[norhog]

Originally Posted by GTO

Chopping the top off a vehicle that wasn't designed for it results in severely compromised structural strength. It's just not possible.

The Safari is a body on chassis design not monocoque. So chopping off the roof with some strengthening on body would be ok in my opinion.

[Zezé]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Safari is a good car, but it can't match the Gypsy off the road.
Two reasons:
1. Size
2. Weight

If the army wanted a comfortable vehicle, they should have asked Mahindra to modify the Thar and make it to their specifications.

I agree with the sentiment expressed. The Thar is a definitely a superior off road vehicle compared to the Gypsy and given the prestige involved in securing the order, I am sure that M&M would have willingly carried out modifications to meet the specifications of the Army.

[princey]

Two quick points on the debate.
1. The Gypsy isn't going away anytime soon. Will remain the mainstay of the Indian Army for some more years.
2. The Safari is a new introduction in a different category of vehicles for the Indian Army. It will do duty alongside the Gypsy and is not a direct replacement for it.

[heydj]

It would be really cool if Storme can replace aging Ambassador Staff cars used by Brigadiers and above ranked staff officers. But I do wonder what product within market can replace Gypsy, be light and nimble, diesel, and 4*4.

Moreover a shot in the arm for Tata Motors. First a tie up Uber and now this, they may not do well in B2C segment but in B2B are doing well.

Possibly time to carve out these two distinctions as P&L of one segment should not drag down the other, furthermore if B2B does really well then Tata can invest even more and upgrade with firm eye on the needs of particular segment.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by heydj

It would be really cool if Storme can replace aging Ambassador Staff cars used by Brigadiers and above ranked staff officers.

Air Force has done this. All officers above a certain rank now have spanking brand new Black Scorpio S10 4WDs, instead of Ambassadors.

[globemaster]

Safari getting into the army is wonderful.
My 2 cents would be to make it more robust and rugged looking. I feel the safari in its current form doesn't quite look like a "Military vehicle". I am imagining a look like an Indian Hummer (high expectations though). It should also have a menacing character that we can be proud of and our enemies afraid of.

I hope you guys get the point.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by rookieraj

Replacing a 1000 cc engine with a 1300cc one and then adding a powered steering is all that the manufacturers did to keep it relevant to the changing times

Gypsy never had a power steering.

Originally Posted by CarCynic

Seems like a panic situation for me

MSIL will not stop the production altogether, since Gypsy is still ordered by other govt institutions and Navy/Air Force in addition to some berserk individual buyers Worst case, wait periods might go up since it would now take longer for the number of orders to add up to the 'threshold' required by MSIL to kick off a production run.

[rookieraj]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Gypsy never had a power steering.

Thanks. I stand corrected. I wonder why I have this impression that the Gypsy King has a lighter steering than the older MG410W?

[arjab]

Maruti does not want to spend money on the Gypsy for some strange reason.

The FIAT SDE 1.3 in 75 Ps guise is already available in a North - South, rear wheel drive configuration in the Chevrolet Enjoy.
Don't tell me that Maruti cannot integrate the same in the Gypsy, given its engineering resources. (Just see the scores of Diesel Gypsy converts in Mayapuri area of Delhi).
Give the Gypsy a nicely styled hard top, an EPS, an AC, shave 10mm off the bumpers (the Gypsy now stands at 4010mm, by the way, nose to tail), and you have a potential Bolero killer.
Maybe that's why MSIL is not doing it. Maybe Mahindra has requested them not to !

[ACM]

Good win by TATA

I think Gypsy and Storme serve different requirements.

The Storme meeting targeted price points and other requirement of the Army may be a stripped down lighter version. For example some soundproofing and carpeting, cladding etc may be removed also the last row seats may be removed. Or it may also not be too stripped down if it is used to meets Officer Commuter requirements.

It is a much better options compared to the Scorpio for sure. But the Army may need another vehicle to replace what the Gypsy does. That said the Gypsy may have been incorrectly deployed in various applications for which the Storme may be a better vehicle.

Kudos to TATA.

[Manan_02]

This move of Indian Army just proves that TATA is no more considered as an "Unreliable Brand". If it had been a case, Indian Army would just not consider the Safari over Scorpio as they can't afford to deal with the issues of the car while they are on their duty. It is a much better option when compared to the Scorpio for sure.
Cheers to TATA

[jeepster]

Few points from my side.

