[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by drive_factor

No you read that WRONG. Please read my previous post again. Your wrong interpretation is instigating trolls as seen just above.

Trolls apart, you said existing Storme will continue to sell. Implying the new one will not replace it. And no news of Dicor. So in essence they *could* continue to sell 3. Now it makes sense or not is a completely different thing.

Please clarify this bit - the new Storme will replace the current Storme or not.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Trolls apart, you said existing Storme will continue to sell. Implying the new one will not replace it. And no news of Dicor. So in essence they *could* continue to sell 3. Now it makes sense or not is a completely different thing.

Please clarify this bit - the new Storme will replace the current Storme or not.

you won't get that answer, even if an insider is your family member. The reason is simple. The Engineering guys are told to build something. How will it sell, and what will sell along with it is marketing's prerogative . A lot of decisions are taken very close to launch.

Since DICOR sales are actually not too huge, Tata may consolidate and come up with just one model, i.e. the new storme. This will be the Storme replacement.

Its not unusual for a model to be phased out 3 years after launch.
But then, its all speculation.

Based on insider info, the things which are sure


1. Yes, a 400NM storme is being tested. Infact it was being tested from quite some time
2. 17" storme was tested. Storme original plan was 17". Last minute to keep DICOR and Storme common tire pool(better discount from Tire MFRs), instead of 235/65R17 235/70R16 was retained. This was not so good for handling, but from a ride quality viewpoint, taller sidewalls help. Decision was taken because this is the most common tire. Now with 17" Scorpio, 235/65R17 will become very common in the aftermarket. So Tata may bid tata to 16 inchers
3. infotainment : Finally, somewhere someone has realized that people who shell out 12 lakhs expect gizmos. Expect that in the new storme

These three things are certainly being tested. What comes out as the final vehicle is marketing's prerogative completely. For example there exists a 180bhp 3.0L DICOR engine. But you don't see it in any vehicle, do you?

[himanshugoswami]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

. For example there exists a 180bhp 3.0L DICOR engine. But you don't see it in any vehicle, do you?

that engine is currently pumping out 200+ BHP and 460 NM of Torque on the ERC test mules!!!!!.....hopefully one day the mango people will get to experience that motor!

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

that engine is currently pumping out 200+ BHP and 460 NM of Torque on the ERC test mules!!!!!.....hopefully one day the mango people will get to experience that motor!

You know I secretly hope. that one day Tata will launch an all new SUV at 17.99 lakhs ex showroom.

It will be the biggest SUV in town, with AWD, diff locks, traction control and EBD and the works. It will weight 2500kgs, cock a snook at fuel efficiency, and be powered by a 200bhp+ 3.0 liter engine. It will have proper 7 front facing seats and all the safety features. This will be the vehicle which will be worthy competitor to the Fortuner and everything south of 40L. This will be our "Land rover".

But I am dreaming. All Tata will do is waste paper giving silly booklets in the morning paper telling how many horizons it will conquer next, and the competition will run rings around them, and they will continue selling 900/units a month

[ptushar]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

It will be the biggest SUV in town, with AWD, diff locks, traction control and EBD and the works. It will weight 2500kgs, cock a snook at fuel efficiency, and be powered by a 200bhp+ 3.0 liter engine. It will have proper 7 front facing seats and all the safety features. This will be the vehicle which will be worthy competitor to the Fortuner and everything south of 40L. This will be our "Land rover".

The only way that is going to happen is if they start a new company and not have the "Tata" tag associated with it. And I am not kidding; I really mean that. Maybe market this through their Land Rover brand. Built in a new factory and marketed under the Land Rover brand. Not sure how they can do that; where there is a will there is a way. Maybe start a new company with a new brand name altogether. Have a separate marketing strategy and not sell in the same Tata showrooms. Build exclusivity around the buying experience.

Somehow I feel that the "Tata" brand has taken a beating in the Indian Auto market. While it is not impossible to build back brand value, it is surely an uphill task. But the quickest route is to start a new brand; akin to what Toyota did with the Lexus.

I am certain that within TML and Land Rover together, Tata have all the required engineering expertise to make a product like this.

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by ptushar

I am certain that within TML and Land Rover together, Tata have all the required engineering expertise to make a product like this.

Yes they should re-brand. Probably spin off the Tata brand into 2 groups. A new brand for sedans and hatchbacks and a separate brand for SUVs. And for SUVs they can do something like what MB did with Bharat Benz. Something like 'Road Rover' from Land Rover.

[farhadtarapore]

Originally Posted by one-77

What I'd like to see in the Storme facelift:

- An "angry" grill, unlike the current "smiling" one with better-styled headlamps.
- Hidden tailgate hinges
- More premium rear wiper
- Front facing 3rd tow seats
- Proper center console
- Better alloys

... and the Storme might still give some competition to the XUV.

and improve the quality (of plastics, rubber, etc.) in general and the after sales service.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

You know I secretly hope. that one day Tata will launch an all new SUV at 17.99 lakhs ex showroom.

It will be the biggest SUV in town, with AWD, diff locks, traction control and EBD and the works. It will weight 2500kgs, cock a snook at fuel efficiency, and be powered by a 200bhp+ 3.0 liter engine. It will have proper 7 front facing seats and all the safety features. This will be the vehicle which will be worthy competitor to the Fortuner and everything south of 40L. This will be our "Land rover".

