[mroptimist]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

The FJ Cruiser has been discontinued globally if I'm not mistaken.

No it is still sold for e.g; in both USA and Middle East.

In UAE the top end costs AED 154,900 which is roughly 25 lakhs INR. If they bring it as a CKD around 40-45 lakhs it would definitely sell but only with a diesel heart I suppose.

The relevant links.

http://www.toyota.com/fjcruiser/#!/Welcome

Thanks.

[indusboy]

This is exactly my dilemma. I am looking to replace my Ford Endy 4X4 AT and upgrade to a "better" SUV late next year, and don't seem to have many options in the 40L-50L range.

[pgsagar]

Many consider German SUVs to be be grown hatchbacks. I have seen some rich guys in my town who can afford to buy even a 5 crore car but they happily drive around in Fortuners. When I spoke to one such guy he says German SUVs do not appeal to him at all. Sedans, yes. But not SUVs. Forget him Even I feel there is nothing beyond Fortuner, not even LC, which can match the looks of a Fortuner. Mind you, I am only referring to butch looks ( reason most people buy SUVs for ) and not performance, off-roadability handling, dynamics etc. etc. Most laymen do not care a hoot about such things. Not for nothing Fortuner is a roaring success. It has the awesome butch looks ( white colour ) along with that T badge. I agree with Sheel. When people are buying 50-60 lakh sedans why would they not buy SUVs. After all, India IS an SUV country.

[PPS]

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

got to know about the Prado being a 1 Cr car. What on earth is wrong with Toyota?

Toyota selling Prado at 1cr has to be the biggest joke of the year! The GL & Q7 are both cheaper.

Are Nissan and Ford sleeping?

For 34 lakh one can buy a Hyundai Santa Fe which is a capable SUV but its brand perception at the end of the day. Would one spend 30 lakh plus on a Hyundai or Nissan!

The only thing one can buy in the 40-50 lakh price segment is a used Landcruiser 200.

You have forgotten the Volvo XC60, by far the best looking SUV in that segment.

[GTO]

Great thread, Sheel! A predicament indeed. Couple of thoughts:

- This is precisely the reason behind the Fortuner's success. It draws even those customers who have a 40 lakh budget, because there's no true SUV at that price. The Fortuner looks like a mini-Landcruiser to most people, has 7 seats and offers bullet-proof reliability. It's become the default choice in the segment.

- You've missed out one very worthy option : The Santa Fe, only thing going against it is the badge. I'd consider it as an upgrade for Fortuner owners too, as the Santa Fe offers F-A-R superior comfort / ride quality & feature list.

- I've said this before and will say it again: Skoda's upcoming 7-seater SUV has the potential to become a game-changer, much like the Superb 5 years back. Space, European build, features, turbo-diesel, DSG etc. It's going to give the overpriced Germans a run for their money.

Originally Posted by RavSam

Coming back to the topic I wonder why the launch of Jeep's Wrangler and Grand Cherokee has been delayed so much.

So true. The Grand Cherokee appears to be a worthy premium SUV.

Originally Posted by akshay1234

I think he means Landcruiser 200 and not the Prado

The LandCruiser - shockingly - is now a 1.5 crore SUV

[torquing_points]

Having driven a freelander, I'm surprised that it doesn't find even a mention here. Granted, it's a monocoque - but it's extremely rugged and very suitable for our waterlogged, potholed roads.

Although it does look dated now, but I suspect that the discovery sport will change that...

[46TheDoctor]

Nice topic!
I faced the same problem when i was into SUV market last year. There was fortuner, pajero sport, koleos, etc below 30L and q3, etc. in 35-50 L range. Now, i was willing to spend 40-50 but i expect a 3.0 L, preferable v6 Diesel in that price bracket which was not available from even a single brand. 3.0 diesels are above 60 these days. I don't wish to spend 40-60 big ones for just a 2.0 diesel which is also available in 15-20 L sedans. So, decided to settle for pajero sport at 29 L and save the rest for future upgrade. There really is a dearth of good SUV in 30-50 range.
I think Mitsubishi should be able to bring Montero 3.2 at 40 L if it goes for CKD route. I am sure it will find many takers; even i would have bought Montero AT over pajero sport anytime if priced at 40-45 L on road.

[fine69]

Originally Posted by PPS

For 34 lakh one can buy a Hyundai Santa Fe which is a capable SUV but its brand perception at the end of the day. Would one spend 30 lakh plus on a Hyundai or Nissan!

Spot on!

Remember that dialogue from the movie Rockstar - Image is everything!

Most of the folks buying from the German Trio don't really buy it because they make the best cars but because the image is important to them and such exclusivity is only offered by the Germans!

What business sense does it make for a manufacturer to launch a 40-50 lakh SUV when he knows that he can't offer the same exclusivity as the Germans.

I personally think that Skoda still enjoys a little exclusivity simply because they have atrocious prices for the spare parts, I can recall Fabia's spare prices, and people somewhat see Skoda as a brand higher above the likes of Hyundai, Nissan, Ford etc. because owning a Skoda means shelling out more than the other similar priced car (excluding Rapid maybe).

