[Aditya]

With the start of the new fiscal, North India has moved to Euro IV standard fuel. The move is expected to bring down the levels of particulate emissions from diesel vehicles. Euro IV diesel has a much lesser sulphur content (50 ppm) compared to BS III fuel (350 ppm).

While the supply of Euro IV fuel has started in all north India cities, truck manufacturers are still not producing engines that can comply with the standards. It will be only in October that Euro IV-compliant vehicles will be rolled out. That means Delhi, the national capital, will not experience a big drop in the levels of pollution for another six months at least. Euro-IV fuel has been available in 13 cities across the country including Delhi since 2010. The Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers (SIAM) has stated that it is waiting for a notification from the government regarding the implementation of the norms. The body will place orders for new components of Euro IV vehicles.

Sulphur is directly linked to emissions of respirable particulate matter, a major pollutant in Delhi. About 46,000 heavy vehicles enter the city on a daily basis. Many of them are from other states and do not comply with the pollution norms. However, the absence of peripheral expressways, they have no option but to ply through the city.

A study by The Energy and Resources Institute (TERI) reveals that if stricter fuel norms are not implemented, PM2.5 levels will rise three time and NOx levels will go up six times the current levels by 2030. However, if Euro IV is implemented throughout the country by 2015 and Euro V is introduced by 2020 then PM2.5 and NOx can be limited to slightly-higher-than-current levels.

Source: ET Auto

[StarScream]

Finally, this was the easy thing to do. I wonder why they procrastinated over it for so long.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Aditya

. Euro IV diesel has a much lesser sulphur content (50 ppm) compared to BS III fuel (350 ppm).

While the supply of Euro IV fuel has started in all north India cities, truck manufacturers are still not producing engines that can comply with the standards. It will be only in October that Euro IV-compliant vehicles will be rolled out. That means Delhi, the national capital, will not experience a big drop in the levels of pollution for another six months at least.

I think there are at least two different effects. First there is the effect of having fuel with a lower sulphur content. That effect is immediate as soon as the fuel is introduced and no other fuel is for sale. Not sure where we are in Delhi with this. Is Euro IV diesel now mandatory.

It depends a bit on the diesel engine, but I thought that most older diesel would still run fine on the this Euro IV. I checked the Shell site and they say any diesel engine can run on their ultra low sulphur diesel)

I seem to recall some problems reported in the USA and Europe with VW TDi engines. Something with seals or so that perished. I dont think valve and valve seat problems are the issue at large. But maybe somebody has more insight. Whatever it is, it appears to be a very marginal problem if any at all.

The second effect is when new diesel engines get introduced with far better emissions. Are we saying that the introduction of Euro IV is connected to that, or are they independent? I thought they are independent.

Whichever way, even when manufacturer start producing these new diesel engines it will take a considerable time, before sufficien (new) trucks ply the roads of Delhi to start making any sort of impact. Its really down to have quickly or slowly will the current diesel engine be repaired by the new version. When I look at the average truck on the Delhi roads, I dont see to many trucks todate. Not so sure what will motivate owners and truck operators to upgrade to new trucks with new engines unless there is a real need and or benefit.

Without knowing the exact numbers and details, I find it difficult to believe that the introduction of Euro IV diesel and the new engines is going to make an impact very soon. I think Delhi, and various other large cities in India need to come up with a much more comprehensive plan to deal with the pollution

Jeroen

[zenren]

Why is south India exempted for another year? This is the first time I'm seeing a south-north divide without clearly specifying the states. Would Maharashtra and Madhya Pradesh come under south or north?

Originally Posted by Jeroen

It depends a bit on the diesel engine, but I thought that most older diesel would still run fine on the this Euro IV. I checked the Shell site and they say any diesel engine can run on their ultra low sulphur diesel)

BS-4 is already implemented in NCR and 13 cities. I've been using both my Swifts in Hyderabad and I've not faced any issues with filling in BS-4 spec petrol or diesel in BS-3 Swifts. From what I understood, the fuel gets costlier (due to the higher purification costs?) but the emission benefits out of it cannot be derived without a BS-4 engine.

[sarthakgupta]

Originally Posted by StarScream

Finally, this was the easy thing to do. I wonder why they procrastinated over it for so long.

Not so easy. Refineries needed considerable upgradation (read costs as well as time) to produce Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD).

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Not sure where we are in Delhi with this. Is Euro IV diesel now mandatory.

