[Turbanator]

Came across this Import Data , looks this has to do something with NCR Ban. First Petrol 3 & 5 Series and now 725 - BMW India is surely taking Ban seriously.

Will be interesting to see how they price, if they actually start assembling, which should be easy as they already produce/ assemble 4 Cylinder engine as well 730.

[YashD]

Now, this is interesting and a segment first! Will the 2.0L engine be good enough for a 7 Series? How is the manufacturer going to price it and equip it?

A high price tag will definitely be a turn off but then folks specially at Delhi will only have an option of 7 Series in the luxury segment!

I guess it will produce the same 217 bhp of power with 450 NM Torque like the 525D.

The 725D is returning back after 15 Years! have heard read about a 725 trim came in the E38 model mated to a 5 Speed AT and MT box but the current model offered in a 725LD trim, looks like BMW is expecting quite a good demand for the vehicle in Delhi and moreover already had a good base existing customers who wants a luxury car but aren't able to buy one due to the ban.

I am too curious to see how BMW tunes this engine for the 7 Series! Way back in 1998-2001, things were way different. Now, the current model is way heavier and complicated.

The Indian car market is getting extremely intense, each manufacturer wants a bigger chunk and are getting aggressive, grabbing every opportunity they see!

[Sahil]

I don't think this a good move at all. The 725LD does not exist in the line up anywhere in the world and for good reason- it's too underpowered for a car this big. Launching inferior products just for India is not cool.

BMW should instead start locally assembling the 740iL to bring down the price and counter the diesel ban. This is the same strategy MBIL did by getting in the CKD S400.

Or BMW could go one step ahead and launch a Hybrid 7 CKD. Big respect to them if they do that and shame on them if they get the 725LD back from its grave to dump on the Indian market.

[MSP9994]

Some data from a VIN decoder. Seems to produce more power than a 525d.

[landcruiser123]

These manufacturers who have the resources will work around this ban. Then what does the government do? Ban diesel cars with engine >1800 cc?

Only someone like Toyota couldn't care too much to make a new engine because of less RoI. They'll sell you a petrol variant instead.

Originally Posted by Sahil

I don't think this a good move at all. The 725LD does not exist in the line up anywhere in the world and for good reason- it's too underpowered

Honestly, how many 7 series owners are going to drive often? And how many will take this car out on the highway frequently? That one person in 20 won't buy the car because it'll be underpowered. BMW doesn't care as long as the other 19 buy it.

[karan561]

Amazing move by BMW to counter the BAN, it definitely shows their pro-activeness towards India

Also keep in mind the Jaguar XJ had a 2L 4 cyl petrol, IMO it is better having a high torque 2L diesel than a petrol for a heavy car & kudos to BMW for implementing this for India

IMO this car wont be slow the way we are thinking it to be. My estimate is keeping in mind the power figures of the new generation B series diesel engines, 725LD will be as fast or faster than the current F10 520d (which is the most sold 5'er in India).

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

These manufacturers who have the resources will work around this ban. Then what does the government do? Ban diesel cars with engine >1800 cc?

Only someone like Toyota couldn't care too much to make a new engine because of less RoI. They'll sell you a petrol variant instead.

Toyota has the resources as well.
They have 2 litre engines in the EU in use in vehicles like Avensis and RAV4.

They simply dont want to put extra effort and plonk the engine into Innova.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

Toyota has the resources as well.
They have 2 litre engines in the EU in use in vehicles like Avensis and RAV4.

They simply dont want to put extra effort and plonk the engine into Innova.

Because they cannot. The Avensis and RAV4 engines wont even work in the Innova or Fortuner. Those engines are not meant for ladder frame chasis with longitudinal mount and rear wheel drive or 4Wd.

It's actually better to design a new engine than to even try using those engines which is why you don't see the Innova or Fortuner engine in a Camry or a RAV4. A truck engine vs a car engine.

On the other hand, BMW has a fleet of diesel engines and luckily for them the 2.0L engine is under 2000cc.

Mercedes even with the resources is struggling because their smallest engine is 2.1L engine. They don't have much below that other than the Renault 1.5L dCi engine which even they know wont work in India.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Came across this Import Data , looks this has to do something with NCR Ban. First Petrol 3 & 5 Series and now 725 - BMW India is surely taking Ban seriously.

Good move for BMW and those who will only be chauffeur-driven, yet I can't help but feel terrible for our friends in Delhi-NCR. Because of a lame blanket rule, they can't buy new 6-cylinder diesels anymore. These engines are what the Germans do best and are so well-suited to our driving conditions. Nothing quite like a 730 for India.