1. Tata Safari is not replacing the Gypsy.
   
   (Gypsy is from GS500 category with 500kg payload carrying capacity.)
2. Army has changed their requirements thus gypsy does not qualify for it. (previously orders are still being completed https://www.team-bhp.com/news/army-o...i-suzuki-gypsy)
   
   Army had started to test vehicles for its GS800 category few years back with requirement of air-conditioned vehicles with a hard top and payload of 800 kg.
3. Storme won the bid for order worth 3000+ vehicles. (overpowering MM Scorpio.)

some pics from the Defence Expo 2012.

Storme looks stock with following accessories/mods.

• Blackout lights
• Olive green color
• Fire extinguisher
• Tow hook
• Jerry can holder
• Flag pole on hood

Rgds,
Nikhil

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/indian-army-in-no-hurry-to-phase-out-maruti-suzuki-gypsy-orders-another-2071-units/articleshow/48092563.cms

www.dnaindia.com/money/report-end-of-an-era-for-gypsy-as-the-indian-army-phases-it-out-2103590

[anjan_c2007]

Its good news for Tata Motors. According to the Economic Times report, the Scorpio and the Safari had both endured the gruelling tests for qualifying since 2013. But Tata Motors offered better financial deals to the Army, it says. Maybe, it was the lowest quotation in such a case. And was qualified by the appointed Tender Committee of the Indian Army.

True, the Gypsy and the Scorpio/ Safari are in totally different niches. The Gypsy does what the older Willys, Jongas, Jeeps and Mahindras (CJ3B, MM550 DP) were doing and the Safari will now be put through its own arduous duties.

Having my Late Dad and elder brother, apart from many near relatives in the Army, I have seen these both in the field duties and in Hqs duties. The worst terrains they cover in the field and forward areas are mostly with no roads, cart tracks with convex surfaces in the centre with depressions from where the wheels ply (here the differential or the engine sump or gearbox are vulnerable to hits), narrow tracks with shrubs all around (the sides hit the branches of the shrubs rubbing the paintwork - hood canopies in canvas (older Mahindras) or acrylic (Gypsy) endure these stretches better), snowy and desert conditions. But the softtop hoods are not protective from the weather and offer less protection from the safety point of view. The 4 WD when used, is mostly engaged in the High range and rarely in the Low range.

The troop movements are arduous and convoys move for hours at a stretch mostly in the border areas.

The headquarters based vehicles are suddenly requisitioned for field duties whenever the need arises and vice-versa.

In this backdrop, the Tata Safari that the Army will buy will have very different technical and body specifications, than those we see in day to day civilian use. It is like the MM 540 DP and the MM 550. The latter was never available in the showrooms for civilians. The tender mentions the different specifications and the vendor is called and all the modifications are discussed The vendor signs and certifies that he will be able to meet these specifications in his tender, or otherwise risk losing on the supply order being cancelled.

Lastly, I can add that since the past five years, the Mahindra Scorpio has been widely used by the senior officers of the three forces (including the Chiefs) as its Staff Car, replacing the Ambassador and Tata Indigo.



An Air Marshal's black Scorpio trailing the vintage Ford Jeep of Mr Aqueel Ahmed

[condor]

Originally Posted by ACM

I think Gypsy and Storme serve different requirements.

Originally Posted by jeepster

Few points from my side.

1. Tata Safari is not replacing the Gypsy.
   (Gypsy is from GS500 category with 500kg payload carrying capacity.)

As others would also point out, this sounds logical. The Gypsy with it's smaller footprint and the larger Storme would have their own individual strengths and challenges. These two vehicles would be complementary rather than competitors.

And +1 to the point about the reliability, though lets not forget the role that VFJ would play in bringing this up to their spec.

[budgam.boonyi]

I hope this will solidify MSIL into definitely bringing in the next generation Jimny to India (Or more accurately just giving us access to it, as it is supposedly going to be built in India).

They should have done this years ago! Learnt to drive in my mom's 1999 Jimny, one of the most fun you can have on 4 wheels. Still sells well in a LOT of countries, not bad for 18 years. Would make a great weekday workhorse/weekend warrior if they sell me one with a deisel.

Conflicting reports of it being built on the same platform as Baleno/Ignis.

www.motoring.com.au

Suzuki chiefs on the international Ignis launch in Europe were tight-lipped on specific future developments but were happy to admit that the Jimny will not sit on the same new generation platform as the Ignis and the Baleno.Nor will the new Jimny get the Ignis’ fairly simple Allgrip Auto all-wheel drive system, instead getting a more advanced Allgrip Pro set-up as befits the Jimny’s role as more of a tough, workhorse vehicle.

www.drivespark.com

The Maruti Suzuki Jimny will be based on the same platform which underpins the Baleno and soon to be launched Ignis crossover.l