It was mandatory in Delhi along with 12 major cities for quite some time.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

It depends a bit on the diesel engine, but I thought that most older diesel would still run fine on the this Euro IV. I checked the Shell site and they say any diesel engine can run on their ultra low sulphur diesel)

I seem to recall some problems reported in the USA and Europe with VW TDi engines. Something with seals or so that perished. I dont think valve and valve seat problems are the issue at large. But maybe somebody has more insight. Whatever it is, it appears to be a very marginal problem if any at all.

Sulphur acts as a lubricant in the engine. Therefore, if the amount of sulphur goes down, the lubricating properties of the fuel are lost. If the engines have not been designed to work on ULSD, it may lead to considerable damage to the engine over long usage. However, at present almost all passenger level diesel engines in India can handle ULSD, the only difference being the upgraded EGR and CatCon systems to clean the emissions. Euro-5, however requires very advanced exhaust cleaning systems to clean out the NOx emissions (requiring urea injection based after treatment systems), raising the maintenance costs of diesel vehicles several folds.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Whichever way, even when manufacturer start producing these new diesel engines it will take a considerable time, before sufficien (new) trucks ply the roads of Delhi to start making any sort of impact. Its really down to have quickly or slowly will the current diesel engine be repaired by the new version.

Not possible to retrofit engine modifications, if required.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

When I look at the average truck on the Delhi roads, I dont see to many trucks todate. Not so sure what will motivate owners and truck operators to upgrade to new trucks with new engines unless there is a real need and or benefit.

Without knowing the exact numbers and details, I find it difficult to believe that the introduction of Euro IV diesel and the new engines is going to make an impact very soon. I think Delhi, and various other large cities in India need to come up with a much more comprehensive plan to deal with the pollution

Jeroen

True

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by balajisv

In a significant step to improve ambient air quality, the National Green Tribunal today held that all diesel vehicles which are more than 10 years old will not be permitted to ply in Delhi.

We will see what happens with this move of the national Green Tribunal. Last one about not letting any 15 year old vehicles into Delhi got torpedoed.

Of course, something needs to give, I'm not denying this, but this doesnt sound very practical. Although I dont have any statistics if I go by what I see on the roads of Delhi, very few of the diesel trucks are under 10 years old.

Jeroen

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I think there are at least two different effects. First there is the effect of having fuel with a lower sulphur content. That effect is immediate as soon as the fuel is introduced and no other fuel is for sale. Not sure where we are in Delhi with this. Is Euro IV diesel now mandatory.

It depends a bit on the diesel engine, but I thought that most older diesel would still run fine on the this Euro IV. I checked the Shell site and they say any diesel engine can run on their ultra low sulphur diesel)

Sulfur is used for lubricating the fuel pumps in diesel engine vehicles. Low sulfur diesel does not lubricate as well. SO I guess it can harm the fuel pumps?

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

Not so easy. Refineries needed considerable upgradation (read costs as well as time) to produce Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD).

You're confusing the issue. Euro 4 doesn't use ULSD, that is for Euro 5 onwards. Euro 4 is low sulfur diesel, which as you said is already used in metros. The investment on the refinery end is minimal. What you speak of is needed for the jump to ULSD, and for that you can't have this staggered approach because Euro 4 fuel will harm a Euro 5 engine.

[rajneeesh]

While Euro IV norms were in place in 13 odd cities, a lot of trucks passing thru Delhi would refuel in Haryana/ Punjab and other neighbouring states where only Euro III Diesel was available. This Diesel had 350 PPM Sulphur which is 7 times more than Euro IV Diesel. We should expect some improvement in air quality. The real difference would take time as the Euro IV trucks will start joining the fleets only after October 2015 ( though SIAM had asked for more time to make the switch) and it will be 2-3 years before the older trucks start going off road.

[sarthakgupta]

Originally Posted by StarScream

You're confusing the issue. Euro 4 doesn't use ULSD, that is for Euro 5 onwards. Euro 4 is low sulfur diesel, which as you said is already used in metros. The investment on the refinery end is minimal. What you speak of is needed for the jump to ULSD, and for that you can't have this staggered approach because Euro 4 fuel will harm a Euro 5 engine.

Yes you are correct regarding LSD and ULSD. Thanks for clarifying.

However, AFAIK refineries are actually being upgraded for Euro-6 in one shot and not only for Euro-4. Oil companies are saying that now supplying Euro-4, Euro-5 and Euro-6 will be more of a policy decision.

[rajneeesh]

I hope that the government acts decisively and fast and prepones the Bharat Stage 6 norms by a few years. It is more logical to reduce emissions by improving fuel quality
(supplied by a few refineries) ather than have the circus act being enacted courtesy the NGT diktat on scrapping of 10 year old Diesel vehicles in Delhi NCR.