[deepakhon]

Originally Posted by PatchyBoy

Any Linea T-Jet owner here who has TD'ed the Abarth Punto? I am quite curious to know how different the car is, given that the basic engine is the same. I feel that existing T-Jet owners will be best equipped to describe the differences precisely.

Am planning to do so over the weekend. Let me see how it works out.

[asr245]

Originally Posted by WorkingGuru

If one cares at all to be better enabled for 95% of the drive, a DSG would've been better anyday.

If all one cares for is that 5% of the drive, then sure, knock yourself out - drive the manual!

"Purist", wow sounds like such a nice word. If manuals are for "Purists", then why not simply start doing everything related to driving, manually ? Why at all key-crank to start the car ? They should still have that hand crank at the front of the car, no?

How many "FIAT Fans" here would've criticised the company if this was offered Fiats' Dual Clutch Transmission ?

Manual GB is not for purists. Manuals for for people who like manuals. And I like manuals. Almost all my cars have been manuals & driven in & around metros in India. And as long as my leg/knee is fine, I will always buy manuals (unless it's an SUV where it really makes no difference IMO).

As far as hand cranks go, i don't consider that to be connected to driving. That's more connected to starting that car. Using an MT is more connected to driving. In many countries, licenses specify if the holder is authorized to drive a MT vehicle. I bet licenses have probably never mentioned if the holder is authorized to drive a hand cranked vehicle. One is related to driving skill, other is not.

Originally Posted by #ish

Disclaimer first: I am a proud GT TSI owner.

Now my views: I was blown away when I heard the specs of Punto Abarth. It truly is a monster. Although I bought my TSI in January, I still cursed myself for not being able to have a choice between Punto Abarth and GT TSI.

Although I had visited the Fiat showroom and drove Punto Evo as well but I hated the car. The interiors were just nauseating and ergonomics poorer than Mali. So even if it was the best car in the class I wasnt going to buy it.

Then I saw the GT TSI and the rest is history.

So, I am happy that I have the GT TSI. It is, to me, still better than Punto Abarth.

Sure 145 BHP is great and the car is fast but I have driven fast cars and I don't Indian roads need so much power. GT TSI touches 140 kmph with ease and overtaking at even 130 kmph is a breeze.

So yes, Punto Abarth is definitely faster but that is it. In every other department the GT TSI is better and I am not even talking about the DSG gearbox. I know some "enthusiasts" will talk about the superiority of manual gearbox for the pleasure of driving, so I say 'to each its own'.

I still am jealous that GT TSI isn't the fastest hatch anymore but I am sorry 12 lakh on road for the car that is just a Delhi socialite's dream of tacky decals and terrible interior quality.

Over and out.

I don't think the price is worth it.

The only reason I don't consider the GT TSI is the auto GB. And even with the lightening quick auto GB it just about keeps up with a ANHC MT. So why would bother!

The Abarth with more power & a MT for around 11 OTR is a dream come true. Totally worth the price. As you said, each to his/her own.

[aqualeo2040]

Originally Posted by binish

"Pardon my ignorance, but I really need to know regarding this, hence asking. I have never got a chance to drive any expensive cars in the range of merc, bmw, audi, or supercars. But I have read that all those cars including Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc comes only in Auto transmission (big apologies if I am wrong here). But if what I know is true, pl enlighten me why those big names do not use a manual transmission? "

There's a very logical explanation for this.
All these cars generate very high torque. Exposing the manual gbs to such high torque for aam junta means that there would be a possibility of higher rate of wear/tear.
In race/rally cars, people still use sequential boxes because the drivers know the limits of their vehicles and most engines are for one race only.
So, safe to have some digital nanny keep you from blowing your gearbox/engine up and hence better managed through an auto box.
Also, too much torque in a lower gear means that the TC light would be a permanent feature (another digital nanny).
Most fun is to switch off all these nannies and try to drive out of the parkway in a Beemer when it's been snowing. Free entertainment for everyone around.

