[C300]

Originally Posted by deehunk

Renault was found cheating Indian market with smaller airbags

They scored 3 stars with that smaller airbag. AWD with its active safety features will probably score 4 stars. No other car from the competition has that safety rating.
We are bashing Renault while our top 2 manufacturers are flooding the market with cheap substandard products.

[deehunk]

Originally Posted by C300

They scored 3 stars with that smaller airbag. AWD with its active safety features will probably score 4 stars. No other car from the competition has that safety rating.
We are bashing Renault while our top 2 manufacturers are flooding the market with cheap substandard products.

As I said it is your view, that alone cannot change the customer mindset. See this new thread about Renault's silence on faulty accelerator in Kwid. No other forum has this kind of reach and creating awareness about such hidden issues has been our highest priority.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...r-pedal-2.html

I am quoting from the Crash test rating "With the Indian Duster the head of the driver did not contact the airbag in the centre as it should, exposing the head to impact on the steering wheel and therefore more risk of injuries. This can be seen when the head reaches maximum front excursion and compresses the airbag. The Latin American Duster airbag on the other hand was a larger size and covered the head and chest of the driver".

GM had a far better car in Spark a decade before Kwid arrived, what led to their downfall was arrogance.

[anilntny]

Originally Posted by deehunk

GM had a far better car in Spark a decade before Kwid arrived, what led to their downfall was arrogance.

I agree, but no car is perfect. Spark was just a rebadged Daewoo Matiz! Infact, Spark was my first car. I sold off Spark, with in one year. It had no safety features and had horrible mileage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Spark

New advertisement of Renault Captur looks better than the ones with celebrities.

[C300]

Originally Posted by deehunk

No other forum has this kind of reach and creating awareness about such hidden issues has been our highest priority.

Thats why we can better spend our energy by targetting the elephants in the room.

Originally Posted by deehunk

I am quoting from the Crash test rating "With the Indian Duster the head of the driver did not contact the airbag in the centre as it should, exposing the head to impact on the steering wheel and therefore more risk of injuries. This can be seen when the head reaches maximum front excursion and compresses the airbag. The Latin American Duster airbag on the other hand was a larger size and covered the head and chest of the driver".

Another example of selective bias. Every car going through NCAP will have multiple comments. Look at the overall rating and what competition has to offer.

[The Rationalist]

I don’t understand why do owners get upset at genuine criticism! I own a Ford Aspire and it has lot of short comings like light build and poor parts quality. I don’t get hurt when someone is calling a spade a spade! Aspire was the best compromise for me, that doesn’t make it the best car by any means. Similarly Captur maybe the one for your needs, but please don’t bring to the table arguments like its the best SUV/ Crossover in the segment.

And please don’t be under the impression that all Indians except you are living under a rock, so as not to judge the worth of a car. World over the real test of any product is its acceptability by the consumer. If they reject it,it is a FLOP. Period. Ask Windows what happened to their Mobile phones or Apple about Lisa. In a public forum like ours, be ready to accept genuine views however unappealing it might be. The members aren’t under any obligation to please the owners.

[Yeldo]

I have seen the car, and feel that it is a good product on its own.

Whether I would choose it over the Hyundai Creta, my answer would be a no. 90 out of 100 prospective buyers would also agree with me.

The market segment itself is large enough for Renault to grab that remaining 10% and do meaningful volumes, but then the company seems to have seriously botched up their launch / positioning strategy.

I feel Renault maybe got confused with the Captur.

The Duster Diesel is sold at 9.5x L to 12.5x L range, ex showroom. The Captur Diesel goes at 11.5x L to 14.xx L price band. These two are too close for two vehicles of the same class sold from the same showroom.

Renault may have originally intended to position the Captur substantially up in the ladder. But then Jeep launched the 2WD Compass Diesel in the 16.xx L to 19.xx L range, putting Renault in a tight spot. So they had to ensure that the Captur stayed below the 15L mark. If not for the Compass, the 15 - 20L band would have only the Mahindra XUV 2WD M/T (13 - 17L) as a serious competitor.

So Renault were left scratching their heads, and ended up squarely in the Creta (10L to 14.xx L) territory.

Whether a car which doesn't sell well in the 11.5x L to 14.xx L price band would have sold at all if priced in the 15L + range is a moot question.

And, even though Renault may name their product in any way they like, the attempt at bestowing the Captur the accolades won by an unrelated product' in some other market was a poor decision. It was a rather poor a strategy just like trying to save some money by offering smaller sized airbags on the Indian Duster.

