[Dr.Naren]

There's no "perfect hot hatch" at 10 lakhs price range.

Baleno RS : 3 Cylinder turbo petrol, performance is just marginally better than 1.2 NA Baleno.

Polo GT TSI : No manual GB for enthusiasts, soft rear suspension

Abarth Punto : Rubbery gear shifts, weird clutch

Baleno RS is the perfect option as a "family hatch but fast".

GT TSI had good brand value and easy to drive in city

Abarth Punto might not be true Abarth. But, overall it's better than Baleno and GT TSI in terms of braking, straight line stability and performance.

P.S : Only Fiat claims 8.8 seconds 0-100 timing. Autocar and Overdrive have got 9.3-9.7 seconds. Also a remapped Abarth Punto did 8.6 seconds on V Box.

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

There's no "perfect hot hatch" at 10 lakhs price range.

Abarth Punto might not be true Abarth. But, overall it's better than Baleno and GT TSI in terms of braking, straight line stability and performance.

P.S : Only Fiat claims 8.8 seconds 0-100 timing. Autocar and Overdrive have got 9.3-9.7 seconds. Also a remapped Abarth Punto did 8.6 seconds on V Box.

Perfectly said Dr.Naren, not perfect hatch
To be frank lets get to the real work situation where no race car drivers are involved and there is no track.

Below is a quote from overdrive tests in which they have mentioned Abarth was doing lot of wheel spins due to the tyres, to extract better performance one needs better tyres
"Sure it’s just a second faster to 100kmph than the Polo but let’s not kid ourselves, the Abarth will always be quicker in any real world situation."
http://overdrive.in/reviews/comparo-...d-figo-1-5-at/

One car which really is understated is the Ford Figo Diesel. I feel its a true VFM hatch with very good performance at less pricing

[Carma2017]

Maruti was, is and never will cater to enthusiasts who want a no- compromise car. Period. They know their customer and they target their products at them. And their target customers, i.e. half of India laps it up. Baleno was made to have the common man Maruti buyer boasting of having a powerful car. And going by the response, people are buying into Maruti's game plan.

[nkrishnap]

Maruti could have done better in terms of packing more in the product or really going full throttle on making it a hot hatch. Seems like they are too bothered about their mileage image.

No matter what, the RS will outsell the Polo TSI and Punto Abarth (hey including Punto Abarth for the heck of it) many times over. Maruti knows this and enthusiasts can certainly look elsewhere even if they want a warmer hatch, leave alone a hot hatch.

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

If new lowered and stiffer suspensions, new wide pressure turbo, new injectors, tuned intake and exhausts, bigger inter-cooler, all 4 discs, and great alloys , new seats etc make you say it comes with just badges and same Tjet motor then what would you say about the new Baleno and polo?

Maybe Fiat should have done a full Abarth version and they would have still failed miserably. In India product success is dependent more on the brand than the product itself. People simply ignore product capability and buy for the brand. Nothing wrong.

[Dr.Naren]

Forgot to mention this interesting conversation I had with Nexa RM during the long drive :

RM : This is the only performance hatch in 10 lakhs price range with manual transmission

Me : Huh? What about Abarth Punto??

RM : Confused look... What's Abarth Punto??????

Me : You don't even know?? It's a turbo petrol with 145 HP, 4 cylinder and manual gearbox.

RM : Hmmm.. OK!! We were not told about the Punto during training and trained to market against GT TSI

Me : Haha!! Abarth sells less than 10 units per month in India. May be that's why Maruti did not bother

RM : He has the last laugh and says all our 10 Baleno RS are sold / blocked. Customers are fed up of long waiting period of normal Baleno and shifted to RS.

[slicvic]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

RM : He has the last laugh and says all our 10 Baleno RS are sold / blocked. Customers are fed up of long waiting period of normal Baleno and shifted to RS.

Whats the waiting period for the RS. Forgot to ask the RM when i took a drive

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by slicvic

Whats the waiting period for the RS. Forgot to ask the RM when i took a drive

At Mandovi Nexa, all the allotted cars are sold / blocked. RM did not have a clear idea about waiting period. He said approx 4 weeks.

[Su-47]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Customers are fed up of long waiting period of normal Baleno and shifted to RS.

That sums it up quite nicely - This is the "tatkal" version of Baleno, and part of the 1.5L premium comes from there.

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

3. Suspension: It's a regulatory upgrade not a performance one, so the regular Baleno will get it too.

What exactly is the suspension upgrade? And, would anyone know when it is likely to make it to normal Balenos? Asking, because we are awaiting the delivery of a Baleno can wait a bit longer if the timeline and usefulness of this upgrade is known.

Thanks,
Su-47

[chncar]

Originally Posted by Su-47

What exactly is the suspension upgrade? And, would anyone know when it is likely to make it to normal Balenos? Asking, because we are awaiting the delivery of a Baleno can wait a bit longer if the timeline and usefulness of this upgrade is known.