Now back to Abarth. Unfortunately, it has not been a household name in India. But I guess we can say the same for Alpina or AMG (not so much AMG). I read my first article about Abarth in the 90's when Overdrive/AutoCar carried an article about Stola Abarth Monotipo. So, it is pretty much an exclusive name which most people wouldn't have heard of.

All the people who have tried/TDed the car are having good things to say about it.
Yes, Fiat ergonomics are always on & off and I concur that once you get used to it, it feels much more comfortable.

Have a suggestion here. We do so many meet ups in various cities, so why not get together and go for a marathon TD across all available showrooms and cars. Each of the groups collate your info and experience and have a one massive post about the pros & cons. This way, we save the mods from comparing apples to oranges (e.g. ivtec to abarth) and also gives a variety of perspective across all petrolheads.

[keroo1099]

Originally Posted by asr245

Manual GB is not for purists. Manuals for for people who like manuals.

In my case the manual just gives me more control when I drive. Small things that add to the driving pleasure like blipping the throttle on an upshift/downshift, or slipping the clutch when wading through Bangalore's rivers, and later powershifting to get that pent up stress out. Pleasures that I can't get from a regular auto or a DSG.

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by vibbs

City iVtec? and a Punto?

Although iVtec is a good engine no doubt, but still two cars cannot be more apart I believe. Boot or no Boot!

I was merely comparing them on their prices. Before Abarth, even we had thought of city as a next car. But that's now on hold.

[shree_shell]

It seems people here are not comprehending the post critically and coming up with opinions! There is straight segregation going on here: FIAT FANBOYS and the AUTO GB BIASED AUDIENCE!
I am no fiat fanboy! Just asserted that manual gearbox is for purists and I stand by that, however flowery and esoteric that word might sound to anyone.
I am currently in market to buy a car within 15L, and am booking a XUV W6 for its practicality.

Regarding the manual GT3 RS, the point is that its regarded as one of the most involving car to drive, regardless of it being discontinued.

Please have a healthy discussion!

Originally Posted by keroo1099

In my case the manual just gives me more control when I drive. Small things that add to the driving pleasure like blipping the throttle on an upshift/downshift, or slipping the clutch when wading through Bangalore's rivers, and later powershifting to get that pent up stress out. Pleasures that I can't get from a regular auto or a DSG.

This is precisely the point of manual GB.

[Higgs_Boson_i]

Originally Posted by iFuel

I'm sorry guys, but I think I'm missing something here. So what am I paying 10L+ for in a hatchback. The engine and BHP, is that it? There is nothing else that tells this car apart from the punto that no one wants to buy. Ok, so there are a few logos replaced, and a tab bit of red color thrown in as well. I guess a DIY and 2 hours later we can have that sorted on a regular Punto as well. This is still a dull looking car, Italian design or not. 145BHP isn't ground breaking, maybe this thing was admirable during her days, whenever it was launched abroad(pardon me but fiat and I don't see eye to eye). I don't see why I would want to plonk 10L+ in a plain jane looking dull car with 145BHP and nothing else to drive home a point about it's road presence. Same story another day, how many enthusiasts out there are going to buy this?

Yes Sir you seem to be missing a lot!! Before I go any further I respect your opinion.

Having said that, you need to judge the car after you have collected the facts please refer to earlier posts on this thread where many bhpians have put forward the difference/additions as opposed to a regular Punto.

Second thing you need to do is go over and do a test drive. I am sure it will change your opinion for the better !!

145 bhp and 200+ NM torque at this price point is simply fantastic and FIAT as a company deserves Respect for making cars such as this and that too making it in India

The looks while can be subjective is definitely not something one can compare to the mass market vehicles which border dangerously close to boring or are down right stupid (pardon my french!!)

Further these mass market hatches , while can take you from Point A to B, also may not exactly bring smiles to your face with their awe inspiring 70-90 HP and less the 150 NM torque!!

