[VWAllstar]

Originally Posted by arungeorge

Looks like after market grills are ready before launch.

With addition to this, they are also customising as per Thar's inspiration.









Source: Vroomhead

[BANDHAV]

The roxor inspired option is my pick of this lot, it is giving the That a unique identity.

In its current avtar lots is going for it, it doesn't need to sail on any history.

[indian21r]

I like the design but I am a little torn on Mahindra doing a replica. I think certain regulations also warranted imitation like the pedestrian safety bumper. Adding any curves here would have appealed way lesser. (Though it feels the most tacky part in the car. Some of the renders look way cooler). Recessed headlights and indicators give the feel of Wrangler. Just not making these changes would have made the car retain its original look.

For the hard top really how many changes can they make. It is similar to the Hyderabad Hard top. Infact the design looks similar to the older Thar soft top.

Lastly it is not a 5 door which is blessing. Had it been 5 door the bashing would have been exponential.

@Aditya, I read that Hard Top is fixed and non removable. I was wondering how is the feasibility of putting a hardtop on the convertible soft top. That way we have best of both the worlds, Removable hardtop for daily use and Soft top convertible for the weekend getaways.

Image sourced from (https://imgk.timesnownews.com/story/...,h-450,fo-auto)

[cool_dube]

Well, well! After years of speculations, spy shots, rumors, and what not, the new Thar is out in the open, and how! While I will wait for the official TBHP review, here are my 2 cents:

• It is a STUNNER, at least going by the videos and images. If your intent is to turn heads, THIS is the vehicle. I mean, look at it guys...
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• The interiors are a quantum leap over the current Thar! Much more livable and just the right mix of stuff, given the intended usage of the vehicle.
  
• M&M has hit it out of the park by providing a wide spectrum of options - petrol & diesel engines, AT & MT, hard-top & soft-top, etc. There is a combination for everyone, ranging from off-roaders to "bling" junkies, from office-going weekend-adventurers to mavericks driving all over the country for months on end!
  
• Having owned a Classic and a Gypsy, I can very well relate to the amazing concoction that M&M has dished out here - a daily driver for those boring drives to office as well as that fun vehicle for weekend excursions! You no longer need 2 cars in your garage, provided of course, you are a small family.
  
• Copy of the Wrangler, eh? So what? There is only as much you can play around with the classic "jeep" design (notice the lower case "j") without deviating from the essence of it. M&M has done a fabulous job at giving us enthusiasts a good-looking, practical vehicle while retaining the off-road DNA of a jeep - look at those approach, departure, and ramp-break-over angles. Great job done!

While we can continue to bash M&M for being copy-cats, unethical, and what not, all that matters is that we Indians have been given this wonderful "MADE IN INDIA WITH PRIDE" option of owning a lifestyle vehicle with almost everything that was being done as "mods" to make it more livable, now coming as OE! Let's enjoy it as it is! Once again, hats off to M&M for investing so much in developing a vehicle for enthusiasts in this country which will probably get them just a small fraction of their volumes while the likes of Maruti Suzuki are still on the fence about getting Jimny to India.

Kudos to M&M!

[IntoTheStorm]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

[*]Copy of the Wrangler, eh? So what? There is only as much you can play around with the classic "jeep" design (notice the lower case "j") without deviating from the essence of it. M&M has done a fabulous job at giving us enthusiasts a good-looking, practical vehicle while retaining the off-road DNA of a jeep. Great job done![/list]

Exactly my thoughts! There is ONLY so much one can do with original design! Making a boxy thar slighly curvy will make it look like a wrangler!
If you make it too different I dont think people will Be as much interested in New Thar as they do now!
Not all foreign media is calling it blatant copy. Check out the below video

https://youtu.be/gG6XtHK8pHQ

[landcruiser123]

Mahidnra should NOT launch a conventional 5 door version. They can stretch the current platform a little and have a rear hinged door on the left side. FJ cruiser pictured below.

[ValarMorghulis]

OK... a noob question... How is this not a copyright question with this being a poor man's copy of Jeep Wrangler? Thar is only narrower and has pretty much the same design cues. Or am I missing the picture?