[srs_shetty87]

Not only the Land Cruiser, all Toyota products which are sold elsewhere in the world, are marked up by at least 30% in India.

Just look at the Toyota Corolla Altis, full option version, 20+ lacs on road (17.6 lac ex-showroom), the same in UAE costs around 12-13 lac not more.
5 lac more in India for what, for skimping a few features?

[Turbanator]

Completely agree with Sheel , there is ample market for SUV in 40-50 Lac segment , 20 - 25 % volume of Sedans from Germans can be easily targeted with a great product like Prado and they can price it around 50 Lac in CKD operations comfortably . If Germans can have CKD operations for low volume products it should not be difficult for Toyota either . In my opinion things move very slowly in Toyota and Local management unlike Maruti / Hyundai have very limited say or because of low projected volumes Toyota Japan is not interested in taking such proposals .

[nakul0888]

Yup, as of now there seems to be no true SUV in the 35-50 lakh range here in India. I believe this is a wide open opportunity for Lexus to leave a huge mark here. I mean VW and Skoda have already tarnished their image with their lousy A.S.S. The other Big German trio are unwilling to sell us other than cross overs at that price. People are not willing to pay 35-50 for a Nissan/Hyundai. So that just leaves us with Toyota/Lexus.

Does Lexus even have a model which could be realistically priced at 35-50 lakhs, if assembled here in India? I believe that new NX thingy would do the job.
Cmon Toyota, enough with the updates to the Liva and Etios. Bring in the heavy artillery.

Originally Posted by fine69

I personally think that Skoda still enjoys a little exclusivity simply because they have atrocious prices for the spare parts, I can recall Fabia's spare prices, and people somewhat see Skoda as a brand higher above the likes of Hyundai, Nissan, Ford etc. because owning a Skoda means shelling out more than the other similar priced car (excluding Rapid maybe).

Lol. yes it is indeed true. Here in India people do tend to believe that Skoda has better brand value than Nissan/Honda/Ford. They couldn't be more wrong though!

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by mroptimist

No it is still sold for e.g; in both USA and Middle East.

In UAE the top end costs AED 154,900 which is roughly 25 lakhs INR. If they bring it as a CKD around 40-45 lakhs it would definitely sell but only with a diesel heart I suppose.

The relevant links.

http://www.toyota.com/fjcruiser/#!/Welcome

Thanks.

I remember reading an article saying the FJ Cruiser would be discontinued this year. Possibly false information then. I find it a quirky but nice car, good to see its still selling.

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Not for nothing Fortuner is a roaring success. It has the awesome butch looks ( white colour ) along with that T badge. I agree with Sheel. When people are buying 50-60 lakh sedans why would they not buy SUVs. After all, India IS an SUV country.

The Fortuner is a roaring success because there is no competition. Things mentioned in bold is all it has.

My Friend the MLs and Q5s are selling almost as much as their sedan counterparts.

Originally Posted by GTO

The LandCruiser - shockingly - is now a 1.5 crore SUV

Absolutely nuts. Give me a GL63 or an RR Sport Supercharged instead. Or heck, maybe even an M3 and a Pajero

[D4D]

Originally Posted by Sheel

I do know quite a few people who wish to purchase a full blown SUV in the 40L-50L price bracket, want it to look like a 50L product (butch looking, big & bulky)

Toyota has the Prado and the Land cruiser 200. But they aren't even assembled locally and hence they turn out to be expensive.
They are imported as CBUs.

Equivalent prices of Toyota SUVs in RSA compared to India.

Warning: Prices will not be the same even when the vehicle in manufactured in India as localisation levels will be different. And these prices in ZAR are just indicated starting prices of these SUVs as given on the website: www.toyota.co.za. This indicated staring price will be for the base model(maybe w/o local taxes)
Conversion rate used: 1 ZAR=5.64 INR


Just a few examples:

Land cruiser 200: ZAR 1037700 which corresponds to INR 5850421.
Land Cruiser Prado: ZAR 667900 which corresponds to INR 3765535.
Land Cruiser 70 series: ZAR 532500 which corresponds to INR 3002167.

So these cars can be priced well in manufactured in India. But at the budget of INR 3000k and above, most Indians do look for brand Value and would go towards the Germans.

A special mention here must go to the Prado. This vehicle has immense potential, especially as the fortuner uses the same engine and a lot of part sharing can be done. Yes, rumours have indicated that the fortuner 3.0 AT with 4x4 is coming, so why not localise the Prado? Price it maybe at ~40 lakh INR ex-showroon

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Sheel - Was in a similar dilemma, before just settling for the X3. I guess Jeep, when launched will fill this void. Though hopefully it won't be the barebones Wrangler but the Grand Cherokee in this pricepoint.

There would be options when they would be launched, yes. But the way a Toyota/Honda/Ford and to some extent a Mitsubishi has presence, it will be difficult for a brand like Jeep to garner as much sales, though entirely depends on how aggressive they are. See, where Isuzu is.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

But that is what decides the products that are developed and launched.