So why plonk 12 lakhs on the Abarth Punto because it is worth every penny of it!!! More smiles per mile FIAT has given all of us the true Diwali Cracker!!!

Mods: I had to quote the better part of the paragraph as I have reference to most of it.

[skm1967]

Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins

Test drove The Punto Evo Abarth at Moti Nagar West Delhi, right after the polo Tsi and Creta diesel automatic.
The Volkswagen and Fiat showrooms looked deserted compared to the Chaos and Car buying frenzy at the Hyundai showroom.

As for the driving experience , it can be summed up in one line:

The Punto Abarth eats Creta for breakfast and Polo Tsi for lunch!

The Abarth Punto thrashes the Polo Tsi hollow be it performance or handling. Its just on a different planet. It makes Polo feel slow and annoying.

As for the gearbox I felt that it was slightly better than my friend's Linea T-jet, and is in no way an impediment to the performance and though its it is not slick like the Swift but its much better nissan/renault/ford(new Figo) gearbox.

If you want driving pleasure backed by real performance then this is it. I don't know why on earth are people cribbing about mileage in a hot hatch. My zest revotron (not the last word in fuel efficiency) at times gives me 22+ on expressway (have posted picture in the zest thread as well) at a constant 90 KMPH in 5TH gear.

For me this is it. To hell with diesel automatic SUV and posh badge.
I don't care what my neighbors will say, I don't care if the car sell for crap during resale, I don't care if my leg hurts in traffic(reason for considering automatic), I want to buy this.

Went to Thrust Fiat Moti Nagar today looking forward to a TD of Punto Abarth. There is not even a display vehicle at the dealership. It will be available after a week only. Unfortunately it seems people are posting wrong information here.

[SUPERSPORT]

Originally Posted by WorkingGuru

Btw, does FIAT make pure & complete drivers cars ? One in which a comfortable driver seating position is quite famously, "hard to find" to say the least. Many even say its a "Hit or miss".

Can you please point out which is the pure and complete drivers car under 10 Lakhs? No car is perfect man. The way I see it this is as close as it can get to pure drivers car under 10L.

Originally Posted by WorkingGuru

"Purist", wow sounds like such a nice word. If manuals are for "Purists", then why not simply start doing everything related to driving, manually ? Why at all key-crank to start the car ? They should still have that hand crank at the front of the car, no?

Oh thats great! One of the most logical comparos that I have ever come across in this forum. Hand crank and a manual gearbox. Hoping these kinds of comparisons stop here. No words.

Originally Posted by #ish

So, I am happy that I have the GT TSI. It is, to me, still better than Punto Abarth.

Sure 145 BHP is great and the car is fast but I have driven fast cars and I don't Indian roads need so much power.

So yes, Punto Abarth is definitely faster but that is it. In every other department the GT TSI is better and I am not even talking about the DSG gearbox. I know some "enthusiasts" will talk about the superiority of manual gearbox for the pleasure of driving, so I say 'to each its own'.

I don't think anyone here said that the Polo TSI is a poorer car. May be all the GT owners need to cool down a bit. There isnt any use in comparing TSI and abarth as both are poles apart. But then just to let you know Abarth isnt just about being faster. The stopping power of a regular Punto itself is miles ahead of a Polo. Abarth with all round disc brakes will be even better. Build quality of a Punto is still better than the Polo and so is the ride quality and handling. Then comes the feedback bristling hydraulic steering. So indeed there are various bits which are still better in a Punto than the Polo. Interiors are a subjective thing. But the all black interiors of the abarth is pretty good. I would rate it somewhat near of my polos interior. Agreed the quality of plastics is still better in a VW but the margin has come down a lot. When it comes to driving feel with whatever experience I have had with my Polo and Linea the Abarth will decimate the TSI. And thats what a hot hatch is all about. And for me no matter what a manual and a DSG has got positives and negatives. I miss the feeling of being in total control when I am behind the wheel of my Jetta DSG. And just like that a manual will exercise my leg.