Thanks,
Su-47

The suspension issues of the regular Baleno have already been fixed in the 2017 models if the SAs are to be believed.

The suspension on the RS was changed not necessarily to make it sporty but because the car weighs over 50kg more than the regular petrol Baleno and it had to be modified to cope with that additional weight up front.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by chncar

The suspension on the RS was changed not necessarily to make it sporty but because the car weighs over 50kg more than the regular petrol Baleno and it had to be modified to cope with that additional weight up front.

Yes, the front suspension has been made stiffer as the car weighs 60 Kgs more. As per Autocar, the chassis is also strengthened to pass new safety norms and same would be done even on normal Baleno variants.

[chncar]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Yes, the front suspension has been made stiffer as the car weighs 60 Kgs more. As per Autocar, the chassis is also strengthened to pass new safety norms and same would be done even on normal Baleno variants.

I think the chassis changes were done on the regular Baleno around the beginning of the year, as the brochures were changed to list several safety features such as front and side crash test compliance, pedestrian safety and ISOFIX mounts.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

I think there is no use arguing further when you see sore points. Cheers !!

What I see is someone who is repeating things I have already said and at the same time refusing to accept my opinions.

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

I didnt even mention the track records, you bought up a track test in which the abarth was shodded with a funny tyre which will help a lot to spin the wheels.
I had no option than to equate it with another track record. ( i believe this is how a normal driver can drive, 99.99% are not professional racecar drives in india)

Yeah you're right you didn't, I did. Bingo for pointing out the obvious. All I meant to say is that an autocross record with amateur drivers is no comparison to a track test with a world renowned professional race car driver. Shoddy tyres were used on all cars and no one scolded the Fiat for spinning its tyres. Just for not being able to manage its own weight into corners. Is that inconceivable to admit to?

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

The argument is never about UK Abarth or Indian Abarth, the Indian Abarth is available off the shelf for 9 lacs odd right now after discounts. I see baleno overpriced for the offering.
I am not posting further on this , i am done thanks

Look buddy I have already admitted the Baleno is overpriced. I challenge you to point out a single post of mine where I haven't done so. All I said is that some might prefer the lightfooted chuckable nature of the Baleno, some the stering feel and power of the Punto and some the convenience of the Polo BUT none of them are getting a hot hatch because I don't buy into the "Abarth Pedigree" that you see us getting here in India, just as I don't buy into the RS or GT nonsense. If you see it as a pure hot hatch, then cool. I haven't said the Punto is not worth the money or anything like that. I have no idea what you keep inferring from my posts but is it okay if I still believe we don't have a hot hatch here in India? Or are you going to force me to believe that some reworked suspension, a mildly improved turbo, and some other light mods deserve an Abarth badge, while at the same time repeating several points that have been made and agreed upon already?

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

What I see is someone who is repeating things I have already said and at the same time refusing to accept my opinions.
Yeah you're right you didn't, I did. Bingo for pointing out the obvious. All I meant to say is that an autocross record with amateur drivers is no comparison to a track test with a world renowned professional race car driver. Shoddy tyres were used on all cars and no one scolded the Fiat for spinning its tyres. Just for not being able to manage its own weight into corners. Is that inconceivable to admit to?

Repeating things I would just hold a mirror on your statements.

Seems you are heading towards missing even the basics such as tyres. Driving a 145 bhp turbo hatch with oodies of torque with a shoddy tyres and then trying to prove it wheel spins and cant handle the weight on the corners !!
God bless your beliefs
Yes a 145 BHP hatch is hot hatch for many,especially if it comes under 11 lacs, for you it might not be, you can keep your opinion we can keep ours.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

Repeating things i would just hold a mirror on your statements.

Okay kindly elaborate then.

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

Seems you are heading towards missing even the basics such as tyres. Driving a 145 bhp turbo hatch with oodies of torque with a shoddy tyres and then trying to prove it wheel spins and cant handle the weight on the corners !!
God bless your beliefs

I said no one said wheel spins were bad but torque and grip is not what was even criticized infact it was applauded by everyone. Managing weight through quick turn ins on a tight track requires stiffer suspension or less flex with sway bars.

It is known as body roll buddy and tyres are not going to change that. Let me make things easier: I agree with you that Baleno is overpriced, I am sorry I don't think the Punto is an Abarth. The points I have given which you failed to understand, all go toward serving that opinion of mine. I hope that sums it up.

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

Yes a 145 BHP hatch is hot hatch for many,especially if it comes under 11 lacs, for you it might not be, you can keep your opinion we can keep ours.

Precisely what I said earlier. It all depends on how you prioritise speed and handling. I believe in a balance between the two and have no issues with you or anyone else believing otherwise just don't try forcing me to believe in some "ABARTH pedigree"

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Okay kindly elaborate then.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...uickest-3.html

Lets get back to baleno instead of justifying Abarths performance with JK tyres. I am sure Fiat owner will laugh like anything when he reads JKs on punto / Linea for a track and now lets not start a new debate that Alnac 4G are in similar price bracket