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by locusjag

It is not as if Fiat Chrysler came up with the original jeep - it was Wilys Overland that did it, the former only acquired the latter. Fiat has itself been copying the World War 2 era jeep design and replicating it in its products, more so in its Jeep Wrangler product as an atavistic design element.

Originally Posted by bigron

By your argument, they both 'manufactured' jeeps and Fiat itself copied the design of the WW2 jeep ( your own admission they acquired the brand) so Mahindra is also allowed to copy the design of the Jeep because Fiat has already done it.

So Mahindra has copied a copy according to you.

Disclaimer - I`m not a fan or any brand.

Fiat Chrysler is over boys - its Stellantis.

American Austin Car Company aka American Bantam is the first to come up with this design for war effort. There is no copying anyone here - What we know as Jeep today is a design specification for war effort, several manufacturers applied for it. Bantam can be credited with the initial design, but the ones from Ford as well as Willys overland looked similar.

There was no way a small company like Bantam can produce 600,000 vehicles, so Ford and Willys made them using a combination of Bantam, Ford and Willys design and they were supplied the world over. Its design was used to create many regional variants as per the order of the allies \ US govt etc in different countries throughout different wars afterwards like Korean war for instance. Therefore these are a ton of local flavoured jeeps including our Mahindra`s design variations as well.

So you see Jeeps being manufactured by Mitsubishi, its components being used by a Hopestar company to manufacture what we now know as Jimny, then there is Toyota land cruiser BJ, Nissan Jeep \ Patrol \ Jonga then there is Land rover which the first model looked like a Jeep itself using Jeep chassis and 80 inch wheelbase IIRC. All Jeep derived models looked similar to a Jeep for the initial few generations. It is upto the manufacturers whether to make a Scorpio \ Cherokee \ Pajero or maintain a barebones vehicle like what Toyota did till the 80`s with old generation and luxury version of Landcruiser or like what Jeep itself is doing and what Mahindra continues to do.

The 2020 Thar can be claimed as a design evolution of their own designed Jeep variant - The Mahindra Thar CRDe. Any resemblance to Wrangler can be claimed as a coincidence or deliberately done as a payback for ROXOR (continues to sell with an Armada like grill) lawsuit in the US, why should the company that has made Jeeps the longest and is known for making them (as well as tractors) go elsewhere in terms of design.

As a side note : One can call every 'modern' hatchback in existence as a copy of Morris Mini Minor / aka Mini from 1959.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by bigron

How is this little history lesson an argument in favor of Mahindra and absolves it from the fact that it is ripping the Jeep design for decades? Unless you are saying, yes they copied but dont call them out!

Imagine a world where people are in awe of Direwolves. Direwolves once existed in this world and are legendary in their former prowess and they wielded much power and struck terror and admiration in the hearts of men. But alas, they melted away into nature, into nothingness, with time.

Let's assume that there exists a canine racing track today in this imaginary world. On this track run canines, all of whom are descendants of wolves, but only a couple are of direwolvish descent. Only these direvolwish dogs are held in awe and respect by everyone who comes to bet on the races.

Should there be a reason to hold a phoren direwolf's descendant over a desi counterpart? Neither are the original article for sure. Both are but shadows of the original thing. And there exists a market for all things direwolvish. I wouldn't hold anything against either of these dog's owners; but I would surely frown upon those who detest the desi descendant alone.

Since we are on the topic of direwolves...the topic of ascendancy to the throne also comes up. Kingdoms have been run on the basis of nepotism and bloodlines. The King in the North thus had to be Ned Stark's son Robb when the time came, not his bast*rd son (John Snow). But if John Snow were to be so good a man, by his prowess, wouldn't you root for him too? No need to hold anything against Robb Stark, but is Robb Stark the exact same as Ned Stark? If his accidental birth as Ned's son is enough to make you bow to Robb as your king, I would bow to John Snow solely based on the man that he is.

My TLDR ("too long, didn't read") answer is - Fiat Chrysler and Mahindra are both copying the iconic Wilys jeep. There's no room to point out Mahindra without pointing out FCA. Let's talk when FCA rolls out a Wrangler that is without any reference to the WW2 era Wily's jeep's design language.

