[quadmaniac]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

Keyword: incremental. Something that costs 11,10,000 INR would now cost 11,99,999. That's an extra 1L for the same but no one sees that (Bata pricing strategy).

No offence, but IMHO, everyone notices a 90k hike, the Bata strategy doesn't work here.

I agree with the rest of what you say though - Honda should price it well, given the recent battering from the likes of Ciaz etc.

In fact I agree that the SV is decently spec'ed. But take a look at Maruti. The base+1 model (VXi+) comes to 9.6 on road (hyd). And it includes a better looking integrated audio unit, reverse parking sensors and all the basics safety wise. The Ciaz is a really tempting package and their recent sales numbers prove this.

If Honda is stupid enough to increase every variant by 50k (say), they WILL lose the game here.

[mxh]

Originally Posted by quadmaniac

No offence, but IMHO, everyone notices a 90k hike, the Bata strategy doesn't work here.

I agree with the rest of what you say though - Honda should price it well, given the recent battering from the likes of Ciaz etc.

In fact I agree that the SV is decently spec'ed. But take a look at Maruti. The base+1 model (VXi+) comes to 9.6 on road (hyd). And it includes a better looking integrated audio unit, reverse parking sensors and all the basics safety wise. The Ciaz is a really tempting package and their recent sales numbers prove this.

If Honda is stupid enough to increase every variant by 50k (say), they WILL lose the game here.

Ciaz is not a direct competitor of City. When it's petrol engine is 33% less powerful that makes it a different product altogether. I'm getting fed up of seeing such posts. Anyone who buys a Ciaz is only buying for price with a budget, and no other redeeming factors and everyone knows that. I know people who have bought a lower model of City because they understand this, but unfortunately I need to explain it to you. Next you'd compare a BMW 3-series with a City. Just case they are of the same size, doesn't make them direct competitors of one another.

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[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by mxh

Ciaz is not a direct competitor of City.

What makes you say that? They're both in the same segment, so it's fair to compare them as competitors.

When it's petrol engine is 33% less powerful that makes it a different product altogether.

Different? Yes (all cars are). No-compete? Nope.

That engine-based logic would pull down the Corolla Altis D-4D into the entry-level sedan segments. Or would it? Bad example I know but a car is more than just its motor.

Anyone who buys a Ciaz is only buying for price with a budget, and no other redeeming factors and everyone knows that

Wide sweeping generalization, without knowing what someone's actual requirements are. You may not like it but the 1.5 iVTEC isn't always the top priority of even actual City buyers (or the City diesel wouldn't have any takers). You and I would buy one just for the sweet motor, but you and I are not EVERYONE.

Everyone buying a City should be put in the same 'don't have enough money and not a true petrolhead' bracket by your logic, when comparing to what's available for a few extra lakhs?

I know people who have bought a lower model of City because they understand this

Correction. They care more for the motor than the bling, I being one such myself. More power to them but that has nothing to do with the other product being necessarily inferior, just that particular customer's preferences being different.

If his future does have a Ciaz and it meets his requirements (which may not include a manic-at-the-redline motor), why is that an issue?

Not every petrol-head is a rev-head. You love your motors (so do I), someone else probably likes to cruise sedately all day in comfort with an 'adequate' motor. Everyone has their own poison.

[Ruchir031]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Not every petrol-head is a rev-head. You love your motors (so do I), someone else probably likes to cruise sedately all day in comfort with an 'adequate' motor. Everyone has their own poison.

Very well said, I absolutely agree with you!

A year ago I was in a similar spot for picking my first sedan, The only 2 cars in my mind were City and Ciaz, I had even booked the Ciaz because it was giving a very difficult competition to the City and because of it's pricing even winning it!
I was saving over a lakh going for the top model Ciaz over the City V and it made sense to me, I mean, if I can why not, 1 lakh is a good amount of money to save for a product of similar quality. But eventually the rev-head in me said this is not a car which will be driven by my driver, I will be driving it so I should actually get to enjoy my ride which I wasn't with the Ciaz because that wasn't my poison hence I went with the City.

That being said, Ciaz is the biggest competitor City currently has in this segment and it'll only depend on what your expectations and requirements are going to be from your ride.

[CarguyNish]

This may sound a bit off topic,

May I ask this,

Instead of debating which car is better and which car is cheaper and all, why just can't we buy a car based on our Priorities/Preferences ?

Wouldn't that be more simpler & more accurate decision ?

I like each & every car in the Segment (This & Other as well), what's more, each have thier own USPs. Isn't that required to do Business ? If every car was same, then only one of them would sell. That would result in other companies shutting down.

If that was the case, we wouldn't have been seeing so many cars on the planet.

The biggest reason why the difference in opinion occurs, is because of comparison.

Coming back to the cars in question,

The City has always been a Driver's Delight. So, engine & Gearbox is its main USP, but the 4th Gen one scored high in terms of Equipment List & Space.

The Ciaz is a well priced Sedan, I say well priced not because it's Cheaper then Rivals, but because to be this successful Maruti had to price it extremely well. Thier Learnings from Old Baleno, SX4, Kizashi made them not to repeat this mistake.