If a consumer wishes, manufacturer has to dispose (Coming to it)

That is applicable to us enthusiasts and knowledgeable customers. How many?

It does, for most, which is why they sell.
Not a lot of people/customers would look at anything but a Euro/German brand after the INR 25.00 lac bracket.

Again, how many?

Many, believe me. And they are not present on internet.

Let me give you a small sample size of my place. pgsagar's Vizag is a much bigger place than mine. The most costly sedan here is One Superb, One Octavia TSI Elegance and SUV's..? Only one German, a ML-350 CDI, though there is one LC-200 and a Land Rover Discovery HSE. And then there is a huge gap to the Fortuner (and there are plenty of it, in my circle, either someone has just bought one or is waiting for it) You think people are not ready to buy one? They are not ready to buy those grown up hatch inspired SUV's.

Let us take your example. Why did you buy a Pajero Sport? You could have got yourself a Q3 or a X1. I could have waited for the Duster AWD, but have booked a 4WD Scorpio instead.

The point is, there is a market and it does not exist only in metros. If possible, it would be great to learn (for all of us) as to the percentage of Fortuners sold in metros vs the other towns. And still, the Land Cruiser sells despite some tough competition & with a Toyota badge. There are pretty good reasons for it.

Originally Posted by ACM

So above 50L German is the way to go. .

If they are as reliable as Toyota.

Brings me, Lexus has a huge untapped market for it in India.

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Many consider German SUVs to be be grown hatchbacks. I have seen some rich guys in my town who can afford to buy even a 5 crore car but they happily drive around in Fortuners.

Precisely the same here. Fed up because of no alternatives & splitting hair on it, my friends who are in beverage business ordered 9 Fortuners for themselves. My cousin who is upgrading from the Yeti too doesn't want these small SUV's. We have to evaluate between the Freelander-2, ML-250, though Freelander makes sense, but we would have been happy with a Montero or something.

When I spoke to one such guy he says German SUVs do not appeal to him at all. Sedans, yes. But not SUVs. Forget him Even I feel there is nothing beyond Fortuner, not even LC, which can match the looks of a Fortuner. Mind you, I am only referring to butch looks ( reason most people buy SUVs for ) and not performance, off-roadability handling, dynamics etc. etc. Most laymen do not care a hoot about such things. Not for nothing Fortuner is a roaring success. It has the awesome butch looks ( white colour ) along with that T badge. I agree with Sheel.

Completely agree & replicate your thoughts. There are people with that kind of money almost everywhere. And they don't have a choice.

When people are buying 50-60 lakh sedans why would they not buy SUVs. After all, India IS an SUV country.

And how many of those 50-60lakh sedans see the world outside their airport runs?
India is a country of villages & villages = SUV's.

Originally Posted by GTO

Great thread, Sheel! A predicament indeed. Couple of thoughts:

Currently facing one & and a lot of other guys, who had to settle for a Fortuner/Pajero Sport.

- You've missed out one very worthy option : The Santa Fe, only thing going against it is the badge. I'd consider it as an upgrade for Fortuner owners too, as the Santa Fe offers F-A-R superior comfort / ride quality & feature list.

From the Official Review (haven't seen it yet) It simply doesn't have the size nor the looks. And read Guderian's comments again. Those consumers are neither looking for comfort nor features (wrt to looks/size) Even its front bumper had scraped at few places while parking it and you think it will go to places where something like a Quanto scrapes? No.

- I've said this before and will say it again: Skoda's upcoming 7-seater SUV has the potential to become a game-changer, much like the Superb 5 years back. Space, European build, features, turbo-diesel, DSG etc. It's going to give the overpriced Germans a run for their money.

We have a thread about Skoda curtailing its operation in India and yes, after taking my phone number (when the Yeti had a small shunt) the Skoda guys are yet to revert. So...that explains it.

Some one owns a Freelander in your house, how is it performing?

Originally Posted by torquing_points

Having driven a freelander, I'm surprised that it doesn't find even a mention here. Granted, it's a monocoque - but it's extremely rugged and very suitable for our waterlogged, potholed roads.

Although it does look dated now, but I suspect that the discovery sport will change that...

That is just one contender. But is it as reliable as a Japanese?

[KrishD]

Originally Posted by torquing_points

Having driven a freelander, I'm surprised that it doesn't find even a mention here. Granted, it's a monocoque - but it's extremely rugged and very suitable for our waterlogged, potholed roads.

Although it does look dated now, but I suspect that the discovery sport will change that...

Yup. I completely agree. The Discovery Sport looks awesome, with its Evoque-ish design. And with LR credentials, it should tick a lot of boxes which the German crossover SUV's dont. It claims a water wading depth of 600 mm! I was also surprised it didnt get too many mentions. The only thing that probably goes against it is sheer size.

Here's a video for those interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmeA3edOMPc

Also what about the Volvo XC 60?