The Brezza and Creta may be hatches on stilts, Maruti may be as unethical as any other manufacturer, Hyundai service maybe daylight robbery, but in the end, these are just lame excuses for the mediocre product and the botched up marketing that Renault put forward with the Captur.

In this age, consumers are an alert and aware lot. If Renault do not offer them anything more substantial than the established and entrenched competition like Maruti or Hyundai, then why would the buyers select Renault over them?

To sum up, there is no compelling reason to buy a Captur over, say, a Creta. It is that simple and straightforward.

[deehunk]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

I don’t understand why do owners get upset at genuine criticism! I own a Ford Aspire and it has lot of short comings like light build and poor parts quality.
In a public forum like ours, be ready to accept genuine views however unappealing it might be. The members aren’t under any obligation to please the owners.

I agree with you, as fellow member Yeldo pointed out, the margins are very tight in the 10 lakhs segment. My personal view is that Renault India needs its own space to work, am not sure that it is happening now.

[motorworks]

My view is that The Captur not doing well in India is nothing to do with lack of marketing effort, pricing or even the whole Captur vs Kaptur debate.

The whole thing boils down to how it looks and the acceptability of a cross over kind of design in the Indian market.

I am in the market for a 12-15 lakh car and I have checked out every other car in this price point right from sedans to SUVs, except the Captur! In person the vehicle is very deceiving, somehow the height and width does not come thru even though it is supposed to be the same size or even bigger than the Duster. Not that I dropped this from my list due to the looks, but it was a factor. And secondly Renault has been playing unnecessary games like the SRP Airbags etc.

Just look at the S-Cross, in spite of having the reach it could not do well. But the moment it has gotten a slight facelift there seems to be a slight change In acceptability.

I just think Renault read the market wrong. And it was a huge mistake. They themselves did a SUV inspired design in the Kwid, saw its success story and later think customers will accept a cross over design!

Failure of the Captur has nothing to do with its capability or it being fundamentally a decent car like the Duster and also very well priced. But the looks did it in.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by volkman10

----

Ironically the CAPTUR in Europe is the largest selling Crossover.

Here is how the CAPTUR (ORIGINAL) fared in EUROPE.

Crossover styling is also market dependent. In Europe it works out well. It outsells Duster, Renegade, Vitara, etc.

[deehunk]

Originally Posted by motorworks

The whole thing boils down to how it looks and the acceptability of a cross over kind of design in the Indian market.

Just look at the S-Cross, in spite of having the reach it could not do well. But the moment it has gotten a slight facelift there seems to be a slight change In acceptability.

I just think Renault read the market wrong. And it was a huge mistake.

Nice understanding of the failed strategy, only Renault can answer why a SUV had to resemble a hatchback. Duster is still the best looking vehicle in comparison. The pricing factor matters, Yeldo has nicely analysed the complication.

[C300]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

I don’t understand why do owners get upset at genuine criticism!

I don't think anyone is upset here. These are just counter arguments to add it to the discussion

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

World over the real test of any product is its acceptability by the consumer. If they reject it,it is a FLOP. Period.

IMO, its not that simple. It just makes the product popular not necessarily superior. That logic will make Bollywood dance/music pinnacle of art form

Originally Posted by motorworks

The whole thing boils down to how it looks and the acceptability of a cross over kind of design in the Indian market.

Valid point. Softer styling may not be suitable for our market.

Originally Posted by deehunk

Duster is still the best looking vehicle in comparison.

+1

[SandyX]

IMHO

If Dodge brings the Grand Caravan to India & starts calling it the Charger, would we the sane ones start calling so too? Nop. Same should go with Renault here. High time this thread's title be changed to "Kaptur" to reflect the truth.

This thing has got no USP, absolutely none whatsoever. I just don't see it. They call it an SUV without even an AWD where the joke starts. Remember it's already built on Duster platform which sports an AWD. They could've launched AWD Kaptur on Day-1 to place it above the rest. Then the lying & getting caught pants down, and the audacity to stick to the lies even after. I get a feeling their French unit is being kept in the dark by the shady Indians running it here.

Though I've to give it to them for being kinda stylish & all but superficial aspects like that won't boil down to acceptance. Being Renault, I'm sure it rides well. Where they got all wrong is overpricing it by several lacs when only SUVish profiles could get away with that in India.