Here are a few snaps of the Abarth Punto @ Pinnacle Fiat in Cochin. The car looks great in person despite all that stickers. I never liked the added sticker work of the abarth but this looks good in real. Yes it will stand out from the crowd but still manage to look great. And yeah the red bits are stickers only and not paint. Which means future owners can freely remove them according to their tastes. They have got 4 bookings including one from actor Mukesh. I couldnt TD it as the launch is only tomorrow. The interiors look nice. Subtle changes like a yellow border on the speedo, seats etc does make the car feel special.

Just for the info of future abarth owners. The gearbox of any new Fiat will be stiff for atleast 8k on the odo. It was similar for the Abarth too. So please dont write it off saying that gearbox is bad. Especially after seeing everything that is being posted on this forum. Fiat gearbox gets a lot smoother once it has run in. Polos gearbox is still better, but with shorter throws for the Abarth it isn't a big deal at all. Am I going to buy it? No, but thats because my pocket is empty as of now. But otherwise I wouldnt look anywhere else for my everyday sports car. Also the ARAI rating is somewhere near 16kmpl I think. Very impressive for a 145 BHP hot hatch. I have extracted upto 18.3 kmpl on my 1.4 FIRE. So I dont think the abarth will be too bad for your pocket. The TSI is also rated at 16.xx kmpl. & Kudos to Fiat for bringing up such a car to this car market where Indians are always treated as undeserving by the top manufacturers.
Cheers.

[carwatcher]

Mate there is no need to educate people who feel that the Abarth is just faster and that's it, in all departments it fails. Though I would love to know the other departments but honestly we all are tired of it.

Originally Posted by SUPERSPORT

Oh thats great! One of the most logical comparos that I have ever come across in this forum. Hand crank and a manual gearbox. Hoping these kinds of comparisons stop here. No words.

So far I have found the two weaknesses with the car, one is lack of Sporty Colour choices and after seeing the pic, no sporty pedals which should've been provided IMHO but we had an example of EcoSport shamelessly charging 11-12K for Rear Wheel Cover.

[d_himan]

Trying to schedule a TD here in bbay..no luck with the online form. I drive a remapped GT TSI now. I do hope the Abarth lives up to my expectations. Leaving behind the DSG is still making me hesitate though - I like speed and seamless acceleration a bit more than involvement. The other hesitation is no ESP. If the Abarth comes with the international version of the engine with the vl36 turbo, no brainier really - a straight 180 bhp remap.

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by skm1967

Went to Thrust Fiat Moti Nagar today looking forward to a TD of Punto Abarth. There is not even a display vehicle at the dealership. It will be available after a week only. Unfortunately it seems people are posting wrong information here.

Well that's interesting.

Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins

Test drove The Punto Evo Abarth at Moti Nagar West Delhi, right after the polo Tsi and Creta diesel automatic.
The Volkswagen and Fiat showrooms looked deserted compared to the Chaos and Car buying frenzy at the Hyundai showroom.

As for the driving experience , it can be summed up in one line:

The Punto Abarth eats Creta for breakfast and Polo Tsi for lunch!

Could you pls clarify. The gentleman here says there was no Punto Abarth on display forget test driving at Moti Nagar dealership.

You have managed to get a lot of us worked up with your experience and I believe a clarification is due.

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

So far I have found the two weaknesses with the car, one is lack of Sporty Colour choices and after seeing the pic, no sporty pedals which should've been provided IMHO but we had an example of EcoSport shamelessly charging 11-12K for Rear Wheel Cover.

The pedals come as a kit which the dealer needs to install before delivery. The one I drove too did not have the pedals installed. It was supposed to be installed during PDI but was not done. I will reconfirm this again.

Originally Posted by vibbs

Well that's interesting.

Could you pls clarify. The gentleman here says there was no Punto Abarth on display forget test driving at Moti Nagar dealership.

