Team-BHP - Desperately wanted: A Hot Hatch for the Indian enthusiast

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Originally Posted by Jeeper1941 (Post 3774168)

I'll add my 2 cents here. I think you're comparing two very different sets of buyers. People who want to buy an Abarth, will still buy an Abarth irrespective of whatever else is out there.

Agreed about the fun part in Abarth. But in India, I don't think there are many die hard fans of Abarth as such and the main buyers here are just enthusiasts who are looking for a hot hatch and will look for the most powerful hatchback in that range. Also, VW enjoys better brand value here and the current GT warm hatches have made quite a name for themselves.

BTW, I think you got me confused that I was talking about the 595 here. The comparison was between Punto and Polo. So the Polo is not any more practical :)

Anyway, my previous post would have some meaning only if VW launch an Indianized GTi with a 1.4 TSI. The 1.8 TSI would be in a completely different budget range and the Punto would not be a competitor at all.

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Originally Posted by Jeeper1941 (Post 3774168)

The fact is that cars like the Abarth have nothing to do with making sense. We should rejoice the fact that in this day and age they exist at all. They are all about the fun of driving, the enjoyment of getting behind the wheel and smiling every time you do so.

While not many people in India might know what Abarth as a brand is (I didn't either) I do know exactly what Fiat is about. Now usually praising one car against another is seen as an insult to the 'other' car but in this case I have no choice - having driven TSi & Punto, one car's driving characteristics is still in my memory. People who say a Fiat has character do not exaggerate one bit.. the way it glides over dodgy patches, the way it handles a turn and the way the steering communicates is at the least a whole segment above VW hatches.

Yes the Fiat is kinda rough around the edges but that's what gives it that character, it drives and handles better than any car in the same price segment. Generally in India 0-100 timings do not matter as much as feeling that connected experience when driving the car, be it 10kph or the latest legal limit of 100 kph & this brand gives exactly that. The TSi felt responsive in the acceleration department, once you adjust the pedal inputs you can precisely modulate speeds even with the auto-box and that is its greatest strength. However brands like Abarth & Fiat to me, are much beyond engines.. they are a cut above- superior mechanicals with emotion. One test drive will make that obvious.

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Originally Posted by theredliner (Post 3774554)

I think it will not be right to categorize enthusiasts as those who puts their money on most powerful cars. As for the fans of both the brands, they will not have any doubts on which brand/car to choose if both the brands position their cars well. Also, most of the enthusiasts are those who usually dare to go beyond vague aspects like brand value - that is the only reason why these enthusiasts are buying a VW(by not bothering about the so talked about high maintenance costs) or a FIAT(by not bothering about the 0-100kmph slowness or FIAT's ASS network). In summary, I don't think there is any room for disappointment for the enthusiasts who want affordable hot hatches - good days are ahead.

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Originally Posted by theredliner (Post 3774554)

Apologies for not realizing you were talking about the Punto :)

It's true that VW enjoys a better brand perception, but it is interesting that recently they have taken a hit with respect to after sales customer care and service and also with their reliability here in Australia.

There was a high-profile incident in 2011 where a Golf suddenly slowed on the freeway in Melbourne and was hit by a truck, and the driver died. A coroners inquest ruled that there was nothing wrong with the car - the driver was on her mobile phone and failed to properly heed the traffic, but the point was that the car did lose power (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-1...issues/5093666) and the family still won the case for a more thorough review (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-2...nquest/5686876).

Anyway, sorry for going somewhat OT, but this case brought forward several complaints against VW, with many owners coming forward with issues that VW had failed to address, the major one being cars suddenly losing power and slowing down.

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/i...531-2nfs9.html

http://www.carsguide.com.au/blog/why...3#.Vcf4kfnxQZw

Has anything similar happened in India (i.e cars losing power/slowing down)? I did not come across any news article or anything on Team-BHP.

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Originally Posted by Jeeper1941 (Post 3774725)

Firstly, no issues. BTW, sorry for the delayed response. Somehow missed the notification.

I was surprised to hear about poor after sales in a country like Australia where consumer laws are a lot stronger. I guess that was the reason why they at least won a chance for a more thorough review. I think the issue with that Golf was due to DSG failure. I have seen a few videos where in the engine loses power suddenly due to DSG malfunction(and a couple of them were from Australia). That's really scary, especially in India where people drive by kissing the rear bumpers of the car in front.

I totally agree about the service part. If VW and FIAT sell a car with comparable power figures in a comparable budget range, I'd personally buy the FIAT mainly for its character and after sales. FIAT's ASS seems to be bad but isn't scary like VW/Skoda.
Other than that, the probability of VW's car coming with DSG alone would be very high. I personally am a fan of manuals. That itself would make me look in the other direction. Also, VW's ASS + DSG's reliability (combined with lesser warranty for DSG in India) would be a lethal combination. That would make me stay away completely.

