[y2ksrs]

Originally Posted by freedom

While we all cry that AT is available only in top specs of some cars, Suzuki's decision to have AT only in mid trim is also a huge mistake.
Urban commuters need an AT today..

Exactly my point as well. AT on the Zeta would have been ideal, but on the Delta!! That's just not acceptable. My wait for the ideal AT car continues

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

It will be tough for Baleno to fail particularly when it is not an ugly car. Maruti is one company that can sell ugly boxes in large numbers.

Agreed that MS can sell ugly tin cans very well. But not at this price bracket. And the Baleno without alloys or projectors will look plain ugly.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by blue_pulsar

The 75PS is definitely a downer! But from Maruti point of view it makes sense because they will never be able to justify the 90PS engine on both the Ciaz and Baleno. I feel Maruti is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They should have pulled up their socks for the Ciaz launch and should have given it the 1.6 engine.

Valid point blue_pulsar! In addition, the Baleno with 90 PS would be priced just above the DZire (another hot seller for MSIL). With the Baleno at that price, they might stand to lost on DZire sales rather than gain from i20 / Jazz.

This was a very well seen when i20 was launched and it ate into Xcent's numbers. Xcent is now a considerable distance away from i20 in monthly volumes and is being aggressively pushed to Olas and Ubers.

Guess, this is the price we as consumers pay when a single manufacture enjoys close to 50% market share. We are sometime away from being a consumer's market - at least in the automotive space

[aniketi]

Originally Posted by sunsetorange

Mediocrity was considered good enough for us Indians by Maruti and we were mollified by the Maruti advantage etc . , in the last decade.

We have moved on. When the Figo diesel has set the benchmark and beats the Swift hollow in most if not all factors, do we still believe 75 ps is adequate. Remember, this is meant to take on the Torque monsters from the 1.4 crdi of the i20, 1.5 engines of the Ford Figo and the VW Polo.

The only reason the Swift keeps up with them on the roads is due to the tinny build (also for the mileage ).

A premium car with economy in mind is a bit cheap!

Figo can't be a benchmark mate so soon, it has just launched and yet to prove in the market. Let's wait for few months and then say such bold statement. Just 100 PS power doesn't make car best in the market. I would say current benchmark is Elite i20, which is a good package overall. In looks, space & service it beats Figo any day. Its diesel engine is also very powerful. Swift is in other league altogether, it has its own clients. People buying swift are mainly looking for fun to drive car with peace of mind at optimum price. Swift gives all of that and that is why it sells so much in the market for last 10 years consistently, nobody is near them at all, forget competing with them.

Why premium car cannot be fuel efficient? Most people even though spend lot of money on their car, looks for fuel economy. That's why we have all diesel premium cars famous compared to petrol cars as they are more fuel efficient. Take example of Honda CRV or Civic, those are very premium but didn't sell much due to their poor economy. Ford petrols also failed due to same reason, VW petrols also don't sell much. So keeping economy in mind is not at all cheap IMHO.

Originally Posted by chncar

What good price can they offer? Surely it will be priced more than the Swift, and if it is priced even 50k more it will be getting into i20/Jazz territory and already more expensive than the Figo, in which case it is already outclassed in terms of engine and features. Maruti doesn't have much room to play around here and have basically shot themselves in the foot by sabotaging what could have been a superhit high-volume product in order to save a low-volume S-Cross.

Any price less than Elite i20 or same is good price for me. We all know Maruti has their own advantages and they have large client base who love their cars. Maruti has advantage here of having all safety features starting from base model. People will defnitely think of Baleno if they price it rightly. Lets wait and see how things get unfold.

[WRXXX]

Originally Posted by y2ksrs

Agreed that MS can sell ugly tin cans very well. But not at this price bracket. And the Baleno without alloys or projectors will look plain ugly.

By projectors in Alpha, do they mean HIDs using projectors, because Both S-cross and Ciaz should have projectors in all variants and only Alpha S-cross gets HID projectors. Could someone please clarify?

[hybridpetrol]

OK, now we have got the specifications - let us do some guesstimates based on this!

