[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by mayjay

Petrol, while cleaner, causes more of a long term risk through higher CO2 emissions. Why not ban it as well.

While Supreme Court's ruling to extend the ban is illogical IMO, the idea of banning petrol for CO2 emissions is even worse. In that case you, me, all humans and animals will be banned too as we all emit CO2, even when we are not running. Even trees emit CO2 at night!

[aaggoswami]

Agree to the point that this ban is illogical. Rather than using more scientific methods like amount of emission per km., just relying on engine displacement reflects the stone age India as a nation still is in. What next ? Ban on registration of cars over 1800 cc ? What should manufacturers, who provide direct and indirect employment, derive out of this ? And then ban on registration of car having FE less than some number ? Thank God this is not implemented all over India. If Supreme Court is really serious, they should have asked for more scientific data on their table to take decisions. I am sure that manufacturers would be ready to dish out the figures asked for.

Although slightly OT, but Mahindra can plonk its under 2000cc engine in Xylo which can give it a slight increase in numbers as Innova and Aria both wont be in a position to sell as long as this ban is in place/they come up with smaller motors.

[sgiitk]

So this probably means that the Mercedes Blue, arguably the least polluting car in the world is out. Three cheers to our all knowing courts for this gaffe.

[RSR]

This is a very heartening and precedent-setting judgement by the Hon'ble SC - well done!!!

This judgement (including its preceding temporary one) exposes the lies of the vicious diesel lobby and smashes the mighty myths that they've been propagating with the help of their stooges in the moronic mainstream media.

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Blatant lie number 1: The price of diesel must be kept artificially lower than that of petrol in a deliberate manner, as diesel is meant for public transport vehicles (buses & trains) while petrol is meant for private vehicles (cars & bikes).

The SCI has smartly exposed this blatant lie of the diesel lobby. If diesel is meant for public transport vehicles & petrol for private vehicles, then why the hell is the vicious diesel lobby cribbing and fuming with rabid rage if private diesel vehicles above 2000cc are banned in one single city???

Diesel is anyway meant for public transport vehicles (and not private ones) according to the diesel lobby, right???

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Blatant lie number 2: Diesel cars do not benefit in any significant manner in terms of sales, if petrol is deliberately priced much higher than diesel, as diesel cars consume only a tiny % of the diesel that is being sold everyday in the country.

So diesel cars don't benefit in any significant manner if a fake artificial difference is maintained between the prices of petrol & diesel. Then why the hell should the diesel lobby cry foul when diesel cars above 2000cc are banned in one single city???

If diesel cars don't benefit in terms of sales (compared to petrol ones) due to the fake price differential, then why cry foul when the SC decides that only petrol/CNG/LPG cars above 2000cc can be registered in one particular city???

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The SC judgment has exposed one of the most vicious and dangerous lobbies that exert an unbelievable influence on the powers-that-be and the decision makers in this country.

The dangerous diesel lobby is next only to the disgusting tobacco lobby when it comes to advocating the relentless spewing out of carcinogenic filth into the atmosphere and deep into the lungs of Indians.

The rotten diesel lobby in India hasn't perhaps heard of this: If you sow the wind, you shall reap the whirlwind.

The notorious diesel lobby of India literally sowed the wind, and are now reaping a highly toxic, carcinogenic filth laden whirlwind!

The SC has lived up to its reputation of providing justice. In a country where all sorts of lobbies & mafias literally have the powers-that-be inside their dirty pockets in order to keep perpetuating heinous injustices on the common people, it is upto institutions like the SC to correct such diabolical injustices.

I hope the SC continues to expose the vicious diesel lobby for what they truly are. Until the vicious diesel lobby puts an end to their dirty deeds that take place behind the scenes and starts advocating for a fair pricing of petrol & diesel, they deserve to get many more setbacks like this.

The diabolical & deliberate injustices heaped upon hapless petrol users in this country by the notorious diesel lobby shall get their deserved punishment from the heavens above. May the diesel lobby continue to reap highly toxic, carcinogenic filth laden whirlwinds as long as they keep sowing the wind!

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

Although slightly OT, but Mahindra can plonk its under 2000cc engine in Xylo which can give it a slight increase in numbers as Innova and Aria both wont be in a position to sell as long as this ban is in place/they come up with smaller motors.

I believe the order does not restrict vehicles registered elsewhere from entering Delhi based on its engine size. The cab operators can register the Innovas, Boleros, Xylos in HR,PB,UP,UK,RJ and use them in Delhi.

