[vvrchandra]

Originally Posted by deemash

Also, I heard there is no cruise control on any of the variants. Is this true?

Yes, You are true.

BR-V doesn't come with cruise control on any of the variants, which is a must at that price range.

[Hvt77]

Breaking news: buy the BR-V on flipkart!!

well, it just redirects to the BRV micro site on Honda Car India, with some campaign tracking URL parameters!

Interesting approach though, taken by HCIL!

And then on a more serious note, wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to track delivery of your vehicle from the moment you book it? Kind of like the Domino's 'track your pizza', from order to baking to dispatch!

[Sebring]

My friend is keen on the Creta and had booked it, asked him to check out the BRV on launch but he rejected the car for the very same reasons as you. Creta definitely scores in the looks department. Getting the Hyundai home in 45 days.

--NO VX trim in Automatic petrol
--NO leather seats in V CVT (Honda city has leather in petrol CVT)
--NO touchscreen AVN
--NO rear view camera or parking sensors for a SUV
--NO LED strip in V trim
--NO tech like Apple carplay or Android Auto
--NO rain sensing Wipers
--NO side or curtain airbags
--Seating position is low in BR-V compared to Creta.

[TSIched'Out]

I guess Honda needs to do the following to avoid sudden death of BR-V:

1. Reduce prices by atleast 1.5 Lacs across variants. Will reduce the negativity of high price for cheap look/feel car.
2. Offer Automatic in S Trim as well to make it less than 10 Lac Ex-Showroom Automatic 7 seater option for the middle class. S variant is decently equipped and doesn't skimp on safety issues.
3. Offer fully loaded VX trim with 6/7 airbags, cruise control, VSC and all other gizmos in both Manual and Automatic transmission.
4. Reprice Mobilio to Ertiga levels to capture the taxi segment (what Maruti did to Old Dzire). This will also bring in volumes and will reduce costs for Honda on both BR-V and Mobilio.

In the absence of the above, I wont be surprised if BR-V also goes the Mobilio way with sales in 3 digits 6 months down the line.

[asr245]

I find it very very strange & amusing when people reject cars because of

- lack of cruise control : I have driven more than 1.6L kms in India & never thought that cruise control would have helped. I mean how long can you really cruise in India (& at what speed) before you need to back out of it??
- no leather seats : maybe because I live in NCR, i utterly hate them.
- no AVN/parking assist equipment : it's good to have but cannot be a deal breaker. Nothing you cannot add on.

Very rarely I have seen people rejecting a car due to lack of safety equipment. Now if was to chose between BRV & Creta, I would look at the auto option in petrol & try to find out which has a better engine (I think Honda wins hands down), which one has a better auto box & the number of airbags. I know BRV doesn't dome with curtain airbags, not sure about Creta. Not to mention, if i can get information about the crash worthiness of the vehicle. If Creta is an India only product, I will be very apprehensive.

Never will I ever consider lack of chrome/beige/leather seats or cruise control or even body colored bumpers & mirrors or LED DRLs/strips as a deal breaker.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by asr245

- lack of cruise control : I have driven more than 1.6L kms in India & never thought that cruise control would have helped. I mean how long can you really cruise in India (& at what speed) before you need to back out of it??

Agreed that many have not used these features. But when you are driving long distances, cruise and that 6th gear come really handy. Many from south can quote examples of long 4-lane stretches (Bangalore-Kanyakumari) or (Bangalore-Bombay) or (Bangalore-Hyderabad) where cruise control helps a lot during those long and empty 4-lanes roads. Not to mention the utility of the 6th gear.

Very rarely I have seen people rejecting a car due to lack of safety equipment.

This trend is slowly changing in the urban segment as markets and consumers mature. Many for example did not consider the Grand i10AT just because there were no safety options offered then. Thanks to that now we can see Hyundai re-introducing safety kit availability for those trims.

But earlier Hyundai had its way on cutting off safety kits from AT as there were no well rounded AT hatches to compete and thats how the market played it out. (I myself had the i10AT with no safety. But there was no choice then. But when time came to change I did not compromise)

Never will I ever consider lack of chrome/beige/leather seats or cruise control or even body colored bumpers & mirrors or LED DRLs/strips as a deal breaker.

Reasons explained for cruise. If you do a lot of highway driving, its a big aid.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by asr245

- lack of cruise control : I have driven more than 1.6L kms in India & never thought that cruise control would have helped. I mean how long can you really cruise in India (& at what speed) before you need to back out of it??

Don't know about North India, but cruise control is defenitely useful down here in the south, specially the long straight highways of TN and AP. Most of my drives are from Bangalore <-> Trivandrum and some to Hyderabad etc which involves cruising at around 100 kmph for about 12 hours.

