[rdhawan15]

The National Green Tribunal (NGT) on Tuesday banned all diesel vehicles over ten years old in Delhi and adjoining cities.

All vehicles entering Delhi will be checked at borders for pollution, weight and age from Wednesday. Local commissioners appointed by the tribunal will conduct surprise checks.

Link to article: http://www.hindustantimes.com/newdel...1-1334769.aspx

This was seen coming, and has finally happened today.

[gsurya]

Utterly stupid decision, I have a 16 year old Petrol Fiat Uno that still performs very well & is less "polluting" than many more younger cars.

So nobody can run vintage Premier Padminis or Ambassadors in Delhi any more?

Bi-annual PUC check is an utter formality & a corrupt process run by mafia that has links to traffic policemen - that is the real issue but the Govt cant dare tackle that.

[caged_nomad]

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/46559844.cms

The government has said that it will allow private vehicles over 15 years to ply on delhi roads. Apparently the Government and the Judiciary need to sit and have a chat

[abhijeetK]

The question is how they are going to implement this.
A well maintained car (though ten years old) can have less CO and NoX emissions than poorly maintained vehicles like in Public transport or other commercial vehicles.
The better solution is, improve the PUC check methods. PUC check centers should be restricted to reputed institutions not on some mobile vehicles.

[noopster]

Originally Posted by rdhawan15

All vehicles entering Delhi will be checked at borders for pollution, weight and age from Wednesday. Local commissioners appointed by the tribunal will conduct surprise checks.

What does this mean? Even out-of-town registered diesel vehicles >10 years old will be turned away? That sounds harsh!

Originally Posted by gsurya

Utterly stupid decision, I have a 16 year old Petrol Fiat Uno that still performs very well & is less "polluting" than many more younger cars.

So nobody can run vintage Premier Padminis or Ambassadors in Delhi any more?

Bi-annual PUC check is an utter formality & a corrupt process run by mafia that has links to traffic policemen - that is the real issue but the Govt cant dare tackle that.

Article clearly says diesel. Not sure what the rule for petrol cars is.

[GTO]

Hmmm, so what happens to the owner of a perfectly good 10 year old diesel car? He will be forced to upgrade.

1. Delhi forms the largest car market in the country.

2. Many car manufacturers are suffering in a sluggish market.

It's the car maker's lobby behind such a ridiculous move.

[noopster]

Originally Posted by GTO

Hmmm, so what happens to the owner of a perfectly good 10 year old diesel car? He will be forced to upgrade.

I was imagining the trauma faced by a guy with a perfectly maintained Jeep for example. It's really unfair to classify an enthusiast with the hoi polloi oil-burners who stink up the environment. And 2005 isn't that far back- hell my Swifty is 2006-made and looks good to go for a bit (touch wood!)

It's the car maker's lobby behind such a ridiculous move.

Am sure you have a strong reason to say that. It seems counter-productive though, especially when cars these days are built to last much more than 10-15 years.

[vipul_singh]

Does anyone have a clue on what is going on between the Government and NGT? On one hand, the government says that vehicle legality has to be linked to fitness tests, while on the other hand the NGT again passes a blanket order.

I am amazed at our legal and governance structure. Even as there are clear provisions to handle vehicles > 15 years old (as per MVA and CMVR), a body like the NGT can pass an order which violates the provisions in spirit.

And here we have the Parliament wasting its time over 'kaali / gori' etc.

[drsingh]

http://www.zigwheels.com/news-featur...n-delhi/20748/


I doubt the NGT can circumvent the laws and procedures in place that easily.

They should instead pull up the government for enforcing emission checks and upgrading emission standards. The older non compliant vehicles will die a natural death.


Unless this is due to automotive industry lobbyists whispering in the tribunal 's ear.

Then they can pass any order they like!

[vasudeva]

Great stuff. I have lived in Delhi for 47 years and the air quality had improved in 2001-02 but went back to the same dirty old self by late 2000s. Even that was directed by the court.

