Umm... must be 7 at least? There Gen-I almost took the company down. But V2 brought them back on track.... in fact from then on things have only got better by the day for the company? Why? The buyers who almost deserted Tata (where did all the patriotism vanished, I wonder) came abck in drove and since then have stayed loyal, more or less. Why? Market is always right... nothing succeeds like success (pardon for being cliched). Lesson here is that people who buy these cars in hordes every year do not agree to this line of thinking that is being eulogised here, for sure. And if you think patriotism has anything to do with all this you all are smoking dope. No... indians are clever enough to know what works for them. No one... and I repeat no one throws down some 4 lakhs+ out of sheer patriotism.

About my own self, welll... between me and my family I have an experience of some 50000 kms on Tata cars... two cars... none has ever broken down anywhere on the road or any parts have ever fallen off, Lol. If anything both the cars have been rugged workhorses. And while mine's does a gruelling 50-60 kms everyday within city the other one has travelled myriad highways where they are more potholes than roads. These include highways in deep rural bengal... Tezpur to shillong and what not...

All these crazy arguments about parts falling off. Car stalling in the middle of the road... welll... I find these ludicrous. Finally, if this parts falling off and car just stalling in the middle of the road so frequently had really been true (every one seems to have a ready anecdote) you would have seen a stalled IndiXX at every street corner, everyday going by the no. of cars they sell. So how many such cars do you see everyday?

Agreed, they may be a bit unrefined, but then at that price buyers probably find the VFM factor is much stronger. But then to take the issue to a level where you say parts keep falling off, engine just stops the moment car comes out of the showroom... all this sounds like a childish urge to prove a point. I am waiting for the day when someone will say that he heard of an Indica that did a 360 degrees somersault on the road, nose first, when someone dabbed the brakes. And that will be the day!

[elf]

Originally Posted by Zappo

... I am waiting for the day when someone will say that he heard of an Indica that did a 360 degrees somersault on the road, nose first, when someone dabbed the brakes. ...

My friend's aunt's second cousin's daughter's girlfriend has a blue Indica. She was driving on a flat concrete road at 25km/h when she lightly tapped the brakes & the car did a 360 degree somersault on the road, nose first.

It lay at rest for a few minutes, then did the same flip again & again, somewhat like a Mexican Jumping Bean. Must be the substandard TVS Girling brakes...

[Zappo]

Originally Posted by elf

...daughter's girlfriend...

you meant she is a ... uhhhh... or was it just daughter's friend? haaa haaaa haaaa...

I hpoe you are just joking... seriously the day a 1100 kgs Indica does a clean somersault on the road I am sure even the cows, pigs and the horses will fly.

[abhibh]

ofcourse he is joking.

I would like to add that i have only driven indica once that too the non turbo model. The car is very big from inside compared to others and i kinda love that 4 spoke steering. The only thing i don't like about the car was overall visibility (may be people get used to it), diesel engine they are improving it so refinements sure is no issue with turbo ones. Non Turbo indica makes a lot of noise if you push the accelerator pedal hard..

I have also driven indigo but only for 5 mins and if the refinement level of indica turbo is like indigo then its a good improvement from TATA... Indigo was nice to drive. When i started the car the ac was on and there was very less noise of enigine. Pickup was ok.

So i think tata is improving their products. But i dont think i will buy Indica (dont ask why. there is something that stops me) but i sure will recommend it to people who want VFM and a diesel in sub 4 segment as of now.

Originally Posted by Zappo

I hpoe you are just joking... seriously the day a 1100 kgs Indica does a clean somersault on the road I am sure even the cows, pigs and the horses will fly.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by iraghava

Salil - Which editor are you talking about? Adil?

Let me tell you something about OD & most staffers there. A lot of what they write is Bull Crap and most people here know it. If you trust him well that's your perogative & i have nothing to say about it.

Actually it was not OD, it was Autocar India. I still have that issue I think.
Tata made the "good handling" V2 for about a year.
The time was June 2002(the model I have). Autocar pitted the petrol version against the Palio 1.2 and the indica handled better than the Palio, but had a harsher ride due to hard suspension.
Then came the new V2 with side cladding which again had softer springs. Another thing you will notice that most of these soft ride indica's "sit" down after around 60K of use if they are riding on original shocks, but indica's belonging to this period refuse to give up on the suspension front(mine is an example).