I'm not kidding when I say that during the last night drive from Trivandrum to Bangalore, I only had to slow down at Toll plazas. All of the 750kms in between were spent cruising at 100kmph. And I prefer to stay at 100 kmph all the time as i find it the best balance between speed and safety.

Definitely the most important feature for my next car.

Originally Posted by asr245

Now if was to chose between BRV & Creta, I would look at the auto option in petrol & try to find out which has a better engine (I think Honda wins hands down), which one has a better auto box & the number of airbags.

You might want to test drive before concluding mate - The 1.6L petrol in Creta is extremely competent. Producing 121 bhp and 151 Nm torque, it is a good match againt the BRV producing 119bhp and 145Nm.

Below are the words from team-bhp official review -

The petrol fires up in an exceedingly refined manner. At idle, you simply won't be able to tell if it's running. The diesel motor was refined, yes, but the petrol is in another league altogether.

Give this engine slightly more throttle than you would in the diesel and you get going in a seamless manner. The first thing that strikes you is the linear power delivery. It's very straight and very progressive. The engine offers good urban driveability by petrol standards. Drop the speedo to 10 - 12 kph in 2nd gear, just wait for a brief moment and it starts pulling nicely. Low rpm torque delivery is satisfactory and you'll have no problems living with it. The 1.6L certainly isn't dead at ~1,500 rpm like some other petrols. Additionally, the gear ratios are perfectly chosen.

The petrol is very revv happy and easily climbs to 7,000 rpm. Hyundai petrols have indeed come a long way; remember their lame engines from the 90s? Work the Creta petrol on the open road and you can make rapid progress. It's capable of fast acceleration and thus, overtaking other vehicles poses no problem at all. However, unlike the diesel, you will need to downshift before overtaking moves. You have to work the petrol more than the diesel to access its performance envelope. The 6th gear makes the Creta petrol a capable long-distance cruiser. At 100 kph in 6th, the needle is hovering at ~2,500 rpm. At regular cruising speeds, it's so refined that you can barely hear the engine. On the flip side, the petrol makes a boomy noise at high rpms. It's not excessive, but definitely noticeable & annoying. In summary, engine to engine, Honda's 1.5L i-Vtec is the superior. But this 1.6L makes it clear that Hyundai is bridging the gap.

Originally Posted by asr245

I know BRV doesn't dome with curtain airbags, not sure about Creta. Not to mention, if i can get information about the crash worthiness of the vehicle. If Creta is an India only product, I will be very apprehensive.

No curtain airbags on either, though Creta offers it on the manual variant. Creta is not an India specific model, and test results below -
http://indianautosblog.com/2015/12/i...sh-test-206865

When it comes to diesels though, Creta totally triumphs over the BRV in terms of safety - 6 airbags, ABS, ESC, HSA etc.

[Deep Blue]

I had a look at the BRV at the local dealer. Test drive was not available the vehicle was yet to be registered. Apart from the third row seats, there is no real advantage over Duster or Creta. I feel for somebody on a budget, Duster AWD is the only go almost anywhere SUV available. For those who want a 5 seater with a good GC, Ecosport or Brezza would be more value for money options.
I feel BRV should be compared with Lodgy/Enjoy rather than Duster or Creta as most BRV buyers would be those wanting the extra utility of 7 seats.
BRV seems ideal for Indians like me who has parents living with us and would like the extra seats for the kids for those short trips attending functions, movies, malls etc and may be two/three longer drives to native places. For all other long trips , might as well hire a Innova!

The third row seats are hyped a bit . None of the Indian offerings including the Innova offer a spacious third row good enough for long journeys like the Hyundai H1 or Ford Tourneo, I have seen abroad. They have good boot space too but of course are real big vans.

[mustang_shelby]

Originally Posted by asr245

I find it very very strange & amusing when people reject cars because of

- lack of cruise control : I have driven more than 1.6L kms in India & never thought that cruise control would have helped. I mean how long can you really cruise in India (& at what speed) before you need to back out of it??

I was also of the same opinion sometime back. But lately I have been realizing that cruise control does not need to be necessarily utilized on a bulk of your trip to be useful. On my recent trip Bangalore-Chennai (which sees decent traffic), there were many times when I was holding constant speeds for 10-15 min or so. If there was cruise control, these periodic rests of 10-15 min for the right leg would reduce the overall fatigue of the journey significantly.
It also depends on driving speed. Someone who wants to drive at 120-130+ kmph will have much fewer opportunities to engage cruise control as compared to someone driving at say, 100 kmph.

