[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by binish

Can someone please guide me with these two doubts.
1) I have a car taken from Nagercoil RTO (TamilNadu). Is it possible to apply for NOC from chennai RTO (As all my relatives are in chennai now)
2) Then most importantly, is there any one here who has received the refund from govt? If I convert from TN to KA registration, can I get my tax refund from TN or I will have to get it from KA once I move back to TN? How difficult is it to get the refund and will it require some political influence to get the same?
Please guide.

1) You will have to approach the TN74 RTO. If you have enough justification then you can try in Chennai and most probably they will send the request to TN74 through post. OR they will ask you to approach TN74 directly.

2) After moving from TN to KA, you will have to do the KA registration and then apply for refund in TN. Not sure if any in team bhp has received the refund.

[audioholic]

A lot of people who are considering this to be an unfair practice by the Karnataka RTO aren't even speaking about the not so easy way to get a road tax refund from their own states when they move out of it. Now since the RTO are cracking down heavily on cars, they get the bad image.

If you read my earlier posts, I haven't supported the RTO anywhere or now. The point I would like to make is, if you are moving to Bangalore, you should first bash up the refund process in the state of origin, before complaining about having been made to pay up rax here. Also regarding tourists I think the RTO are considerate enough to differentiate between tourists and non tourists. You can even show the luggage stacked up in the car. Had happened to us in Ooty a few years back. The TN police stopped us and asked for papers claiming that we have been residing there without changing the regn number. We had to show a boot full of luggage and after that it so happened that the insurance paper was missing. We had to get that faxed from Bangalore and that wasted more than two hours of our time.

Hence every RTO is equally greedy to milk taxes but because of the fact that there are a large number of out of state cars here, they want to crack it down.

Suppose I move to a different state and face this, I would promptly pay up the taxes if I am really not a tourist. If I am a tourist or staying there for a short term, I think there would be enough proof of the same.

[ajaypjayaraj]

If they are considerate enough to tourists and if there is no harassment faced by any tourists then its fine and there is nothing to discuss as far as tourists are concerned. But being a traveller, if I am stopped and harassed I'm definitely not gonna like these justifications to support their actions.
In Chennai even I had been stopped for this out-of-state-car issue, but there was no seizure of car or any such troubles.
It's just a state being transited or visited by tourists we are talking about here, not a country for God's sake!
Yeah I know each state has their law, heard that many times. But there is something missing in trying to enforce it this way.. What was it.. Oh yeah "sense".

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by audioholic

A lot of people who are considering this to be an unfair practice by the Karnataka RTO aren't even speaking about the not so easy way to get a road tax refund from their own states when they move out of it. Now since the RTO are cracking down heavily on cars, they get the bad image.

If you read my earlier posts, I haven't supported the RTO anywhere or now. The point I would like to make is, if you are moving to Bangalore, you should first bash up the refund process in the state of origin, before complaining about having been made to pay up rax here. Also regarding tourists I think the RTO are considerate enough to differentiate between tourists and non tourists. You can even show the luggage stacked up in the car. Had happened to us in Ooty a few years back. The TN police stopped us and asked for papers claiming that we have been residing there without changing the regn number. We had to show a boot full of luggage and after that it so happened that the insurance paper was missing. We had to get that faxed from Bangalore and that wasted more than two hours of our time.

Hence every RTO is equally greedy to milk taxes but because of the fact that there are a large number of out of state cars here, they want to crack it down.

Suppose I move to a different state and face this, I would promptly pay up the taxes if I am really not a tourist. If I am a tourist or staying there for a short term, I think there would be enough proof of the same.

Not to nitpick, but KA RTO is no better in terms of refunds. A friend moved from KA to MH. Paid up the tax in MH, got his new registration number and inspite of applying for a refund in KA, no luck even after >5 years!

Uniform tax across India would solve all such problem. But alas! if only our elected representatives were concerned about our well being!

[aseem]

I think this thread serves no purpose.... There are 2 sides to the story & we keep debating/arguing on the same points.

The locals in Bangalore feel that when people from other State's visit Bangalore to work there, they should pay the road tax. Sometimes there are strong views like pay the tax, as they take their jobs, use their infrastructure, etc. etc. In US they even run TV advertisements about how H1B visa workers are taking away local jobs, but thats for people outside their country. Here we are talking about ppl within India working in jobs that are mostly outsourced and not local (as in Indian opportunities) to begin with.

There are people from other states working in Delhi as well, and I am sure there are people here who would have similar views (I am not one of them), however the car registration doesn't figure in this argument as car registrations are not astronomically high to begin with, therefore no crackdown, or even this thought coming in anyones mind.

People from other states feel "since" there is practically "no refund" in your home state, why should they pay road tax on their old cars? That too at 95% of the value of the car with KA road tax being highest in India.

The solution that is most reasonable:

1. Increase the stay of the car before making it mandatory to register it to 11 months (as it was before). This would give people enough time. When you move to a new state there are a lot of expenses & car registration immediately shouldn't be one of it.