You have managed to get a lot of us worked up with your experience and I believe a clarification is due.

The reason that the car was not on display could be that the region wise/dealer wise launch is happening on 24th October (At least in Bangalore). Here too the vehicle is not put on display yet. Should go on display by tomorrow evening and the test drives starting by Saturday.

[Rubbertramps]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

Sorry but you forgot the most important one,

FIAT would wind-up from India before you reach home after taking delivery of the car.

I had a good laugh !

The prime motive of any forum was for learning new things and sharing what you know. But lately forums have become places where you express your opinion and never change it till the cows come home. You hold on tight ! The cows never came home !

Even if Abarth was given with a Auto transmission and priced at par with competition, it would have been the following things that would have drawn criticism.

1. The name Abarth.
2. Inferior quality of plastics.
3. After sales experience.
4. Brand name FIAT.
5. Resale value.

Let me ask you all a question.


Had it been launched with the same features and the price tag of Polo, do you think the Abarth would have succeeded?

I am sure it would have been a failure from Day 1 due to the bad brand name and the after sales experience. Thank heavens FIAT launched it with a higher powered engine and a higher price to distinguish itself from the competition. Now the customer would be very clear whether he wants an Abarth or a Polo and why he wants em instead of rejecting a machine for the brand name image and the after sales experience.

Saves the point where Abarth getting rejected for same old reason compared to now where its getting rejected for a higher price(As they claim) and for too much power. The current rejection reasons seems to be a little meaningful and new! Kudos !

I think its a great move to launch something where competition is minimal and FIAT has done the right thing. Same was the case with Renault and Yamaha !

[Sathya_sc]

Originally Posted by #ish

The interiors were just nauseating and ergonomics poorer than Mali.

Sure 145 BHP is great and the car is fast but I have driven fast cars and I don't Indian roads need so much power. GT TSI touches 140 kmph with ease and overtaking at even 130 kmph is a breeze.

So yes, Punto Abarth is definitely faster but that is it. In every other department the GT TSI is better

I still am jealous that GT TSI isn't the fastest hatch anymore but I am sorry 12 lakh on road for the car that is just a Delhi socialite's dream of tacky decals and terrible interior quality.

Over and out.

I don't think the price is worth it.

Oh man, now someone is saying that Punto's interiors are Nauseating and is of terrible quality.. Kind of being portrayed so cheap and 3rd world!! Going by this statement, I am left to imagine that GT TSI has the interior quality of something like a Bentley or a RR. I have to agree that it is much better than the old Punto (though, not to the extent, you have stated) and marginally better than the current Evo.

and coming to speed, you are saying Indian roads don't need so much speed and then trying to somehow convince yourself to say that GT does 140 with ease and overtaking is a breeze at 130. Don't you think you are contradicting yourself.. I mean, at one point you say Indian roads do not warrant so much speed and at the other hand you say that GT TSI does 140 with ease!! I do agree that GT TSI is fast, but what are you trying to convey here.. Indian Govn. has to give us better roads?

As I read your post, it is so apparent that you are stung by the scorpion and are trying to convince yourself not to fall for it. Couldn't resist to say, how much you are envying the scorpion and it comes out so loudly.

You have to accept the fact that the automobile industry keeps evolving and today Abarth has taken the hot hatch crown from GT TSI.. you are probably feeling that you are driving a relatively slower car than the Abarth, but that's the fact and you cannot change it by saying what you are saying. Tomorrow, the same position may be taken over by the Polo GTI and we all have to accept it again.. so, move on.

To summarize, if you believe TSI is good or better than the Abarth in every possible way, its fine. But there is no need to undermine the Punto or talk about Indian roads not warranting speeds etc., while you convince yourself for not changing to Abarth from TSI.

Esp. stating that the interiors are nauseating (synonym - disgusting) and are of terrible (google says that the synonyms of terrible are hideous, awful, dreadful etc., etc.,) quality are too much a stretch and absolutely misleading. Let us be more responsible pls.