[zenren]

Originally Posted by mustangboss302

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/46939104.cms

A link from the TOI today stating 1 lakh trees have been cut in the past 8 years. No wonder the pollution level had to increase and the lack of oxygen is causing breathing problems. Government allowed to cut trees and now that has bounced back on the public first with less air to breathe and then this ban. At least to compensate the loss they should have asked the metro to plant trees to compensate for the loss. Also the builders should have been forced to have a dedicated green area in the premises of their projects without which their plans should not have been passed or approved. The officials would not have thought of the future damage this could have caused while filling their pockets. Seems there are a bunch of morons in the planning committee.

This seems to be the real reason behind the poor air quality. If the green cover depleted from 33% to 10%, it is no wonder that the people are suffering from respiratory ailments. Even if all vehicles are banned and factories are shutdown, we still need trees to restore the oxygen balance.

[Lalvaz]

According to NGT, there are 3 major reasons for the deteriorating air quality in NCR. (http://www.greentribunal.gov.in/Writ...OA7-4-2015.pdf)

1) Burning of plastic waste/agricultural and horticultural waste in the open
2) Dust due to construction activities
3) Vehicular traffic, of which diesel vehicles are the biggest contributor

Now the NGT has already passed strictures against the first 2, but the implementation is not being done by the state government, so they decided to clamp down on #3.

Pray, how is it going to solve the problem, when it is not even the biggest cause.

Why not focus on all 3, starting from the biggest polluter?

[ANewExperience]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Now the NGT has already passed strictures against the first 2, but the implementation is not being done by the state government, so they decided to clamp down on #3.

Hi, I would like to give an analogy to your post.

Headlines: Man falls in tiger cage, becomes its prey

Reasons:
1 - The fence was not properly installed and maintained.
2 - The tiger was not properly fed, so once it saw a food source, it didn't mind the surrounding threats and went to attack it anyway.
3- The tiger is a man-eater

Solution - Kill the tiger

On a serious note, It would have been justifiable if they had set up norms for vehicular pollution levels, ask each vehicle to get certified and if it passes use them. I guess 10 year old car and lorry contribute differently. A five year old lorry can be more harmful to many properly maintained 15 yr diesel cars.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

3) Vehicular traffic, of which diesel vehicles are the biggest contributor

Can you point me to a study which shows diesel vehicles over 10 years old being the biggest reason?
As a counterpoint, I can point you to a study proving that the highest pollution levels are when out of state trucks ply and number of cars are very less.
Its like saying, there are criminals living in city X. Lets bomb city X

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Assuming a 10- or 15-year-old car, say in the Netherlands, meets prevalent emissions regulations and is mechanically in perfect condition, what would be the action taken - use it or junk it? At what age, usually, are cars in countries of Europe junked?

.

Not quite sure, but I would think 10-15 year old cars would start moving toward the junkyard, by and large.

Most people would just not feel comfortable driving a car that is this old. They might think it will start incurring huge cost, become unreliable and typically new cars tend to give a better FE. Not necessarily all true, but you wont find many cars offered second hand with more then 150.000 km.

The other thing is that in Europe car repairs are expensive, a proper equipped dealer or independent workshop could easily be charging Euro 65-75 an hour. On top of that comes part.

Jeroen

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by ANewExperience

Hi, I would like to give an analogy to your post.

Headlines: Man falls in tiger cage, becomes its prey

Solution - Kill the tiger

I think you misunderstood my point. I also pointed out the stupidity of the authorities to focus on the last reason when the other 2 reasons were generating more air pollution.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Can you point me to a study which shows diesel vehicles over 10 years old being the biggest reason?
As a counterpoint, I can point you to a study proving that the highest pollution levels are when out of state trucks ply and number of cars are very less.
Its like saying, there are criminals living in city X. Lets bomb city X

Tsk1979: I already quoted the NGT order and that was based on studies.

To quote from pg 3: "It is reported further that as many as 80,000 trucks enter Delhi every night and sleeping population is compelled to inhale high particulate matters resulting in serious health hazards as diesel fuel can damage the lungs, brain and even cause cancer. It has been pointed out that diesel is the prime source for bringing serious air pollution in Delhi particularly and children are even finding it difficult to breathe."

You are only repeating what NGT is saying in its report.

[ANewExperience]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

I think you misunderstood my point. I also pointed out the stupidity of the authorities to focus on the last reason when the other 2 reasons were generating more air pollution

Lalvaz,

I didn't misunderstand your point. Actually, I totally agree with you. I was giving an analogy to the government's actions.

[rdhawan15]

Just in that the Supreme Court has dismissed a plea against the NGT order banning plying of 10 year old diesel vehicles in Delhi.

So, NGT seems to have found a new supporter in the SC and remains to be seen what will happen on 1st May.

Excerpts from the news article:

NEW DELHI: In an order that could improve Delhi's deteriorating air quality, the Supreme Court on Monday dismissed plea challenging the National Green Tribunal's order prohibiting diesel vehicles that are over 10 years old from plying in the national capital.