But I am dreaming. All Tata will do is waste paper giving silly booklets in the morning paper telling how many horizons it will conquer next, and the competition will run rings around them, and they will continue selling 900/units a month

...It feels as if I wasn't capable enough to find words for my thoughts and you used some telepathic powers to leech these thoughts!!!

How true indeed. A proper all-encompassing car, without silly mistakes and slip-ups. The one thing that will easily turn TML around for the good. Much more than the Zest.

[smsrini]

My rendering of a mid life make over for the Safari..

There is no reason why they cant reskin the tailgate to make it look more modern with a bit of wrap around effect. combine it with the blacked out pillars, and better grille, it will look a killer!

could not find a similar blueprint / line drawing for the storme, so used the Dicor drawing...

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

For example there exists a 180bhp 3.0L DICOR engine. But you don't see it in any vehicle, do you?

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

that engine is currently pumping out 200+ BHP and 460 NM of Torque on the ERC test mules!!!!!.....hopefully one day the mango people will get to experience that motor!

Please provide more details. When it was unveiled, the specs of new 3.0L Dicor read 138 HP and it was meant to be used in the Ultra CV range.

[Black_Beast]

I have also heard from insider, which goes similar.
~Feb'15 Bolt
~Mar/Apr'15 Nano
~May'15 updated Storme.

Looks like we have to sit through these interim launches.

[sadnabrina]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

You know I secretly hope. that one day Tata will launch an all new SUV at 17.99 lakhs ex showroom.

It will be the biggest SUV in town, with AWD, diff locks, traction control and EBD and the works. It will weight 2500kgs, cock a snook at fuel efficiency, and be powered by a 200bhp+ 3.0 liter engine. It will have proper 7 front facing seats and all the safety features. This will be the vehicle which will be worthy competitor to the Fortuner and everything south of 40L. This will be our "Land rover".

But I am dreaming. All Tata will do is waste paper giving silly booklets in the morning paper telling how many horizons it will conquer next, and the competition will run rings around them, and they will continue selling 900/units a month

Strange. I have been thinking the same since the last few days and was pleasantly surprised when I saw your post and some of the subsequent responses. Yes we have several potential buyers right here at TBHP.

Why can't Tata come up with such a product? I guess they tried a bit (the first small step possibly) with Aria but we all know how (un)successful it was/is.
Do we lack the technology? No way. They can tap the JLR for any missing bit of tech.
Then what is stopping them? May be the market is not quite ready for such a product. 17.99L would mean a OTR price of around 20L. Tata finds it difficult to sell 1000 units of Safari+Storme a month. Not sure how many 4X4 gets sold. How many 20L Tata's will India buy? Will it make business sense for them to come up with something like this?

What no harm in dreaming. Let's dream!

Mod Note : Please avoid typing with excessive dots.........like................this.

Thanks

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

you won't get that answer, even if an insider is your family member.

I wasn't asking about what TATA will do or will not do. I was just trying to comprehend what the gentleman quoted meant in his post.

Since DICOR sales are actually not too huge, Tata may consolidate and come up with just one model, i.e. the new storme. This will be the Storme replacement.

That's the logical thing to do. But then, they will have just 1 model against the onslaught of Scorpio+XUV.

When they launched Storme, I guess they retained the Dicor to compete against the Scorpio and thus positioned Storme close to XUV.

[ACM]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

When they launched Storme, I guess they retained the Dicor to compete against the Scorpio and thus positioned Storme close to XUV.

Was supposed to be Aria vs XUV and it got out priced and lost out leaving Storme to fight both a lower and higher class namely Scorpio and XUV and again lose to both.

Positioning and pricing disasters.

[drive_factor]

I just witnessed, though indirectly, the infamous Tata buying experience.

A relative sought my opinion on replacement for his Santa Fe and I strongly recommended to check out the Storme.

Our man contacted the TATA call centre who promised that the local sales person will call ASAP. When the said call didn't come even after a week, my relative rang up the local mobile number that was provided by the call centre. He called them thrice and each time the sales guy said he is busy. Both of them finally connected to each other but the matter was soon vitiated as the sales guy quoted Rs 13.7 lacs for the VX 4x2 while the TML suggested price is Rs. 12.52 lacs ! I myself spoke to the said sales guys and felt astonished how the local dealer could appoint an unresponsive dimwit to sell their flagship product.

I could have escalated this to the top guys but my relative was now disgusted and decided not to pursue any further. He was already dreaming of owning the Storme and this left him bitter.

A couple of days ago he called Mahindra and within 2 hours they closed a deal for W8 XUV 500. The delivery is due tomorrow. A very smart RM has been assigned and at the end of the day he felt like a king. The entire process till now has been very pleasant and at no point any strings needed to be pulled.

It pains to see the excellent work of the Tata engineering and plant level guys being destroyed by the Sales network. They just don't seem motivated to sell their cars. The only solution I see a drastic shakedown of their sales network else the PV division is going belly up soon.

PS:
There is a chatter of a Jan '15 soft launching of a facelifted version without the engine upgrade. But at the same time they have a big inventory of current version Stormes thus interesting times are ahead.