2. Make the process of refund of road tax in original state online & painless. As soon as you get a new number you should be able to claim refund from your original state.

3. Reduce KA road taxes to bring them on par with rest of the Country. This would make both local residents and people from outside the state happy & avoid any revenue leakage from those who are deliberately avoiding paying road tax.

4. Lastly we are all proud Indians & moving across states should be as easy as possible in both directions. Thats where our true strength lies.

Hope these are sane suggestions that we all can agree on & conclude this thread.

[sachinpk]

Originally Posted by asdon

CISF is part of Para-military and under Central Armed Police force not state police force, and they enjoy almost same benefits as army, and yes from the same canteen. No state police wala will be allowed there.

CISF etc. are part of what was earlier known as Central Para Military Forces (CPMF). You are correct, they are maintained by Central Govt. How ever their canteens are different from Armed Forces Cantees (known as CSD Canteens). CPMF may have canteens (with subsidised items) but may be only in their units. Where as Armed Forces have more canteens, which are available for them even when they retire. Their spouse and dependent kids also gets the benefit. Liquor permits are only for the solider/sailor/air man and are not transferable. In our town local CSD Canteen is managed by the local NCC unit. Retired defence personnel from a couple of disrict have got this CSD Canteen in their canteen passes.

A couple of State Police forces (Kerala is an example) have started Canteen facility for serving and retired police personnel. They get tax exemptions. These canteens are generally operated from the Armed Police camps spread across the state. How ever such canteens do not have the authority to issue liquor.

Originally Posted by binand

If "in law enforcement, people do get troubled" then what is the point of law enforcement? The purpose of law enforcement is to make sure people are not troubled.

To put it blindly. Police or any other law enforcement agency are a "neccessary evil". That means, these agencies may cause trouble but cannot be avoided. And it also means that their procedures which may inconvenience a few may be beneficial for the society at large. Some one pointed about DUI. In all most all cities police stop vehicles and check for drivers under DUI. Till today there is no device which can identify a drunk driver, without stopping the vehicle. But most of the people are okay with this. Why? The reason is that drunk drivers gets pulled out of the road, and the road becomes a bit more safer for the general society at large. A law enforcement agency has to have a visible presence and cannot work in a silent/discreet manner without "troubling" any one. Intelligence agencies may be able to work in that mode, but not the police & RTO.

And what do you mean they need to "invent a device"? It is already there - called a Database. What exactly prevents them from looking at the database at their disposal to see if a given vehicle has paid tax or not?

As I mentioned earlier using databases etc. is fine and dandy. But it requires huge sums to get it up and running. Every single check post would have to have additional staff to monitor all this. The process also would be complex- just like how trucks etc. have to stop at every RTO and Sales Tax check posts. Imagine every single private vehicle also in the same state. Where as the same result can be achieved by what the KA RTOs are doing. Random checks and random places. My target is to say collect tax worth Rs.1 crore. The database concept you said may say involve an investment of Rs.80 lakhs upfront and maintenance costs every month. Where as RTO check points costs not even Rs.2 lakhs per month. So which method is cost effective?

One is not a suspect, one is not convicted, but one still has to surrender to searches and seizure which do not have any sanction of the law?

If RTO is doing a search and seizure, and it is illegal how come no court has taken cognizance of it? And not lawyer has challenged them. RTO can really have a tough time in court if it is proven that they don't have powers to seize the vehicle. As I see it today with courts and lawyers not really bothered about this the RTO is playing the game by the rule book (with the rules in their favour).

[coolclouds]

Its fine if RTO can work with traffic police. Bangalore Traffic Police is having a large number of cameras installed all over city. In addition to this, police at every signal has a camera. Traffic police upload this data and use them to check earlier violations when you are stopped using Blackberry.

Similarly, authorities can instruct BTP to make a note of outstation cars using their resources. RTO may check for your presence through Blackberry and prove it easily.

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by aseem

I think this thread serves no purpose.... There are 2 sides to the story & we keep debating/arguing on the same points.

The locals in Bangalore feel that when people from other State's visit Bangalore to work there, they should pay the road tax. Sometimes there are strong views like pay the tax, as they take their jobs, use their infrastructure, etc. etc. In US they even run TV advertisements about how H1B visa workers are taking away local jobs, but thats for people outside their country. Here we are talking about ppl within India working in jobs that are mostly outsourced and not local (as in Indian opportunities) to begin with.

There are people from other states working in Delhi as well, and I am sure there are people here who would have similar views (I am not one of them), however the car registration doesn't figure in this argument as car registrations are not astronomically high to begin with, therefore no crackdown, or even this thought coming in anyones mind.

People from other states feel "since" there is practically "no refund" in your home state, why should they pay road tax on their old cars? That too at 95% of the value of the car with KA road tax being highest in India.