"Let us assist and not discourage them (NGT)," the SC bench said while dismissing the petition.

More details at the link below:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/46984742.cms

[mustangboss302]

Delhi get ready for jacked up vegetable prices milk prices. I hope they give respite to petrol vehicles at least. The transporters will now take this order seriously and let's see what next on May 1st.

[saket77]

The news report on ToI says that NGT has also put a ban on petrol vehicles which are over 15 years of age.

The NGT had on April 8 ordered that all 10-year-old diesel vehicles and 15-year-old petrol ones be taken off the roads in the National Capital Region.

[mustangboss302]

Now that the Supreme Court has intervened, the truckers will go on strike leading to high vegetable prices. The government will not compensate the loss of the general public getting affected with the ban. . I would love to see the reaction of the person I know who owns a 1996 Model Rolls Royce Silver Spirit - II, when the NGT will come to take his car worth almost a Crore to the scrap yard. . I don't know but now it seems that Mr. Nitin Gadkari is also not saying anything as his plea got rejected (not sure if it was his plea or someone else had filed it). I hope the RTO issue the Objection Certificate to the owners so that they can at-least sell their cars at whatever rate they get for them so that they do not feel cheated both ways. Personally I can not think of any other way out to this situation at this point of time when the supposedly ruling party is not thinking of the Aam Admi with limited source of income. Being in automobile sales, customers have started asking me how does the manufacturer plan to tackle this situation and I am sure that the manufacturers also would care a damn as Delhi is not the only market they have to look at for their numbers. Or maybe they make are asked to make Delhi NCR specific vehicles which would sound ridiculous. God help us.

[heydj]

Three cheers for the Supreme Court. Was really worried that the SC will stay the NGT order. The 15 year ban on Petrol Vehicles should also become active immediately.

Just wondering if this order will impact govt vehicles or not as lot of ministries, including Armed forces have old diesel vehicles based out of Delhi.

[saket77]

So this decision pushes up the ownership costs of a car to the roof. For eg. say I buy a car for Rs. 9.5L on road today. Apparently, if the rule remains same for another 10 years then my ownership cost per day comes to:

-----> 9,50000/10 = 95,000 per year; or Rs. 261/- per day!

This is after discounting the further interest costs on your vehicle loan which is another substantial amount. Also, this excludes the fuel, insurance and maintenance costs and other expenses like tolls, etc.

So, in my opinion, if I am spending over Rs. 300-350 per day just for owning the car (mind you, not driving it), I think I am better off with a hired cab. Or a cheap A segment car at the most.

[nutmello]

SC rejects plea against NGT's order to ban 15-yr-old vehicles in Delhi

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...campaign=cppst

just saw this headlines in economic times today at 6pm. keeping fingers crossed on impact. worried that slowly such a ban will become pan India. also was just thinking that the taxi companies are in for a big time business, as most of them are getting millions of dollars funding, did they forethought that such a thing is going to happen?
now why buy a car at all in big cities? does it make any sense?

[mustangboss302]

Originally Posted by heydj

Three cheers for the Supreme Court. Was really worried that the SC will stay the NGT order. The 15 year ban on Petrol Vehicles should also become active immediately.

Just wondering if this order will impact govt vehicles or not as lot of ministries, including Armed forces have old diesel vehicles based out of Delhi.

Good Observation. It was there in TOI that a third of the emergency and other vehicles in Delhi are coming under the parameter of this ban and though they are fit to go for some more years as they pass every parameter of fitness test. Now if the government has to replace this it will be from the money of the Taxpayer that could have been utilized otherwise for the welfare of the public. As we say in Hindi - Andher Nagri Choupat Raja. God save this country. The Delhi Metro has chopped off a lakh of trees in past few years no wonder there is no air to breathe. Instead of planting trees on every patch of land you see, the government wants to make money out by selling it to builders (and making something for themselves under the table). A diesel car consumes less than a truck and with a mere 3 kilometers to a litre efficiency of a truck to 15 of a car, it consumes 5 times more and at the same time crossing a 35 kilometer distance to cross Delhi it pollutes 5 times more than a regular passenger car. On top of that if the truck is coming from UP it can have 70% diesel and 30% kerosene can cause pollution and can not be checked by the traffic police. Plus the DG sets of the power hungry cellular phone towers shopping malls corporate complex etc. are not in the net of the NGT. The poorly maintained construction equipment are also not checked by the NGT. The jams that are caused by poorly maintained roads and metro construction sites eats up gallons and gallons of fuel just like that is totally neglected as a cause of pollution by the NGT. Its only this time that the NGT is getting stiff otherwise the ban it had implemented prohibiting use of plastic bags does not hold good as I see vegetable sellers and ice cream sellers still using them. Was that not polluting? Why is the industrial and domestic waste left loose in Yamuna? Can't the river supply drinking water to some part of Delhi? NGT get your facts and acts right!