[RSR]

Now that the Hon'ble SCI has set a worthy precedent for Delhi, it has inspired people elsewhere to fight against the heinous injustice perpetrated by the toxic, carcinogenic filth spewing & blatant lie spewing diesel lobby across the country, which is simply fantastic!!!

The vicious diesel lobby has been completely taken aback by this unexpected fightback from common citizens against their diabolical designs to promote the dirty fuel at the expense of petrol/CNG/LPG by using devious underhand methods.

SC move sets off chain reaction

Shocked and completely taken aback as the vile diesel lobby is right now, expect them to show their true colours very soon. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the fake, artificial difference between the prices of petrol & diesel goes up again sharply.

A diesel lobby that has had its devious designs exposed to the core is a very dangerous entity, far more dangerous than a canine that has contracted hydrophobia. It would need sustained judicial intervention from the highest courts in the country (SCI & HCs) to keep such a dangerous entity under control.

[DwarkaDelhiWala]

Originally Posted by mayjay

.....
Get this as a sample, "(Amicus curae, Aparajita Singh) said the running cost of diesel cars because of their superior fuel efficiency was 25-30% less than petrol cars. This incentive must be neutralized by imposing a green cess, which could be 25%-30% of the cost of a diesel car, to dissuade people from going for diesel cars," she said. "The bench in principle appeared to agree with Singh's argument". Source: Times of India

I think if will be just, proper, in the interest of justice and for public perception of independence of judiciary to also publish the proven competence, experience and independence of Amicus Curaes like Aparajita Singh on whose argument the Hon'ble Supreme Court agreed along with the data and its source ( and who certified that data) on which the argument was based.

What we are witnessing is a true example of 'mobocracy' which our country really is. Potential few hundred buyers of >2000 cc diesel cas are stuck while thousands of less <2000 cc diesel cars are being allowed to be bought and driven down the choked roads of NCR. Completely defies the logic. But then logic is not how a mobocarcy runs.

a sweet revenge of suzuki on toyota, mercedes..... for dominating western markets

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

So this probably means that the Mercedes Blue, arguably the least polluting car in the world is out. Three cheers to our all knowing courts for this gaffe.

Agree fully. This is tokenism and pandering of the worst kind. Yet another example why the dictatorship of unelected judges is worse than rule by even corrupt politicians. At least you can throw the politicians out for stupidity or corruption. Who will throw these self appointed arbiters of our destiny out?

[DwarkaDelhiWala]

Originally Posted by RSR

Now that the Hon'ble SCI ...
"...vicious diesel lobby
rotten diesel lobby
notorious diesel lobby
stooges in the moronic mainstream media
Blatant lie
diesel lobby cry foul
relentless spewing out of carcinogenic filth
dirty pockets in order to keep perpetuating heinous injustices
diabolical injustices
dirty deeds
diabolical & deliberate injustices
highly toxic, carcinogenic filth laden whirlwinds
dangerous than a canine that has contracted hydrophobia...."....

Hey buddy! why so worked up? The SC judgement id really going to hit only our own home grown Mahindra.

For Toyotas, Mercedes, Hondas..... Indian market is neither bread nor butter - just a nightmare.

[drmohitg]

I fail to understand this position of godliness taken by few presumed petrol car owners. Today you call it the ugly diesel lobby. Tomorrow a group of horsemen might call you the ugly petrol lobby. It's all about setting a precedent. In this case they have established that in our country any judgement can be passed if it is found appeasing by the mob, regardless of logic and facts.

[shreyak_ss]

One more thing popped in my mind today. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Most of the expensive german cars today come with stuff like the Auto start stop technology, brake regeneration tech etc. Isn't this what Maruti's SHVS is all about? If the German manufacturers put forward this point, even they may become a part of the hybrid scheme and prevent themselves from the ban. Even Mahindra has the micro hybrid tech in their cars. Or am I missing something?

[shashanka]

Originally Posted by shreyak_ss

One more thing popped in my mind today. Please correct me if I'm wrong......Or am I missing something?

Not at all - a few years ago at (I don't recall exactly) the then Auto Expo, M&M had displayed a Scorpio with genuine hybrid technology - KERS, motor/generator, Li-ion batteries, the works in fact! But after several years of R & D, when it came to walking-the-talk, they released the micro-hybrid on the public - which is nothing but a damp squib in comparison. If Maruti can do it with the SHVS, is there any reason why others cannot follow suit?

[RSR]

Originally Posted by DwarkaDelhiWala

Hey buddy! why so worked up? The SC judgement id really going to hit only our own home grown Mahindra.