The solution that is most reasonable:

1. Increase the stay of the car before making it mandatory to register it to 11 months (as it was before). This would give people enough time. When you move to a new state there are a lot of expenses & car registration immediately shouldn't be one of it.

2. Make the process of refund of road tax in original state online & painless. As soon as you get a new number you should be able to claim refund from your original state.

3. Reduce KA road taxes to bring them on par with rest of the Country. This would make both local residents and people from outside the state happy & avoid any revenue leakage from those who are deliberately avoiding paying road tax.

4. Lastly we are all proud Indians & moving across states should be as easy as possible in both directions. Thats where our true strength lies.

Hope these are sane suggestions that we all can agree on & conclude this thread.

@aseem, its cheap to make points about locals vs others when it does not require to do so.

The govt wanted to mobilize money and they came with this ill-conceived rule. What are you blaming local people for? Whatever the rates of taxes are, its for the entire state, not Bengaluru, not for outsiders.

This thread is an example of what happens when discussions happen for too long and people have to come up with something new to post.

[dass]

I find it amusing and at time funny that people who are made to pay road tax for out of state cars here, want the same treatment in their home cities for non state cars. Which, in reality is what is actually happening here.

Do i like that non KA cars are made to pay up such huge taxes?? I don't know.
Why? because if they have been here for more than a year, they should have paid for it any which ways, If they have been here less than that then they are getting the benefit of paying lesser for the car in other states compared to what people here paid for the same car.
Is it justified? it is the government which framed the rules, how many of these migrant population actually votes? So, be 'in' the government to talk 'about' the government.
Who am I? I am a common man, who voted for change and waiting for a change.

In short, instead of 'Bashing' up the people for their thoughts, either form a group and file a PIL. If there is no time and interest in doing it, then follow the rule of the land.

Request to Mods: I see an increasing trend of locals being blamed/thought of as not understanding within this thread. In the spirit of the game, this is completely unwarranted and begs to think, what should be discussed here? All I see in this thread is people venting out their ire at being made to pay taxes, should we not just check to see how many people have been in the state for over a year?

I am not a kannadiga, but have been in Bangalore for long enough to see how this place has transformed itself and the lives of people who have been here. Request people to refrain from making generic statements about revenge,calliousness and other such words which I definitely consider derogatory.

Cheers!!

[aseem]

Originally Posted by srishiva

@aseem, its cheap to make points about locals vs others when it does not require to do so.

The govt wanted to mobilize money and they came with this ill-conceived rule. What are you blaming local people for? Whatever the rates of taxes are, its for the entire state, not Bengaluru, not for outsiders.

Well please note I am not blaming anyone. Rather I am just stating what has been written on this thread. I have just summarised what's written and that's that. I don't want to participate in his thread as things get misunderstood quite easily as ppl are quite touchy.

As for me personally I feel that there is always a solution to all man made problems.

[finneyp]

I guess it is time to lock this thread, we are debating on the same points again & again!

Agree with Dass on his post above!
When I bought a new car recently here in Blore, I paid Rs 1.5 lakhs as Road tax :( whereas in another southern state, Road tax for the same model was only Rs. 87,000!
I felt I was fleeced by the RTO here! But, can you do anything about it? No, this is the rule of the land & I have no option but pay it up!
This could be the primary reason lot of folks buy cars outside KA and bring it here!
However, there could be exception cases where some people are on transferable jobs, or staying in Hosur and commuting to Blore, some provision should be made for such genuine cases!

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by aseem

Well please note I am not blaming anyone. Rather I am just stating what has been written on this thread. I have just summarised what's written and that's that. I don't want to participate in his thread as things get misunderstood quite easily as ppl are quite touchy.

As for me personally I feel that there is always a solution to all man made problems.

Sorry if I caused grief. Beauty of TBHP is that we dont get into un-necessary rhetoric and that keeps this forum very clean.

[ajmat]

Okay, I think it looks like we are going in circles. Concluding from this thread

1: If there is a particular law, it needs to be followed
2: A proper, quick and assured refund process must be in place to support this
3: Some redress needs to be considered for those doing short term projects as also those who live in another state and commute
4: Instead of seizing cars, an initial written warning with an intent to seize if compliance is not met.
5: If there has been non compliance, an option to pay the fine and remove the car from the state.
6: Ideally, a centralised tax and registration system should be in place.

[Latheesh]

Even after massive drive by RTO I see more and more out of state vehicles here and same bad/worst roads!

[Desi Dybuk]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Even after massive drive by RTO I see more and more out of state vehicles here and same bad/worst roads!

Er, buddy, did you expect that the road tax to go to fixing up of our 'roads'? They'll be used to launch few more unproductive 'Bhagya' schemes.

We should have a system like in US where taxes collected from fuels, sale of vehicles etc are by law mandated to be used in the upkeep of the transportation infrastructure. In India though, these taxes go to the general funds and the politicians dip into the kitty to fund unproductive 'schemes' or line their pockets.