[farooq817]

I checked the Hyundai UK site for the price difference between the 1.2L 84PS Manual and the 1.4L 100PS Automatic prices across each trim available there. The below image shows a bit of those details. As we can see, the price difference is just about 1100GBP which translates to around 1 lakh rupees. Ofcourse we have an additional 12% of excise duty (20% rather than 8%) due to the 1.4L engine but I do not think that it would increase the price of the car by another 1.5 lakhs. Sheer greed having seen the response they have got for the Elite i20 and Creta.

[aravind.anand]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

What if I need a true Premium Hatch with fresh European looks (Polo goes out), unmatched interiors (Baleno) goes out), doesn't reek built-to-cost feel (Jazz) and most importantly if my colleagues, friends, neighbours or relatives have one and which gets them bragging rights.

Who knows Hyundai keeps us all busy thinking about this and suddenly they launch that DSG type 6-speed A/T in response to Baleno 1L A/T.

Simply put, even if you want only the i20, and walk into the Hyundai showroom, you still would need some proper justification for paying 2.5-3L over the Magna MT and get this 4 speed AT! Even the fully loaded diesel would be within reach at this price point.
i20 is my favourite premium hatch BTW, and I have personally recommended the diesel i20 to many a friends, but this pricing is just greed, not logic.

- The classic Polo with its European looks goes out, that too on account of not looking European enough like then i20?? Heck, its the only affordable AT European hatch we got here in India

[carwatcher]

Yes because you just chose to ignore the word 'Fresh' in my post.

I have based my opinion on the numerous posts on the Polo and other VW cars thread mentioning the dated looks. At the same time Hyundai has introduced so many yummy looking i20 versions.

Originally Posted by aravind.anand

- The classic Polo with its European looks goes out, that too on account of not looking European enough like then i20?? Heck, its the only affordable AT European hatch we got here in India

[baskar]

This pricing is ridiculous to say the least. I own an i20 Petrol Asta manual. What a delightful vehicle !!. Agreed it is not very powerful but for regular city driving and office commute, it offers a premium experience. Magna is bare bone and Hyundai may have wanted to keep the price within 10L and hence launched this AT.
Sure case of failure.

[Karthik Chandra]

Comparison between AT hatchbacks (pls click on the images to have a better view)



I have taken few features that most people would look for in a car



# The i20 fares poorly with the most no. of 'N's, lack of creature comfort that people look for these days are absent even after paying so much

# i20 is the costliest AT hatch considering the Polo with turbocharged motor and more features is just 4K more

# The only feature that the magna has over competition is the rear A/C vents

# Figo is the most powerful AT

# Micra is the only one with a 3 cylinder motor

# Baleno has the highest ARAI rating of 21.34 following by Jazz and Micra

# i20 is the only TC AT and a 4 speed one

# The Baleno Zeta variant and the GT TSI are the models with good features

The Baleno Zeta sits bang in the middle of the price range and appears to be the most VFM (feature rich)

The Polo GT GT also fares well considering the premium motor and feature list.

What Hyundai could have done?

They could have launched the AT mated to the CRDi which would have made it unique. Even at a higher price it would have been accepted and they could have leveraged the first mover advantage.

Or

They could have launched the Magna AT with more features to justify the 3 lac premium over MT. The inclusion of features like ACC, ESP, Hill hold, alloys would have negated the price comparisons to an extent

Missed opportunity

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by Karthik Chandra

Comparison between AT hatchbacks (pls click on the images to have a better view)

Polo GT has an auto irvm now - there is a mistake in the list. Also has rain sensing wipers which are not present in anything else in that segment.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by smartcat

However, it is very likely that 4-speed AT will not "hunt for gears" as much as 6-speed AT, especially in city traffic and in ghats. Simply because there are less gears for the gearbox to choose from.

The part where you mentioned that the torque efficiency of a smaller engine mated to a 4 speed box being more optimal in the initial stages than the bigger engine to a 6 speed box is true, but there's less to that when we're talking of TC, as compared to DSG.