Compared to Swift, Baleno is lengthier by 145mm, wider by 50mm, but shorter by 30mm. However GC is 10mm more. Add to that the product freshness. Apart from that, I find the Sigma Petrol variant comparable to Swift VXi, except for the 2 airbag and ABS+EBD that Sigma has. However the Sigma variant lacks rear power windows.
Swift Vxi trades at 5.4L ex-showroom. To make the Baleno competitive, they should launch at 5.9L ex-showroom for the Sigma version. Sigma Diesel could start at 6.8L ex-showroom.
Delta variant seems to be compared to Swift Zxi / Zdi - but lacks Alloy wheels, seat height adjustment, fog lamps - so, due to lack of some features it can be placed similar to Swift Zxi /Zdi - about 6.4L / 7.4L for Delta petrol & Diesel. Delta has a CVT variant - add few thousands - 7.3L we should get Delta Petrol CVT.
Zeta - I don't think it adds a lot of costly features - at best it can be placed at 6.8L / 7.7L.
Alpha comes with projector headlights, AVN, reversing camera etc - add another few thousands - top variant should come at about 7.5L / 8.5L

My guesses:
Sigma 1.2L Petrol - 5.9L
Sigma 1.3L Diesel - 6.8L
Delta 1.2L Petrol - 6.4L
Delta 1.3L Diesel - 7.4L
Delta 1.2L Petrol AT - 7.3L
Zeta 1.2L Petrol - 6.8L
Zeta 1.3L Diesel - 7.7L
Alpha 1.2L Petrol - 7.5L
Alpha 1.3L Diesel - 8.5L

So the price band in my opinion - 5.9L - 8.5L.
The top petrol should come around 9L OTR, and the top variant diesel come around 10L OTR. Petrol AT should come around 8.5L - 9L OTR, and if so, it would be a really good value proposition.

All the above are pure guesses, and we would know how weird these are on 26th October!

[AtheK]

If they price CVT in vicinity of 7.5 lacs I am definitely going to Have a TD, anything more, I will not care.

[rednikhil]

Originally Posted by aniketi

Why premium car cannot be fuel efficient?

No offence, but you are missing the point altogether. It is not the fuel-efficiency of a car that decides it's premium-ness quotient. That could be an added advantage, but definitely not the USP. The engine performance however, plays a major part in making the product premium. Not for nothing is it called the heart of an automobile. Imagine a Jaguar, with them fine leather seats, glitzy instrumentation and screaming red/ blue colors, with a fuel-efficient but lame engine no better than can cars lower down in the pecking order. Would you call it premium? It may yet sell well but can in no way be called premium. Could be just my way of thinking.

[Vid6639]

I'm not sure what is going on with Maruti off late. The Baleno had so much hype around it and now with the features being scooped it's just such a big downer.

For a car that will be priced above the Swift to get the 1.3L MJD and 75PS tune is just ridiculous. The new Figo with 100PS, Jazz with 100PS, Elite i20 with 90PS and Maruti decided to stick with the 75PS engine option?

Then the CVT variant. Usually we get a mid variant AT. With the Baleno they have gone even one lower and given one above the base. So you buy the expensive CVT option and lose out on alloy wheels, drivers seat heigh adjust, telescopic steering and a whole lot more. The CVT should have been Zeta variant at any cost.

Then there's the 1.2L K series engine. Thanks to Maruti tuning and the obsession buyers and Maruti has with FE they have tamed this engine down from what we saw when it was first launched in the Ritz and Swift.

For a Nexa product and positions above the swift the minimum should have been the 90PS diesel and 1.4L K series from Ertiga/Ciaz.

I'll wait for it to launch and reserve my final judgement but seeing these engine options is a very very big downer as the heart of the car is now severely lacking from what it could have been.

[aniketi]

Originally Posted by rednikhil

No offence, but you are missing the point altogether. It is not the fuel-efficiency of a car that decides it's premium-ness quotient. That could be an added advantage, but definitely not the USP. The engine performance however, plays a major part in making the product premium. Not for nothing is it called the heart of an automobile. Imagine a Jaguar, with them fine leather seats, glitzy instrumentation and screaming red/ blue colors, with a fuel-efficient but lame engine no better than can cars lower down in the pecking order. Would you call it premium? It may yet sell well but can in no way be called premium. Could be just my way of thinking.

Figo 1.2 petrol is really bad performer compared to others, Toyota Corolla has 1.4 only in diesel avtaar, Renault has 1.5 in Fluence (same as Pulse), Innova has around 100 BHP only engine for a such big 7-8 seater, Hyundai has 1.2 Petrol which is very lame for its weight (I have driven one many times & its not at all inspiring). Still all these cars are called as premium cars only, right? So basically premium tag is given for overall package in my opinion. Only engine, looks, interiors, features, etc can't make any car premium, it has to be overall package, no offence please.