Originally Posted by Sahil

BMW should instead start locally assembling the 740iL to bring down the price and counter the diesel ban.

The average joe will still prefer an economical 2.0 liter diesel instead of a guzzling 6-cylinder petrol.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Mercedes even with the resources is struggling because their smallest engine is 2.1L engine. They don't have much below that other than the Renault 1.5L dCi engine which even they know wont work in India.

They now have an under 2 litre engine which is far superior but it cannot run on our diesel fuel

[quickdraw]

I cannot believe that they are seriously thinking about launching the behemoth with a puny 4 cylinder engine.

They would have been better off getting the B48 BMW 730Li (258ps 2L 4CY). Educating customers who are too used to diesels about how running costs of a smaller petrol would still be a better option than this. Also I will use this chance to rant why they chose to get the 320i here instead of the 328i or 335i.

[Sahil]

Originally Posted by GTO

The average joe will still prefer an economical 2.0 liter diesel instead of a guzzling 6-cylinder petrol.

A typical 7 series buyer isn't really an average joe-These are well travelled and well informed customers who care about the the badge and most might not be comfortable spending their hard earned 1cr on a model that does not exist in BMW's global portfolio.

Jaguar tried to give a 2L engine in the XJ and failed. Mercedes tried bringing in the S300 at a very attractive price with the previous gen model and failed. However, BMW is the only one trying to bring a smaller diesel engine so credit to them for trying. Biggest drawback of a smaller 4cyl diesel engine is refinement which is a big priority on the 7.
BMW will need to be disruptive on pricing, maybe a 99 lakh price tag could create some stir. Finally, whether it will work or not is something the market will decide.

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Because they cannot. The Avensis and RAV4 engines wont even work in the Innova or Fortuner. Those engines are not meant for ladder frame chasis with longitudinal mount and rear wheel drive or 4Wd.

It's actually better to design a new engine than to even try using those engines which is why you don't see the Innova or Fortuner engine in a Camry or a RAV4. A truck engine vs a car engine.

Correct.

So, they have to
1: change from transverse to longitudinal mount.
2: Change the turbo's and some components and do the overall tuning for even more low end torque.

The RAV4 2.0 makes 310NM at 1600-2200rpm.
The Innova 2.4 makes 343NM at 1400-2800rpm.


The above looks like a deficit, however,
The engine in the RAV4 2.0 is a full square configuration 1:1 bore:stroke.
The engine in the Innova 2.4 is slightly oversquare 1.02:1.

Undersquare engines are better suited for torque, so the RAV4's 2.0 can still be tuned for even more low down torque.

Is changing from Transverse to Longitudinal such a engineering challenge?(I dont know, Just asking)

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by Sahil

While I agree that FE and Power aren't the highest priority for the 7 series buyer, it is yet true that he isn't an average joe. These are well travelled and well informed customers who care about the the badge and most might not be comfortable spending their hard earned 1cr on a model that does not exist in BMW's global portfolio.

Jaguar tried to give a 2L engine in the XJ and failed. Mercedes tried bringing in the S300 at a very attractive price with the previous gen model and failed. However, BMW is the only one trying to bring a smaller diesel engine so credit to them for trying. Biggest drawback of a smaller 4cyl diesel engine is refinement which is a big priority on the 7.
BMW will need to be disruptive on pricing, maybe a 99 lakh price tag could create some stir. Finally, whether it will work or not is something the market will decide.

Honestly - majority don't and it is evident from the number of base model 730Ld's on the roads.
While I don't promote such a move, it is logical as it lowers the entry point to the 7 series segment (which has gone up by nearly 50L in the last year). Let's not forget that BMW was (and probably still is?) contemplating an X5 25d as well. With 231bhp - it shouldn't be a slacker either posting relatively respectful sub 10sec 0-100 times.

The XJ failed because the car was outdated in light of better competition, was a slow seller.
Similarly, the S300 was a regular wheelbase IIRC.
Lastly - both of these were petrol, which anyways contributes to negligible sales in this segment.

While I would love to see an active hybrid 740Li - given how the older variant was stupid expensive (CBU), I don't expect a locally produced variant to be priced anywhere close to the 730Ld.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt

To continue and compete on the "All Show and No Go" theme Mercedes in all probability will soon introduce the S180D.

There was the W221 S250D

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/...cedes-s250-cdi