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Originally Posted by theredliner (Post 3779138)

I totally agree about the service part. If VW and FIAT sell a car with comparable power figures in a comparable budget range, I'd personally buy the FIAT mainly for its character and after sales. FIAT's ASS seems to be bad but isn't scary like VW/Skoda.

Similar thoughts here. If I had to choose an equally powered car between VW and Fiat, I'd choose Fiat, mainly because their ASS is better and improving since they are handling it on their own and the parts are much cheaper too.

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Originally Posted by geeash (Post 3779678)

TD ed S-cross DDIS320 today. Oh my oh. What a torque and pull and power. I think this eats up the GT totally. If only I could afford one.

I do not have numbers for 1.5 GT TDi but the 1.2 GT TSi and 1.6 GT TDi would eat the S Cross 1.6 MJD for breakfast, lunch, evening snacks and dinner. Both variants of GT have a faster 0-100 time, 20-80 in gear (3rd gear) and 40-100 (4th gear). If am not wrong, the S Cross takes 19.6 seconds for 40-100, this is almost 8 seconds over what GT TDi takes and TSI takes less than half of S Cross at around 8-9 seconds.

I am not even bringing in the 1.2 TSi with 7 speed DSG here, it would just demolish the acceleration figures of S Cross thanks to its lightening quick 7 speed DSG, GT TSi is a blast to drive. More than 0-100, in gear timings matter much more in daily drive, Volkswagen knows how to tune its engines perfectly with sorted gear ratios, this is not the case with MJD's, they have significant turbo lag and that does affect acceleration.

S Cross 320 may be better than GT TDi but still does not hold a candle to 1.2 TSi's performance.

With the launch of the Aspire with a 1.5 diesel engine and 100Ps power, we might just have the first hot compact sedan.

Reviews in Autocar and Overdrive indicate a 0-100kmph time of 11 secs! This puts it in the league of the Polo GT's.

If Ford have the dynamics sorted (which appears to be the case) and usually they do, this one is going to be one to watch out for.

Looking at prices the top end Titanium + is lesser than the Polo GT TDI as well by a fair margin.

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 (Post 3779730)

Well, hotter than the rest of the sorry bunch anyway. At least as far as performance goes. Also, interestingly, the Aspire petrol, on paper, is best. Nice peaky 6300rpm max power, and the slightly more power than the alternatives. Wonder how it does in real life.

I fell out of love with diesels and I never took to automatics, even the paddle softer kind. Too bad there aren't any real hot hatches for that customer, except, now, the punto but then the price remains to be seen. Too bad it didn't come out about 7 months ago. I'd have gotten that instead of my swift...

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Originally Posted by coolboy007 (Post 3779696)

If am not wrong, the S Cross takes 19.6 seconds for 40-100, this is almost 8 seconds over what GT TDi takes and TSI takes less than half of S Cross at around 8-9 seconds.

Coolboy007, this is from the T-BHP official review of S-Cross:

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Maruti says that the 0 - 100 dash is completed in 11.30 seconds (13.2 seconds for the 1.3L). That's not too impressive (turbo-lag affecting the time perhaps?).

As it says, definitely not impressive, but its not 19.6 s either.

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More than 0-100, in gear timings matter much more in daily drive, Volkswagen knows how to tune its engines perfectly with sorted gear ratios, this is not the case with MJD's, they have significant turbo lag and that does affect acceleration.

S Cross 320 may be better than GT TDi but still does not hold a candle to 1.2 TSi's performance.

That is true. S Cross cannot beat these performance machines, but is a decent alternative that can do other things well. Compared to these "warm" hatches, can it be called "luke-warm" hatch? :D

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Originally Posted by jetti (Post 3781415)

As it says, definitely not impressive, but its not 19.6 s either

I think you misinterpreted my post jetti, 19.6 is claimed 40-100 in gear acceleration time in 4th gear which is 8-9 seconds over GT twins. 0-100 is 11 seconds as you say.

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That is true. S Cross cannot beat these performance machines, but is a decent alternative that can do other things well. Compared to these "warm" hatches, can it be called "luke-warm" hatch? :D

I never implied that S cross is not a good car, each car is good in particular segments. S Cross is a very decent effort from Maruti, especially the 1.6 MJD, it is a good warm hatch.

VW's Polo could be the hottest hatch in India!

Speculated to launch in early 2016, and most likely be displayed at the Auto expo 2016.

The Polo GTi coming to India will have a six-speed manual transmission only and it will be not be coming with an automatic transmission.

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Volkswagen is looking at introducing the Polo GTi, and there are reports all over the internet. However, the German automaker is testing this on 1.8-litre turbo petrol engine that churns about 168bhp of power and will come mated to a six-speed manual transmission. This petrol engine can produce about 180bhp of power, however it has been detuned to this.

http://motoroctane.com/news/21045-16...oming-to-india