We're talking of a torque converter here, its a hydro-mechanical setup compared to the "mechatronics" setup of a dual-clutch gearbox. I'll try to elaborate to the best I can about why I don't mind this "ancient" torque converter system.. simply because I'm a fan of pure-er mechanisms. Basically the torque converter has 3 components, the impeller connected to the engine, the stator in-between, and the turbine which is connected to the drive line. When the impeller rotates, it creates a centrifugal action which dispels the hydraulic fluid from the outer wheel of the impeller into the turbine, the turbine also begins to spin and then re-sends the fluid through the stator, the stator regulates the flow such that the impeller receives it sequentially to re-direct the fluid back into the turbine thus adding to the torque. Many such cycles later the speed of both the components become on par thus eliminating torque wastage and getting into optimal speed. Now here too there is an electronic control unit PCM (modulates engine & transmission) but its quite simple compared to a mechatronics unit and it regulates the fluid flow in the lock-up clutch system of the TC.

The dual clutch.. well this video should give a good idea :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj1Vk7SE-TI

Its so complex its downright scary, the mechatronics unit has to be programmed to perfection and that's impossible so they devised a learning unit into it to study the unique driver inputs. This is where the concept of "hunting" gears come from, this really needs to understand what the driver wants to get done before selecting one up or one down, essentially the clutches are active most of the time hence this dilemma. In comparison normal torque converters do not have that pressure to instantaneously predict which clutch or gears to activate is its more simple, simply put its for everyday driving and city driving. The DSG's original intention was to be an out and out performer, hence its far more expensive, complex and advanced.

For the past 4-5 years I've only being doing city driving and have hardly crossed 60-70, that too during certain hours. The city that we live in has become congested beyond recognition and in peak hours even 20-25 kmph will be good luck, for such needs this gearbox will more than suffice. As for the i20 Auto pricing, yes its off by a lakh.. even I know that.

[PearlJam]

Any idea why Hyundai isn't launching the automatic in the diesel variant? I would expect the beautiful 1.4 CRDI performing reasonably well with a torque converter.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Honda can actually make the most of this but they are another sleeping giant these days. All they have to do is get the Jazz with the 1.5L City engine and CVT both of which are available in the City in India

Agree. With the 1.5 I-VTEC and CVT, Honda should launch a performance version of the Jazz. I think Honda worries that the Jazz with a 1.5 might take away some customers (maybe 5-10%) from the City.

There couldn't be a better time than nowto launch the Jazz 1.5. Dear Honda, cash in on this opportunity.

The Jazz can give customers what they really wanted- A powerful, reliable car (an aspect in which the Polo is not very good at) and a comfortable car (an aspect the Punto is not great at.)

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

We just have to accept the price as the excise duty for a 1.4 l petrol will be high.

I have to take back my words. The Hyundai i20 is ridiculously expensive. I realized it after seeing the chart put up by RavenAvi. It's dangerously close (or more expensive) the Ciaz and Ertiga which offer much more value. The Abarth punto and VW Polo GT TSI can be excused at this price considering the amount of technology they pack into the car.

Originally Posted by PearlJam

Any idea why Hyundai isn't launching the automatic in the diesel variant? I would expect the beautiful 1.4 CRDI performing reasonably well with a torque converter.

They won't considering the final price it'll cost the customer. Not too many will be willing to pay a lot for a diesel hatchback.

[ZMG]

Hyundai, you have shocked me!
I know Elite i20 is great, but come on, for a 4 speed that price?

I will any day close my eyes, (pray to god), and buy the Polo GT.

What is worse, is that if Hyundai does manage to sell a few thousand of these, it is the consumers who will suffer, as a new trend in the market gets set, charging atrocious premium for crappy auto transmissions.

It will be like how the latest iPhone is priced today in India.
Sigh

[kiransg]

I think Hyundai has done what Honda did when the first launched the Jazz years ago. That Jazz pricing had made i20 look like a value proposition & rest was history. Will it work the other way around this time? i20 automatic price makes Jazz CVT look like a value buy now. Only time will tell!!

[aviraj]

Originally Posted by AkMar

Wow. This is absolute shocker of a price! What were those guys thinking while deciding the price? And how did the bosses approve it? 10+ lakhs OTR for Magna variant is just ripoff.

RavenAvi, thanks a lot for posting the price comparison. It gives interesting insights. Ertiga VXi, inspite of being more than 4 meters in length, is cheaper than the i20! Features of both would be comparable, give or take a couple of them. Ertiga offers ABS which is not offered on i20 Magna.