[Yeldo]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

I'm not sure what is going on with Maruti off late. The Baleno had so much hype around it and now with the features being scooped it's just such a big downer.

Then the CVT variant. Usually we get a mid variant AT. With the Baleno they have gone even one lower and given one above the base. So you buy the expensive CVT option and lose out on alloy wheels, drivers seat heigh adjust, telescopic steering and a whole lot more. The CVT should have been Zeta variant at any cost.


For a Nexa product and positions above the swift the minimum should have been the 90PS diesel and 1.4L K series from Ertiga/Ciaz.

The tax brackets might be the prime culprit in the Baleno coming with only a 1.2L Petrol engine.

But I share your view on equipment levels in the CVT variant. Small automatic cars are always owner driven. So why deny him / her of useful, functional features like steering telescopic function and driver seat height adjustment. Thankfully, the CVT variant gets the power folding mirrors, though.

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by rednikhil

The engine performance however, plays a major part in making the product premium. Not for nothing is it called the heart of an automobile. It may yet sell well but can in no way be called premium. Could be just my way of thinking.

This is India and the market here is utilitarian in my opinion. People looking for performance are in minority and the sales are not dependent on such minority demands. All manufacturers have under powered offerings and they do sell in huge numbers. We are all pleading for Swift Sports for ages now but such demands always fall on deaf ears. I see Polo TSI only once in a week, that too in Delhi NCR, where car sells like scooties. MSIL also have S Cross 1.6 as an example to justify their stand.

I think it will be too late for us by the time they decide (if ever they decide) to give us boosterjet or more powerful engine. Still, I hope 75 BHP is not as under powered in real world scenario as it seems on paper. Let us wait for the reviews to form an opinion.

[hybridpetrol]

I believe the premium tag is what going to play against the Baleno now.
Now the tag is there, but it does not have anything that sets it apart from other B2 segment hatchbacks.

1) The engine is the same 1.2L petrol / 1.3L Diesel used in Swift. At least 1.4L petrol should have been there. It would make it really fast hatchback.
2) Top variant should have come with all round safety - 6 airbags, ABS+EBD, ESP, Hill hold etc.
3) Premium car showroom need not have cars without basic features such as rear power windows, seat height adjustment etc. In my view - the Sigma & Delta variants do not make any sense for Nexa.
4) They should have stick to only two trims - Alpha & Zeta, both should have come with CVT versions.

Maruti spent hundreds of crores, just to launch cars that are equivalent to i20 / Jazz?
I don't really see why a Swift / Dzire / Ciaz customer and the Baleno / S-Cross customer would not want to cross each other in the showroom!
The premium showroom plan of Maruti just seems to be a joke!

[volkman10]

Some comparisons of the 'Premium' hatchbacks - As usual a TD and pricing of the Baleno will indicate its success.







http://www.motorbeam.com/2015/10/car...iat-punto-evo/

[aravind.anand]

The new Ford Figo is teaching the bigger hatchbacks a lesson or two about performance and efficiency.
The i20 has now become the professor of interior quality and engine refinement.
The Polo has passed the engineering and build quality papers with distinction ( but still hasn't cleared its arrears with space utilization )

And now Maruti brings a very confused product to the market, the Baleno!

Baleno was not a very successful name plate to begin with.
It was a sedan in its previous birth ( maybe the Zen moniker would have been better, but Estilo tarnished it somewhat )
Just by looks, the car was not too sporty or luxurious.
And now the engine spec tells us that its no better than a Swift.
Baleno buyers should choose between a similarly priced, but more powerful Dezire and then come buy this.

The biggest USP then, is going to be the fact that you can buy the Baleno from the less crowded Nexa showrooms??

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Some comparisons of the 'Premium' hatchbacks - As usual a TD and pricing of the Baleno will indicate its success.

I am a little confused with this comparison. Is this the comparison that Maruti also wants? I am asking because, all these years Swift was compared to these cars. Now getting their 'premium' offering also compared to the same cars, I think its missing a trick somewhere.

Which is why I believe Baleno needed to be better on the engine front. Bare minimum they should have given the 90 Hp variant of the MJD and the 1.4 Ltr K Series.