When a car is priced cheap, every person's eye is lit. "Arrey, itne kam paise me itna zyda mile rahahe na" is the reaction. This happens only when price is low.

Here in Ciaz case, it's like any other car. It's nice styled (So are others too), it's spacious (so are others), it's well equipped (so are others), it has good dynamics (so are others). I have not considered the after sales & Reasle because that comes in ownership part rather then product (Car). So, there is nothing that the Ciaz has to kill the competition. It's just that the price has made it a Better pick amongst others.

So, if one has to choose a car, it would be based on what they want & what the car offers in return.

Cheers.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by mxh

Ciaz is not a direct competitor of City. When it's petrol engine is 33% less powerful that makes it a different product altogether. I'm getting fed up of seeing such posts.

Based on this logic - Would be interesting if Ciaz gets the 1.6 diesel as rumoured.

Would that put Ciaz petrol in lower segment than City petrol, but Ciaz diesel in higher segment than City diesel?

Engine capacity and power is only one of the factors while comparing cars. City petrol and diesel both are not the class leading in power when it comes to sedans in that price band anyways.

[RavenAvi]

The 2017 City's ZX variant and it's illumination prowess all around - LED headlamps + DRLs, LED foglamps and tail-light LED sections.

From Facebook.

[agambhandari]

These LED headlamps look like the best update. Its about time these were democratised (unlike the 2 lacs option that Audi A6 used to come with, just a few years back).

And with looks like these, I think honda has almost killed any hope for the civic, which looks nearly the same( The front fascia). Although Autocar reports it is still coming.

Now waiting for the price annoucements.

[Highh5]

Keeping the prospective prices in mind, now it seems like Ciaz and City both belongs to the completely different category.
Vento and City, both of them costs more than 13 lakh ex-showroom(top-spec) is almost comparable to Chevrolet Cruze now.
Seriously speaking, Cruze with 2.0 litre engine, 166PS power and monstrous 360Nm TORQUE along with a lot of gizmos looks alot value for money now. No matter how old it is, it still turns head and grab eye balls.
Updates now a days seems like a reason for inflating the prices rather then armouring their cars with more features or technological updates.

[yeshu2016]

If city has to take on ciaz they should be expanding their dealership network first. The facelift doesnot make any differences to the engine. None of the above problems have been addressed and i donot think the city numbers are going to change much except for a few big initial numbers for a few months

[OSH]

Originally Posted by yeshu2016

If city has to take on ciaz they should be expanding their dealership network first. The facelift doesnot make any differences to the engine. None of the above problems have been addressed.

Honda has already got quite an extensive dealership network throughout the country, it may not be as huge as MSIL but this was never a problem. In fact Honda is one of the best when it comes to showroom experiences/after-sale services.

Regarding no changes made to the engines, the Vtec engines are the most fun to drive and sometimes is the sole reason to buy a Honda, why would they change something that is their main USP, a 6th gear would be welcome but the current 5 speed manual is not bad in any way. Even in case of the iDtec engine, the engine itself is fine enough however NVH levels needs to be looked at but nothing wrong with the engine as a whole. Both engines are highly reliable.

The main problems people had with the pre-facelift City were the niggles arising due to drop in quality standards and some people found the ride a little harsh at low speeds, we cannot comment upon both of the above problems until we see/drive the facelift today.

[mxh]

Originally Posted by agambhandari

These LED headlamps look like the best update. Its about time these were democratised (unlike the 2 lacs option that Audi A6 used to come with, just a few years back).

And with looks like these, I think honda has almost killed any hope for the civic, which looks nearly the same( The front fascia). Although Autocar reports it is still coming.

Now waiting for the price annoucements.

From what I read the Civic 2017 is an all new model internally and externally and if the one that comes to India is like the one that was recently launched in the US, it looks quite radically different. Hope they bring the new Honda turbo engines though.
Anyone knows what's the color temperature of those new headlights? They look pretty cool but yellow light is supposed to be better in poor visibility condition though.

[Karthik Chandra]

Originally Posted by mxh

Ciaz is not a direct competitor of City. When it's petrol engine is 33% less powerful that makes it a different product altogether. I'm getting fed up of seeing such posts.

So by your logic, the Verna is also not a direct competitor to City.

Verna 1.6 CRDi has 28% more power than iDTEC, but the City iDTEC is 11% more powerful than the Verna 1.4 CRDi.

One can also argue that Verna comes with 2 petrol and 2 diesel engine options, also offers petrol and diesel A/T, so it competes in a different segment.

In this case how do you place them?

The City, Ciaz, Verna, Vento and Rapid compete in the same segment under C2 category.

Your logic is not justifiable.

[quadmaniac]

Launch is now live at https://www.hondacarindia.com/NewCity/

[RavenAvi]

All prices, ex-showroom Delhi.

Highlights:

Source - Twitterati



Quite a premium price range for the CVT/i-DTEC variants, but then the City brand has always commanded a premium over it's competition. Now, whether the brand is still strong enough with today's markets to pull in resounding sales and make it the numero uno in it's segment & class, remains to be seen.

Testing times ahead for the 2017 Honda City.