For Toyotas, Mercedes, Hondas..... Indian market is neither bread nor butter - just a nightmare.

Home grown, domestic, foreign, alien, Martian, Plutonian, Kryptonian etc. etc. doesn't matter to me. The very influential (& notorious) diesel lobby is perpetrating a giant fraud on the citizens of this country hand-in-hand with the powers-that-be. This kind of notoriety is crystal clear to anyone who keeps a tab on the prices of petrol & diesel after both fuels were supposedly "de-regulated".

Yes, some of the words I used may have been a bit harsh, but it must be understood that they were not directed at any individual or even an organisation, but a lobby consisting of many companies (both home grown & otherwise) in the passenger vehicle industry and other sectors.

Why does the diesel lobby have to deliberately target petrol users by devious underhand methods in order to promote their dirty fuel (diesel obtained from crude oil)?

Why can't India have a fair pricing of automobile fuels, as it exists in most other countries of the world, be it in the First World or the Third World?

Who is working frenetically behind the scenes by employing shameless underhand methods to prevent a fair, free market pricing of automobile fuels?

The sheer reach of the poisonous tentacles of the dangerous diesel lobby in this country has to be observed to be understood fully. The moment there is even a fair semblance of a free market pricing of automobile fuels in India, I'll be the first to admit that the diesel lobby has given up its devious, underhand methods. Till then, any setback to the notorious diesel lobby comes as a huge relief for me.

I repeat, the diesel lobby is only reaping what it has sowed and continues to sow. I hope all their devious deeds boomerang on them in the most spectacular ways imaginable!

Not just in India, even internationally, people are waking up to the great dangers posed by the diesel lobby. The devious methods used by the international diesel lobby are somewhat different ("cheat devices", anyone?) to those of the diesel lobby in India, but the international diesel lobby is also getting exposed thoroughly in recent times! Fantastic! Wonderful!

Originally Posted by drmohitg

I fail to understand this position of godliness taken by few presumed petrol car owners. Today you call it the ugly diesel lobby. Tomorrow a group of horsemen might call you the ugly petrol lobby. It's all about setting a precedent. In this case they have established that in our country any judgement can be passed if it is found appeasing by the mob, regardless of logic and facts.

Of course, this comment must have been meant for me, as I believe I'm the only member to post a contrarian view on the SC move.

Godliness? Actually, I wouldn't mind if you even termed my position as devilishness, good doc.

Logic and facts? Where did they vanish when it comes to the pricing of petrol & diesel after the supposed "de-regulation"?

So one arm of the establishment in this country (the executive) can do whatever they like completely devoid of logic and facts (influenced as they are by the diesel lobby), but another arm of the same establishment (the judiciary) cannot do something to counter the shockingly illogical and anti-factual moves of the former?

It's up to the judiciary to correct the excesses of the executive in any healthy, non-totalitarian republic. Unlike the executive, the judiciary has limited means at their disposal. And I'm glad the judiciary in India has challenged the excesses of the executive in this matter! Kudos to the Hon'ble SCI on this issue!

[mayjay]

Just to understand better, diesel lobby is made up of Commercial vehicle manufacturers, right?
Passenger car makers typically follow demand - the bane of this issue is surely the huge difference in petrol vs. diesel price which existed for about 2 years, until about a year back. This difference is now mostly gone, so not that big an issue (~20% diff.). The evidence is in the Petroliesel sales ratio for cars which offer both options, and which has swung back towards petrol in a big way.

The cause of bulk of the PM related pollution is due to the petrol to diesel transition which happened in mainstream (smaller) cars, not so much in bigger cars which have low volumes anyway.
If anything, to make the maximum impact on pollution, the supreme court should have gone after cars with <2000 cc engines. Thoughts?

[kartavya]

I just don't find enough common sense in this.You can't have rules one day and the next day tell the car manufacturers that "Hey listen, you guys do follow the rules but the rules arn't good enough for our city, so please stop selling".

What people don't understand is the problem is in the governance, in a failure to find a long term solution. Imagine having a business about a legal product and the next day a proceeding comes that you have to stop selling them. It is just stupid to be honest.

Agreed these cars are polluting but give the car manufacturers some time to act on it. In that while change the system what defines polluting and non polluting. It is downright ridiculous to just term pollution based on engine cc (>2000 cc).

Punish actual rule breakers (if rules are lenient, pass a low to make them strict). If a manufacturer like Mercedes is within the pollution norms, the company isn't doing anything wrong. There is no short term "next day" fix to this problem, laws need to be passed for stringent norms and adhering to norms (which our infrastructure lacks).