Hyundai has got it totally wrong this time

People said Hyundai have got it absolutely wrong when they priced the Creta. But it is selling like hot cakes

People are now saying that they have got the price of i20 AT absolutely wrong. But dont be surprised if it sells reasonably well as well since i20 right now is best in class in terms of the overall package

Now looking at the pricing trend, the Tucson is going to give us some shockers as well when it tries to compete in the Fortuner category with another ridiculous price tag

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by aviraj

People said Hyundai have got it absolutely wrong when they priced the Creta. But it is selling like hot cakes

The car will sell in a very small number. But comparison with the Creta is not correct.

The Creta's competitors are nowhere close when it comes to quality and design. I don't consider the Ford Ecosport a direct competitor (due to it's size), the Duster is too bland and the S-Cross is struggling due to it's bland exterior looks (and the initial pricing disaster for the 1.6.)

If you look at the i20's case, the Jazz and Baleno are actually more spacious and have got bigger boots. They are not a Toyota Etios in terms of interior design as well. What further weakens the i20's case is that the Ciaz, Ertiga, a Polo GT TSI (with advanced technology), and a fully loaded Ecosport AT are priced in the vicinity.

These 4 cars make the pricing of the barebones i20 look like daylight robbery. The Creta OTOH, has much more value than a Duster and S-Cross. (Although I would pick the S-Cross anyday )

[roamer012]

Here is what I think (From the perspective of an Indian buyer):
While going car hunting, I look for:
1. Looks
2. Looks (LOOKS) yes, you read it right (One from my perspective and one from the Family's)
4. No. of accessories available with CHROME
3. Features
4. Non-Asian Car manufacturers are usually out to get you while servicing your vehicles (Which might not be that far off the mark) however if I may say so servicing a Hyundai is also really not that cheap.
4. Mileage (Why is it down the list? well because now a days most of the manufacturers are targeting above 20kmpl thus not much of a differentiator)
5. Alright if you say so, how powerful it is??? Why should I have more power, it would be more dangerous to drive around, then you will go on and sell me those airbags as well. Well, I say No thank you, sir. Plus it will be inversely proportional to point no. 4.
6. Huyndai is more premium than Maruti (Just like the war between Samsung and LG)
7. Sorry Ford, no matter what you throw at us (Legendary Fiesta, Ikon, Figo, Figo Twins, New Endy, Ecosport) you will always be as good as your first cars (Ford Escort and Mondeo)

Now look back and see that why despite all the issues with pricing why do Creta, Verna (Ok not now but in hay days), I20, I10 Grand, Xcent, i10 sell. They are definitely not cheaper to maintain (Comparing the routine services and discounting major component failure) than say Maruti or even Ford.
And yes I admit Hyundai's fit and finish are immaculate (Which has always come up even in T-Bhp's official reviews of almost every car) but are the vehicles really ever so engaging to drive (Style over Substance) or are they really doing enough for the safety of occupants (If memory serves me right Hyundai went from 6 airbags to 2 in i20) like choosing Magna variant in this particular case at the price point of 9 Lacs rupees.

A few examples of yesteryears:
Ikon, Sienna never stood against Accent
Palio, Polo, Figo never stood against i20
Fiesta (Last gen which even introduced Aston Martin Grill in facelift),Vento,Sunny never stood against Verna
S-Cross is a dud but Creta is bringing in the numbers Hyundai had envisioned
And mind you All the above mentioned Hyundai Products have no major flaw or eye-sore and have a rather impressive build quality other than Fun to drive quotient which is again a subjective issue.
If we remove Maruti's first mover advantage in people moving segment (Maruti 800 et al.) then, Even the mighty Maruti Suzuki group would have been a distant number 2 compared to Hyundai.

Please note: This post is in no way written to offend current and prospective Hyundai owners. Buying a vehicle is a unique process and each of us looks for the perfect one as per our needs and most of all as per the supply of Vitamin M.

[HVSC]

Originally Posted by roamer012

Here is what I think (From the perspective of an Indian buyer):
7. Sorry Ford, no matter what you throw at us (Legendary Fiesta, Ikon, Figo, Figo Twins, New Endy, Ecosport) you will always be as good as your first cars (Ford Escort and Mondeo)

M.

Truer words were never spoken. Still haunted by the ghosts of the past.