Team-BHP
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https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/)
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer_ash
(Post 4163148)
Now with the Vios launch, we will have the same engine doing duty right from a 8L rupee car till a 16L rupee sedan.
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I think it's simply a case of not investing money to build a new engine for small markets. Other Japanese examples are Honda and Suzuki... and they are the prime competition for Vios with the City and Ciaz.
Honda built their own engine but only has the 1.5 in India, right from Amaze to City. If ever Civic is launched in diesel, I wouldn't be surprised if they plonk it there as well!
Suzuki has almost given up their plans of in-house diesel engine. They have the national engine of India, the 1.3, on every car across the board. The 1.6 came as a refreshing change though has not picked up steam.
As a fellow member mentioned, diesels are losing traction (as seen by sales figures as well) and that's why perhaps the apprehension in investments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinodDevil81
(Post 4163439)
Agreed.
But in many of those markets Corolla is a C-segment sedan.
I think that is exactly what racer_ash was trying to say.
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Bingo. That is exactly where I am coming from. Let alone the Vios, even the Corolla is not necessarily an aspirational product from a US or UK standpoint. We all know the situation in India though. Even cars like Elantra, which are not exactly aspirational in those markets get better engines. What additional value is a Vios or Corolla giving a consumer when he is moving from Etios apart from better interiors and features? (I am talking purely from a Diesel standpoint, though I agree market is moving away from Diesels).
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinodDevil81
(Post 4163439)
Agreed.
But in many of those markets Corolla is a C-segment sedan.
I think that is exactly what racer_ash was trying to say.
That engine is ok for Vios, but it is a misfit for Corolla in India, considering the segment in which it is placed.
Isn't it a bit awkward for a 20 Lakh D-segment sedan to have such a puny engine, which can be found under the hood of even the B-segment Etios Liva hatchback?
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Okay, it looks like my post was not clear.
I agree with you all points.:D
What I meant is to say is that the lack of proper diesel engine option to buyers is not just in India, but abroad as well. :)
What I'm most interested in seeing are the following variants for the Vios.
The current 90 PS diesel engine of the Toyota which is used in Corolla doesn't make any sort of sense in typical Indian driving conditions. More than the PS numbers, it's the shape of the torque curve and the turbo lag which concerns me.
Maybe, I'll have to wait another 3 years for the hybrid considering the pace at which Toyota releases something new especially for the Indian market.
Coming straight from the mouth of a Toyota biggie in Japan, while they understand financial constraints of Indians but still they feel that Indians are not good car buyers. Our focus on price and feature list outweighs all other factors like looks, safety and especially ride and handling.
Considering this background no wonder we will get old generation engines from Toyota until regulation forces them to upgrade.
Toyota does use a 1.6L(112hp) & a 2.0L(143hp) diesel for the Avensis in the UK.
What's stopping them from using either of these engines in the Indian market?
Motoroctane reports that Toyota is ready with Vios for launch.
Launch expected in Mid 2018. Will be showcased at Auto Expo 2018.
Only Petrol Engine (1.5) on Offer. 5/6 Speed Manual, Automatic - Not Sure.
https://youtu.be/wNiot20tcDI
I have Brand Fatigue with Toyota India. The Innova is great but other than that no announcement seems to excite me anymore. Why aren't they bringing out their big guns?
Toyota Vios to launch in India during the festive season of 2018. Diesel variant yet to be decided.
Quote:
The Vios will come powered by a 108hp version of the 1.5-litre petrol it currently sells in India. This DOHC 16-valve engine will get dual VVT-I or Toyota’s continuously variable valve timing, higher compression pistons and a more aggressive fuel delivery system. This should allow the Vios to enjoy strong performance, the muscular responses of the engine; something to look forward to.
With automatics selling well in the segment, Toyota has also decided to launch the car with a CVT variant. The unit can be used in manual mode as well, with seven steps pre-selected.
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link
Muscular performance? with 108 horses on offer? That too in a segment that already has the i-Vtec Honda City and the 123 horse chariot - the Verna?
Am I missing something here, or is it just journalistic word play?
I doubt the ability of Vios to make a dent in the C - segment sedans. Honda City, Maruti Suzuki Ciaz and Hyundai Verna are a formidable opposition. The vios is shorter, narrower, lesser in wheelbase than the Ciaz, is sold as Inferior to City in foreign markets, Hyundai has the fresh looks, interiors and features and exciting engines. Vios is going to come up short if the dimensions remain the same. And if Toyota keeps conservative interiors and premium pricing, it is doomed. People at this price segment are also looking at compact SUV's. It might end up being up another Etios. But without any interest from the Taxi segment if it is priced at a premium.
I think the new Toyota Rush can take on both the sedans and the compact SUV's in this segment. A baby innova if you will. Will play well on the Innova theme and the strength of the brand as an SUV player in India.
https://www.tnhonline.com/2017/11/25...esia-show/amp/
Toyota should focus on the growing SUV segment instead of trying to get on board a crowded c segment sedan space.
What if you had a 5 seater SUV with the innova's reliability and ride at about 15 lakhs? That would completely upset the Creta which till now hasn't had any competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aravind.anand
(Post 4311550)
Muscular performance? with 108 horses on offer? That too in a segment that already has the i-Vtec Honda City and the 123 horse chariot - the Verna?
Am I missing something here, or is it just journalistic word play?
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Very well put...
But Toyota may offer a certain reliability unheard of. If nothing else it increases the options in the market.
Regards
Bharath
Quote:
Originally Posted by aravind.anand
(Post 4311550)
Muscular performance? with 108 horses on offer? That too in a segment that already has the i-Vtec Honda City and the 123 horse chariot - the Verna?
Am I missing something here, or is it just journalistic word play?
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When they can offer a 1364cc 87bhp engine in a 16+lakh sedan, ~110bhp is rocket ship performance by their standards!:uncontrol
Well, they give a decently spec'ed simple-looking 90 bhp 1.5L petrol at 7.75 ex-showroom, in a price range with odd-looking less-powered less spacious competitors.
Same engine block, 20% more power, ...
In a pricier segment, with volumes & competitive cars ...
With a need to avoid crossing ₹10 lakhs ex-showroom in Karnataka to avoid extra 4% road tax (which Honda City SV manages to do) ...
Anybody (looking at Toyota as a car-maker to buy a car from) would be happy at the likelihood of their competitive pricing in the entry sedan segment repeating in the propah sedan petrol segment.
Maybe they don't have a diesel to put in, that will survive the onset of BSVI norms (Maruti is in the same boat for Ciaz & S-Cross, worse - they can't even find a petrol for S-Cross).
As far as actual vehicle to bring in is concerned, predicting Toyota moves seems thankless (I hope @amalji chimes in!) at the best of times. After Delhi diesel ban, Daihutsu rumours, Suzuki tie-up ... who knows why they might be bringing in the Vios!
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