[sammy_automoto]

Originally Posted by Kannan

I have the same question going on in my mind. From what I have seen, there is not even internally adjustable manual ORVMs. Hope there is an after-market option available.

I did see an OVRM adjustment knob on the driver side armrest in one of the videos.

[metal]

Originally Posted by silverado

As per google weight is 1.75 tons! It sounds really bulky in comparison to Jimny which tips scales below 1.2 tons.

Just on the Jimny vs. Thar weight. If one has seen the Jimny in person, it is a much more small form factor, a "mini SUV" is what comes to your head. It looks smart, but small.

Jimny dimensions are 3,625 mm L x 1,645 mm W x 1,720 mm H.
Whereas, Thar's are 3,985 mm L x 1,820 mm (or 1855 LX) W x 1,920 mm H.
Jimny’s 101 bhp for 1.2 ton will be about 84.16 bhp per ton. Thar’s 150 bhp for 1.75 ton will bring the number to a very close 85.3 bhp per ton.
Between the two, of course there will be other differences as well, for or against. With Thar one definitely gets more machine. Jimny's small weight and size has off-roading advantages, for those who actually go of road.
Cheers

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by TorqueIndia

Meanwhile jalopnik

Also Jalopnik.

I’ll admit, the Thar was not a car I’d have expected to see grow up in this way, so I think it’s interesting. It’s like finding out that cousin of yours who lived in a van and made a living by doing rollerblade parkour or some shit now has a dental practice. You’re impressed, and maybe a little bit confused.

Having something that seems so Wrangler-like with IFS is fascinating in itself, too. I’ll see if I can talk David into taking a deeper dive into what an IFS Jeep means, conceptually and practically, because that’s interesting, too.

And about the old Thar too.

I knew I wanted to drive a Thar long before I had any idea I'd ever get to India. I was interested because it's one of the best automotive examples of evolution to an environment. Think of it this way: both the Thar and the Jeep we Americans know and love started with the same source: the WWII-era Willys Jeep. This was the first car Mahindra produced, via CKD kits under license from Willys. So, we can say that the Thar and the Jeep started out as brothers, possibly even identical twins. But they grew up very differently. Here in the US, the Jeep grew, matured, and eventually went to a good college.

The Thar went to prison.

I mean this in a good, but very specific way. The modern American Chrysler/Fiat Jeep is a pretty sophisticated machine, benefiting from regular updates and improvements with new technology. The Thar, while also the result of many years of Indian jeep development and refinement, has had all of its development focused on keeping it simple and making it as indestructable as possible

[TorqueyTechie]

Discussion in this thread has become more of a debate between copy vs non-copy rather than about the vehicle. Can we just move on and focus more on the vehicle rather than continuing on and on about the IP. I mean even the lawyers on both sides wouldn't have had this much discussion

[ka_sieben]

Originally Posted by Almetal

If this is Sheet Metal fabricated, then it is highly unlikely that it would be ready so soon.
Sheet metal dies are very expensive and time consuming to make.
Going by the superior finish, this doesn't look anything but sheet metal.

Unless if its M&M themselves who are making/selling it, under a different name of course

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by TorqueyTechie

Discussion in this thread has become more of a debate between copy vs non-copy rather than about the vehicle. Can we just move on and focus more on the vehicle rather than continuing on and on about the IP. I mean even the lawyers on both sides wouldn't have had this much discussion

The whole "copycat" discussion is indeed derailing this thread, with myself being guilty of taking the bait. Another useless meme that often repeats itself on new product discussions is the "taxi image" pejorative which people throw at certain (usually desi) brands. I wonder what they'll say when they see Mercedes sedan taxis in Germany; will they turn down a Merc if ever they win one in a lottery because it is in heavy use as a taxi?

If people have no useful points to add, they really shouldn't be commenting at all. Isn't that one of the basic rules of the forum?

But I'm not going to further take the bait from advocates of the "copycat" allegation. For my part, I apologize for briefly derailing the thread. It is not my place as a member of the forum to police the contents here anyway. Sorry.