India would flock back to them for the revised Duster. Sorry Kaptur, you ain't got no welcome here.

[deehunk]

Originally Posted by SandyX

High time this thread's title be changed to "Kaptur" to reflect the truth.
I get a feeling their French unit is being kept in the dark by the shady Indians running it here.
Being Renault, I'm sure it rides well. Where they got all wrong is overpricing it by several lacs when only SUVish profiles could get away with that in India.

It is not easy to hide such issues from the eyes of Carlos Ghosn, the recent surge in ads is a last minute attempt to save some jobs.

[vishnurp99]

Originally Posted by SandyX

IMHO
If Dodge brings the Grand Caravan to India & starts calling it the Charger, would we the sane ones start calling so too? Nop. Same should go with Renault here. High time this thread's title be changed to "Kaptur" to reflect the truth.

I have called this out before but let me do it again. IMHO lot of unnecessary energy is spent on Captur vs Kaptur criticism. Captur refers to two different cars for Renault. Lots of other car makers like Skoda, Suzuki and VW have done this. For eg - Octavia 1st gen was called Octavia and the second gen was called Laura. The Octavia model was still being sold when second gen octavia was sold as Laura.

To be fair to Renault, this "conjob" (if that is what it is) is not exclusive to India.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Captur

It's called Captur in Brazil & Argentina, Russia and India. The european spec clio based Captur is not sold in any of these markets.

Now in Russia, the alphabet 'c' sounds like "s" in sam. This is from the Russian tutorial given below. The alphabet 'K' in russian sounds like 'c' in Cat. That is the reason it's spelled as 'Kaptur' only in Russia.

http://www.russianlessons.net/lesson...1_alphabet.php

[Sachin Bhatt]

Originally Posted by deehunk

Renault was found cheating Indian market with smaller airbags on Indian Duster, no clarification given even after getting caught. Buying a car is purely individual choice, creating awareness has got nothing to do with targeting a brand.
The reason for their flop show is pricing, it is better to reduce the price rather than sell cars with heavy discounts through out the year. I see them fading away like GM who too showed indifferent attitude for Indian market.

Find the extent of brickbats being showered on Renault India a little too harsh and I honestly dread that its being overdone to the extent of this coming across as inconsistent or biased. Because we have for years accepted substandard (read low on safety) cars from the likes of Maruti, which have never had any Safety Ratings. Skoda was a dead brand, that was bought over and sold by VW. When launched, VW brought Skoda into India first and not VW products. We embraced it with open arms. I remember Octavia not having airbags except in the topmost model. Even today, there are models like Honda Mobilio (and VW polo and Ford Figo, but I agree they are smaller cars and hence not comparable segment-wise) which are launched without airbags, which have 0 star NCAP ratings...and the one with the airbags has 3 star rating, which matches that of the Duster with the ‘smaller’ airbags. Renault has atleast retained the basic safety features even in the entry level variants..which means all variants get 2 airbags atleast. Moreover, the Brazil based Captur received a 4 star rating, and we can safely assume that even if the airbags are smaller in the India version that the Brazil version, it would at least get a 3 star.

I own a Skoda Yeti. And the spec of the Skoda yeti sold in India never matched that of the Skoda Yeti being sold in UK...for starters, there it started with a 6 bag variant, while in India you had the Ambiente which came with 2 airbags. But Skoda never mentioned a word that the two, though sharing the same name, were different. And there are many such examples in the Auto world.

I have to add here that NCAP ratings consider the impact to occupants due to direct collision, without taking into account the reasons for impact in the first place. So you have a 4 star rated Creta for eg with extremely light steering wheel, and a 3 star rated Captur with much harder steering. If you would’ve analysed the reasons for crashes/ accidents in real life along highways (which is equivalent to the 64kmph speed at which the tests are done), you will know that the biggest reasons for accidents are people losing control at high speeds. Would you still consider the Creta to be a 20% safer car than Captur? I am asking because I had this same question for myself when I test drove both the Creta and the Captur a few weeks ago, and after having driven cars for over 15 years across terrains, I felt safer in the Captur than a Creta as I drive along highways a lot.

When Creta received a 4 star rating in the Latin NCAP ratings in late 2015, we were all gung-ho about it on this forum. And when there have been results of Captur having received 4 star ratings again in the Latin NCAP, there is no word about it being spoken.

Calls for a bit more levelheadedness at our end, I would say.