Our health and the health of our kids is more important. What is Swach Bharat if not a major part of it is clean air. I travel a lot including to foreign parts where humans can breathe clean oxygen, and there is a huge difference in our health and stamina levels in a place with clean air than in a place where we inhale oxygen mixed with all sorts of stuff.

Really great decision but enforcement??. Or an excuse for police and govt to make money. Only time will tell.

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by GTO

Hmmm, so what happens to the owner of a perfectly good 10 year old diesel car? He will be forced to upgrade.

1. Delhi forms the largest car market in the country.

2. Many car manufacturers are suffering in a sluggish market.

It's the car maker's lobby behind such a ridiculous move.

Completely agree with what you have mentioned. The recently launched and relatively hot selling Dzire is said to have Rs. 15,000/- discount. Its evident that the market is sluggish. All mass market car manufacturers have small diesel cars, celerio diesel is said to be ready and launch is barely two months away.
This is just one more method of educing somebdoy's hard earned money.
Better or rather more precise methods would help and its only common sense. Those who would have purchased Innova/Swift back in 2005 would be forced to change the car.
This would also, atleast in my mind, raise question about petrol vs diesel car question. After this move, there are chances that many will select petrol car and also pay more for fuel.
I am also wondering what are parameters or variables they have considered before arriving at the figure of 10 year. It has to be atleast 15 years. Not a correct way to treat citizens with an illogical move. How many industries are checked ? What is fuel quality ?
And this gives the law enforcers one more point to elicit "fines". Government, irrespective of leader, displays a propensity usually against the very citizens who empower them.

[vasudeva]

Step up. At least someone is doing something even if drastic. We need more of such stuff and more and more, and maybe things will get better.

Clean air is our right and why should more bear the cost for the choices of fewer (so called external dis-economies or costs). Personally I will gladly support banning 15 year old petrol cars too. No more comments.

[vipul_singh]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

Great stuff...

I respectfully disagree with this particular opinion. While having clean air is vital (as your rightly said), it is also important to address the problem in the right way.

For example, tomorrow a dictatorial order can also say "Only 1 million human beings would be allowed in a city at any given point of time". I am sure that even though it would definitely solve the pollution problem, it would be an unpalatable solution. Now, if this sort of an order seems absurd, so is a blanket order banning > x years. And what if tomorrow someone bans vehicles older than 1 year? That would be absurd too, right? Fundamentally, linking legality to age is incorrect.

Vehicles are nothing but a mass of components and maintenance (or lack of it) is key to its roadworthiness. I also believe that the cause (of reducing pollution) is just. If required, there could be a stringent emissions standards based testing program to determine pollution levels

Problem is that in our country, the basic processes (pollution testing) are not looked at. Instead we have blanket "solutions" like this.

[kisharchit]

I travel in a 2002 Toyota Qualis which has done 9 lac kms. It is maintained perfectly well by my cab driver and can easily last 5-7 more years. He has couple more old qualis in his fleet. What does he do? Change all of them? Not easy. Imagine their plight!

[adisag]

Originally Posted by GTO

Hmmm, so what happens to the owner of a perfectly good 10 year old diesel car? He will be forced to upgrade.

I'm more concerned about what happens to the actual car, will it stand on the side of the road, blocking up valuable road space and increasing traffic jams and congestion? will it be scrapped and end up in a toxic landfill? Will it be shipped to some village where it will probably end up being poorly maintained due to lack of service facilities?

All of the above defeat the supposed purpose of the ban in the first place - someone needs to give the NGT a lesson in life cycle carbon emissions. The pollution caused by the manufacturing a new car is significantly more than the paltry gain (if at all) by replacing a well maintained and efficient 10 year old hatchback with a modern gas guzzling SUV.

Originally Posted by GTO

It's the car maker's lobby behind such a ridiculous move.

Now that makes sense.

Originally Posted by vasudeva

Great stuff.
Really great decision but enforcement??. Or an excuse for police and govt to make money. Only time will tell.

I think its a totally misdirected decision, probably influenced by powerful lobbying.