Team-BHP - Japanese or European cars? Whats your pick in India?

Quote:

Originally Posted by devarshi84

Benq-siemens: Siemens is the Engineering expert while Benq markets the product

Sonyericsson: Ericsson is the engineering Expert while Sony markets the product

Renault-Nissan: Renault is the more technologically sound giant while Nissan provides Marketing and cost efficienct

TCL-Alcatel: Alcatel provides the engineering genius while TCL is marketing the phones.

Offtopic, but I thought BenQ is from Taiwan, Sony brought the UI and the exterior design engineering to the Sony Ericsson table and I belive Nissan has the technology but Renault brought cost efficienty (in form of Ghosn).

Coming back to the topic, one can sell FMCG products with pure marketing and hype for some time but high value products like cars etc can't be sold with just marketing and hype. True the brand matters but it can only be built on solid foundations.

It is the strength of Japanese companies to make high quality products at lower costs. They were missing on the style quotient before, but look at Swift and Civic now. In my opinion both Civic and Swift convey the feel of better build quality as well.

If I was paying for it I would go japanese.
If I was gifted a car with free service and spares, then definately European any day!

Japanese cars have "reliability" and "clockwork efficiency". But they lack emotion(Except for a few like the Sky"Time" and EVO).
European cars have a character. German cars exclude ruthlessness and brutual efficiency(Porsche, BMW). Italian cars exclude passion(Can any car ignite more passion than a ferrari?), French cars exclude boredom(Peugot, Citreon). British cars exclude repulsion.
On the other hands Japanese cars are machines. They will take you from point A to point B in the best possible fashion with least amount of fuss and trouble.

On a side note : There have been songs written for mercedes and ferrari, but can anyone sing a song about a Toyota camry?

For the sake of convenience, I'll go by GTO's choices of cars to compare:

Octavia V/S Corolla - Corolla because it's reliable and doesn't hit you below the belt with Skoda A.S.S. RS doesn't count because it's half a car more expensive.

Palio V/S Swift/Getz - Palio because it's got a great engine and an emotional quotient that the others don't. However that's just my preference. In the real world I'd buy the Swift/Getz and avoid Fiat/Tata dealer****s (sic)

Camry V/S C Class - Camry anyday. C Class is overrated. Had an S Class for a week, and yes, it is a fabulous car, but the C Class is just a little midget pretender that costs more than it's worth and delivers too little (no offense GTO or other owners, just IMO).

Overall I guess when it comes to value I'm all Jap, but if you're looking at class and exotica then you can't touch European.

@ Shantanu : Its a good thing you prefer Jap. With the way you drive, a Euro car would leave high $$$ bills for you.

@Boom Shiva. To each his own. But just to clarify....You say you have driven the S, Have you driven the C at length? And by this...I do mean the new C. Also, what does the C not deliver according to you? Except for limited rear room space...I cant think of anything. It has the power, depth of engineering, technology, bells and whistles...pretty much everything.

My opinion was the same as yours when I had the C180. But then...the 220 happened. And the 220 is an entirely different beast.

(Only) Japanese cars anyday.

Those that said that a Jap car will fall apart after 5 years, obviously do not have any idea of what they are talking about. We used an M800 (lowliest of the Jap cars) for 20 years and when we sold it, it still wore the original paint with a decent gleam, had no tinkering anywhere, was reliable enough for me to just jump in anyday and do a straight drive to Kerala without any issues and returned 20+ FE on highways. Infact, the buyer would not believe that we had not done any body work on the car. If I did not sell it, I am sure it would have gone on for another decade or more.

For those that said that Jap cars are just hype/marketing, I hope they know that no product can survive for long with just hype. In the long run, it is the inherent strengths that ensure growth and the Japs have proved that everywhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

@Boom Shiva. To each his own. But just to clarify....You say you have driven the S, Have you driven the C at length? And by this...I do mean the new C. Also, what does the C not deliver according to you? Except for limited rear room space...I cant think of anything. It has the power, depth of engineering, technology, bells and whistles...pretty much everything.

My opinion was the same as yours when I had the C180. But then...the 220 happened. And the 220 is an entirely different beast.

Hi, I have driven the C200K. My initial impression was, "is this it?"

The car just doesn't deliver according to the hype. It's cramped, not really very powerful, and Mercedes quality/reliability is not worth the premium anymore IMO.

If you're going to sell a C class car at more than twice the cost of any other C segmenter and a lot more than even a D segmenter, then it needs to justify itself beyond just being a Mercedes.

I've driven and been driven in some really nice Mercs, which fully deserve the respect they get, but the C Class doesn't feel like its in the same league. More like a budget mini me version of the real thing.

I read your writeup on your C220 which sounded great, so maybe that's a car I need to drive.

Japanese for me please. I dont like to spend too much money on something when I can get an equivalent or (in this case) better product for less.

Euro cars are good for Euro environments. Bring on hot weather, uneven roads and staccato traffic conditions and its the Jap cars that survive longer. Euro cars IMHO have been hyped beyond their actual value - good build quality is build quality that LASTS and this is where the Japs are so good. Euro cars FEEL good but once they've covered about 3-4 years they do not last as well - they creak and groan while the Japs still purr on.

The only area where the europeans are still ahead are in handling, and this in my opinion is because they can afford to have firm suspensions for their smooth roads. Take them on roads that are anything less than smooth and you can feel the suspension boom from those firm springs - take the Palio, Fusion or Mondeo for example.

Finally, take any European manufacturer and you will find that the MAJORITY of their sales are from Europe. I am not talking Luxury cars here because the Japs arent there yet, Lexus or otherwise, even though they're getting there. Peugeot, Citroen and Renault sell MOSTLY in France. Fiat sells in Italy. Seat sells in Spain (okay, they're VW now). Only VW sells everywhere, and Rover never sold anywhere.

Why is this so? Why is it that Euro cars do very well in Europe and are sometimes hardly present elsewhere, while Jap, Korean and American cars find the going tough in Europe? This is the Fortress Europe syndrome, seen not just in automobiles, but also in software, services, aeronautical engineering or just about any other industry - Europe is a cartel, a protected cartel. They keep changing the rules of the game to keep others out - which is why you have such stringent legislation in Europe. Every time the others catch up, Europe changes its rules and WHO gets to implement the changes first ? No surprises here - its the Euro manufacturers. This has happened so many times in the past that it lends credence to the claims of other manufacturers that the Euro boys get advance notice of the changes or even get to frame the rules themselves.

In contrast, take a look at Japanese and Korean manufacturers - do they sell more of their cars at HOME, or abroad?

To conclude:

If you want reliability, stay with the Japs.

If you want smooth engines that last forever, stay with the Japs.

If you want good, reliable and cheap service and spares, stay with the Japs.

If you want the latest technology delivered at your doorstep with the rest of the world, stay with the Japs.

If you want the latest technology at competitive prices, stay with the Japs.

If you want a firm ride with great handling, go ride Go Karts on the weekend.

If you want a heavy build, buy American cars - they dont get heavier than that and whatever you say, some of them can make you grin.

If you want history, go visit the museum.