Originally Posted by asr245

- no AVN/parking assist equipment : it's good to have but cannot be a deal breaker. Nothing you cannot add on.

Aftermarket add-ons come with many compromises and will never be as well integrated or as functional as factory fitted equipment. Opening up the dashboard (recipe for rattles later on), cutting wires, drilling holes and risking your warranty on a brand new car makes me uncomfortable. And even then, features like adaptive guidelines for reverse cam, steering mounted controls for bluetooth and audio may not work correctly, and the HU will most likely not look well integrated into the dash. BR-V does not have steering mounted controls for bluetooth telephony or a bluetooth mike as far as I know (haven't had the opportunity to check out the V or VX model in person yet), so I am not sure if these can be made to work even if the aftermarket HU supports it.

All these compromises are ok when you adding AVN to a 5 lakh car. On a 15+ lakh car, they completely spoil the beginning of the ownership experience.

Originally Posted by asr245

Very rarely I have seen people rejecting a car due to lack of safety equipment. Now if was to chose between BRV & Creta, I would look at the auto option in petrol & try to find out which has a better engine (I think Honda wins hands down), which one has a better auto box & the number of airbags. I know BRV doesn't dome with curtain airbags, not sure about Creta. Not to mention, if i can get information about the crash worthiness of the vehicle. If Creta is an India only product, I will be very apprehensive.

Agree with mod ampere here, regarding safety equipment.

Originally Posted by asr245

Never will I ever consider lack of chrome/beige/leather seats or cruise control or even body colored bumpers & mirrors or LED DRLs/strips as a deal breaker.

Agreed on crome, leather and LEDs etc.

[SmartCat]

The reason for apparent success of BR-V is that it has no competition - an SUV with 3 rows seating - at this price point. I find lots of similarities between this and Ford launching Ecosport and creating a whole new segment altogether.

Creta/Duster will never be competitors for BR-V because of lack of 3rd row - I'll be very surprised if there is dent in their sales. It's very unlikely that those who don't want the practicality of a 3rd row will choose the BR-V - they will gravitate towards Creta (for features & premium feel) and Duster (ruggedness, price).

Wait for a couple of years and you might see an equivalent of Brezza XL, Ecosport XL, Creta XL and Duster XL - with 3 row seating - to take on BR-V.

[asr245]

Originally Posted by mustang_shelby

Aftermarket add-ons come with many compromises and will never be as well integrated or as functional as factory fitted equipment. Opening up the dashboard (recipe for rattles later on), cutting wires, drilling holes and risking your warranty on a brand new car makes me uncomfortable. And even then, features like adaptive guidelines for reverse cam, steering mounted controls for bluetooth and audio may not work correctly, and the HU will most likely not look well integrated into the dash.

I got a City E-MT 6 years ago which came without alloys, music system of any sort & parking sensors. Come delivery date, it went straight for alloys + tires upgrade, a 2 din audio & reverse parking sensors. All in all, I was quite happy with the job. Clean job with little to no dismantling. But I don't have the keenest eye, and I do agree with those concerns.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Don't know about North India, but cruise control is defenitely useful down here in the south,

Wow! nothing like that up here be it NH1 or NH8.
Comparing the petrol engines of Honda & Hyundai, what I meant was long term ownerhips reviews. I don't know if it's the same engine in the Verna or how that has done. But as the review you quoted said, i-Vtec is still superior (though maybe no longer comfortably ahead). Diesel I know Hyundai is far more refined.


PS: Don't you find cruise control a little dangerous? imagine dozing off & yet the vehicle doesn't decelerate. Yes i know, dozing off is very dangerous but in normal conditions the car would decelerate as your foot loosens.

[nkrishnap]

Most people are not simply finding a problem of lack of features on the BRV and knocking it off the purchase list. It is mostly because of the asking price with all these features glaringly missing compared to the competition. Most of it can be added as add on which of course doesn't come free and will increase the landing cost further (which will work like a final nail in the coffin).

Hope better sense prevails at Honda and Honda does cut the price in the range of 1.5 - 2 lakhs.

[Hvt77]

Originally Posted by smartcat

Wait for a couple of years and you might see an equivalent of Brezza XL, Ecosport XL, Creta XL and Duster XL - with 3 row seating - to take on BR-V.

Your prophecy is about to come true soon I guess (those there is no further update since Sep '15):

Next gen Renault Duster 7-seater caught testing

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by -xplora-

1. This has a little utility, atleast auto-down is there

I find auto-up immensely useful while driving out of tool booths and office / mall parking lots where you need to open the window, and then immediately drive out. Of course, it is a 'good to have' feature rather than a must have.