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by elf

My friend's aunt's second cousin's daughter's girlfriend has a blue Indica. She was driving on a flat concrete road at 25km/h when she lightly tapped the brakes & the car did a 360 degree somersault on the road, nose first.

It lay at rest for a few minutes, then did the same flip again & again, somewhat like a Mexican Jumping Bean. Must be the substandard TVS Girling brakes...

Wow, does she work for the circus or something. i have tried this at even higher speeds and could never make it summersault. Can you post some pics of the somersaulting indica in the "Weird and wacky mod jobs" thread?

[rajdoll]

Originally Posted by rks

Who told you that Indica is a better handler than the Santro? To be fair, I haven't driven an Indica, and the latest models may be rapidly improving. But on the basis of my experience, I doubt very much if an Indica can match the Santro's handling. As for 100-120 kmph speeds, that is no sweat for my Santro and probably even less for the Xing.

This is exactly the point, many people who have not driven Indica, still try to pass on their judgement. Even if you apply laws of dynamics/physics, someone can easily judge, which will be the better handler by looking at their design.

[rks]

Originally Posted by rajdoll

This is exactly the point, many people who have not driven Indica, still try to pass on their judgement. Even if you apply laws of dynamics/physics, someone can easily judge, which will be the better handler by looking at their design.

I don't know what you mean by "handling"; maybe what you have in mind is that the Indica is heavier and therefore a safer car than the Santro at high speeds. That may or may not be true. But what I am having in mind is that the Santro is really a superb handler, with a fantastic steering response and impressive lane-cutting, overtaking and cornering abilities, as compared to the heavy, under-powered Indicas. I have done close to a hundred Pune-Mumbai-Pune trips in the last year and a half and while I have overtaken hundreds of Indicas, I am yet to be overtaken by one. Probably the petrol Indica has a marginally higher straight-line speed and pick-up as compared to my (1-lit) Santro, but they always seem to get stuck behind traffic and very reluctant to make the kind of moves that I routinely make.

Many a time the white Indica cabbies (probably mostly diesel) see me rapidly approaching in the rear-view mirror, then make a nuisance of themselves by cutting into my lane and trying to make quick overtakes of the vehicles ahead-- I go "Oh no, not again" and patiently wait for them to give up and then proceed to overtake them. Of course that doesn't prove anything, but rightly or wrongly, I carry the impression that my Santro will run circles around any Indica when it comes to cutting through traffic at high speeds.

[tsk1979]

rks, I think you are confusing handling with driving experience.
Santro is definately a peppier car and more fun to drive.
But handling is something different.
It means that when you take a curve at high speeds with a santro and an indica, which car will be more dramatic. High speed turning and cross winds will unsettle a santro more quickly than an indica.
I drive an indica, but I have extensively driven a santro(my wife's) on twisties and bad roads and on good fast highways(2 lane),
Every time A huge bus passed me(I was doing 120) the santro felt jiggly. Not so with the indica. Same for unexpected potholes. From a stability point of view the indica is more planted on the road. Its simple physics of the low center of gravity for indica. Santro is a tall boy so drag will effect it more.
Same is for curves. I have taken high speed curves on both santro and indica. The santro will be more susceptible to losing control than indica.
That all said, I would be more comfortable in the santro as its a nippy car with good power. This is so great in city traffic and on short highway runs. But if I am talking twisties, I would take an indica.
The biggest problem with indica is the engine, but if you talk about the petrol engine or the turbo indica, it will do wonderful speeds and handle curves too without any fuss.

So do not confuse engine power and driving experience with "handling".

[esteem_lover]

For TATA's credit - they were refrained from making cars until 1991, when they made the Sierra & the Estate. So, it has been only 15 years now.

But the greatest advantage for TATA is that they can release cars even before they have been perfected & they took 15 years to give us a car that is about 50% right. The people who went & bought the indica for its price etc. were made guinea pigs & not even an apology offered for their technical goof ups.

Steeroid's Safari looks great. i feel, in the looks dept., it is very difficult to beat the safari. it has amazing road presence & looks like a beast, a very refined one. but does it match this with the performance & handling? i dont know, since i have not owned one. i dont know the 'dicor' & how to reclaim my life with it. But when someone pays 10 Lacs, he better get the performance, without niggles, for that.

before they could perfect the Indica, they have started on a 1 lakh car, isn't that something ? when will that be perfected ? when it becomes 5 lakhs ?