Originally Posted by -xplora-

3. I agree, the plastic one looks el-cheapo. But after-market will again not be a huge cost.
4. Same with this

Buddy, have you seen how the steering wheel is leather wrapped? Requires the airbag module, steering wheel controls all to be dismantled and put back in place.

This is not a pretty sight with a brand new car! The below thread shows work in progress on the same steering (Old Jazz steering is shared with new BRV).
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/delhi-...ml#post3963124



One other way is to stitch the leather around the wheel without following the original steering wheel inset design. Like steering wheel covers, but made in leather. That is easy, but is definitely not even close to OE levels of look and finish.

Originally Posted by smartcat

Even though I will be paying Rs. 15 Lacs for BR-V CVT, I won't complain too much about it (although it was Rs. 1 Lac more than what I was expecting to pay)

Out of Rs. 15 Lacs -

50K is going to the insurance company.
2.5 Lacs is going to the State government

2 Lacs is going to the Central Govt. It might be more because BR-V with high ground clearance has extra tax.
http://www.charteredclub.com/excise-...cars-in-india/

This means the ex-factory price is around Rs. 10 Lacs. The CVT gearbox is imported and that costs Rs. 1.5 Lacs. So poor Honda has to give you the entire car for something like Rs. 7 - 8 lacs (there are more taxes for manufacturing).

Interesting Analysis.

Out of 15L, Honda Assure insurance is 35,391/- Road tax is 230837/- Which brings us to the ex-showroom value of 12,23,300/-
Premium for CVT in 1.09L/-
Which brings out to the ex-showroom price of V manual variant at 11.14L/-

BRV with high ground clearance doesn't have extra tax. As engine size is less than 1500cc. Tax on a Mobilio and BRV is same. That said, Mobilio V petrol is priced at 9.35L while BRV V petrol is priced at 11.15L. A price differential of almost 1.8L.

Now, "poor Honda" can be true if either 1. Mobilio was priced at a loss. Or 2. BRV was not having sufficient premium over Mobilio. We all know Mobilio was overpriced to start with. I leave it to you to decide if BRV if worth the 1.8L premium over Mobilio.

PS - Of course, Mobilio doesn't have an AT. So no point comparing there. The pricing is relevant for manuals though.

Originally Posted by smartcat

The XUV 500 W6 AT will cost approx Rs. 18 lacs on road (3 lacs more than BR-V). It is less practical than a BR-V because of lack of bootspace, loses out on features like alloy wheels, keyless start/stop and projector headlamps. But it gets a diesel engine and lots of "automatic" stuff (auto headlamps, auto wipers and auto what not!)

The on road price is around 17.5L for XUV 5OO AT. Thats a price difference of 2.5L in Bangalore.

What it gets over the BRV petrol CVT?
- Diesel engine.
- Lot more power and torque on tap, plus Aisin 6 speed AT.
- Much more spacious first and second rows.
- 2+3+2 seating compared to 2+2+2 of the BRV. However, as you said boot space is less.
- 7" touch screen infotainment system
- All wheel discs brakes
- Parking sensors
- Cruise control
- Automatic stuff like headlamps and wipers.

It gets projector headlamps. But yes, it misses out on keyless entry and alloy wheels compared to the BRV.

PS - XUV falls in the 24% excise tax bracket as well, as per your link which says more than 4m and diesel engine capacity more than 1500cc. So, the price differential includes more taxes as well, if that is any consolation.

Close call? Even more so when you see the manual diesel VX variant of BRV which is 16.28L in Bangalore while XUV 5OO W6 is only 16.92L!

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

PS - XUV falls in the 24% excise tax bracket as well, as per your link which says more than 4m and diesel engine capacity more than 1500cc.

Even Mahindra ducked the higher SUV tax bracket by adding a plastic or rubber component (to artificially lower ground clearance) to XUV's underbody.
http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...ax-349402.aspx

I have to admit that XUV 500 W6 AT is very interesting proposition, mainly because of the benefits associated with diesel car's running costs and resale value. And Rs. 2.5 - 3 Lacs doesn't seem much in EMI terms.

But I'm pretty sure there are many buyers like me, who initially had budgeted Rs. 13 to 14 Lacs for the BR-V AT. Rs. 15 Lacs is a stretch I have to make, because of TINA factor (There is no alternative). But Rs. 18 Lacs is an impossible stretch for me.

But for those who can afford it, for people whom Rs. 3 lacs here and there doesn't matter, XUV 500 W6 AT and Innova Crysta AT (base model) are obviously better alternatives to BR-V AT.