[bravo6]

Originally Posted by sachinpk

Say I bring in my KL vehicle through Attibele checkpost. The number is noted down. And now I use say the TVS check post (a small one) to make my exit. How can I be trapped?

The entry date/time has to be stored in a central database. Whilst you are exiting, they can look up when your last entry was, and it can flag you if you are in violation.

Smaller border crossings can use their PDA instead of a dedicated PC for this purpose.

There is some thing known as Central List, State List and Concurrent List...

Ah yes. Thanks for the Civics refresher

They really can do that. Infact if more states do these things, more people would get upset and cases would get filed. Right now only KA does it and the impact is felt mostly on the IT crowd of Bangalore.

That's exactly what I'm afraid of. Hope the new MVA will address such issues to make India feel more like one country.

OT: Read up on that Shan Bano case. No matter what our Constitution claims, it's clear we are not a secular nation and all citizens are not equal.

Originally Posted by asdon

I have seen his brother and his friends from defence getting the toll exhemption all the time and all of them are retired from services and working for big time corporates..

To your post, they get the benefits well after retirments, the rationed food items, discounted cars from canteen are to list a few.

Personally, I feel they have earned it. Why be so averse to those that fight for us when you dare no question those you elected, those who spend your money, and those who ask for more of your money?

[Magemegento]

Originally Posted by bejoy

They need the invoice to calculate the tax. They usually accept invoice copy of similar car of the same model and year. So you can post the car model/year here, maybe someone could help in getting the same.

I've lost my Invoice for my WagonR Lxi bought in March 2005 in Delhi. (Bharat Stage III) Anyone can help me with an invoice copy will surely get a 'Thanks' from me.

And amongst all the different thoughts going around this thread, I'd like to vent out what goes on in my head-

1) That idea of freedom of movement: Though a valid freedom (which comes with duties (Civics :P)) might not help the cause of the PIL.

2) The idea of taxing again for an item purchased once though is stupid. I mean Income tax is central- Fine. Some taxes are at state's discretion- Fine! But then why pay again for the same thing- That is Illogical! I mean I can buy 5 litres of vegetable oil taxed differently in my so called 'home' state (where it will be marked as MRP Rs90 in DEL Rs 91 in Raj,Har,Pun, Rs 9X in ROI or whatever) and come to Bangalore where god-forbid taxes on the vegetable-oil are higher. Will the Revenue Deptt come knocking on my doors to pay the tax of vegetable oil since I'm clearly using it in Bangalore and they have given me subsidised LPG to cook my meals?
You can give a logic that I'm using KA roads and I should pay road tax here and oh my god you're such an uneducated guy not understanding this simple logic, but the point is I have paid the tax that was required when I bought the damned car! I paid excise (to the central Govt though the Aluminium in my car would have come from XYZ state), I paid ST and whatever cess was then. When my vehicle is in KA it obviously isn't using TN or KL roads so should I do this dancing around RTOs every time my job requires me to move?

I know Federal structure too, and this anomaly(I think), like a few others will go away with time as India ages and some sane people raise the right issues at the right forums.

Point being that the revenue from road tax goes to the state govt. is OK in principle but that is what has prompted the evil minds that be in the Govt machinery here to raise it to around 15% when it's like 5-6% in most other places in India. IMO, the solution to this is that the CMV Act should give a direction on the % of road tax that the states can charge that will make the system more self-regulatory (and also the increase car sales in KA by virtue of us guys not getting our cars from our so called 'home' states)

[rejoycjohn]

Originally Posted by sachinpk

T
How ever "freedom of movement" does not allow you to violate the rules and laws of the land. For example, I cannot just board a train to my home town and say that I would NOT take a ticket as freedom of movement is my right. In that case soon the freedom would end inside a police lock up.

Not the best analogy, is it?

Im really not sure if the road tax that an individual pay when he buys a car is just to use the roads in that particular state. If yes then for people who travel frequently to different states should be given the option of taking a national permit ( like the taxi vehicles ) along with the road tax at the state of registration.

Yes I know that is rule of the land. But its time to change it now. People reside in different states for work, not because they like it , but that's how it is. The government was able to implement yearly taxes for central govt employees and for army professionals before and now it should be made across all professions.

Honestly speaking, paying the life time state tax in every state that an individual stays is just plain ridiculous in this current era! I know people who have resided in Kerala for 3 years, KA for 2 years and then in MH for another 4 years and finally coming back to KL.
If every state gets as ethical as KA RTO then one would end up paying more than the cost of his car to the government.

And I completely support the motive of KA RTO behind just taking money but not even bothered to ask for NOC / Original documents while paying the LTT.
Its very simple, you pay the money to KA RTO, and everything is just alright.
One can even think of someone robbing a car from a near by state , drive it to Bangalore, pay the LTT and bingo you have the car just by paying LTT.

Just see the way they have factored in the age of the car and the LTT. The value of the car becomes 50% after 3 years but the tax that one should pay in Karnataka is 80 %. Now please don't ask me if I will sell my car for 50% of the invoice in 3 years. And according to KA rto one should pay 25% tax even for a 15 year old car.

http://dpal.kar.nic.in/pdf_files/35%...1957%20(E).pdf

With all due respect to those here in TBhp who supports this drive, if tomorrow you have to take up a job in another state due to some personal or professional reasons you would probably understand the justification of why this rule is ridiculous!

An after thought :- May be we should all get so rich that we dont care about paying a couple of lakhs as LTT in different states across our country.

Originally Posted by asdon

I have few Bangaloreans who support free movement of vehicles from neighboring districts of another state, more when the residing state's capital is a border city, we are looking at legal options now, will anyone from this 20+ population be interested in joining hands?

I have a fear that if the same trend is taken up by other state RTOs then I am going to be in trouble soon as I spend almost 70% of my drive on highways and those are not always in Karnataka.

I am definitely with you Asdon, let me know how can I contribute.

Originally Posted by naveenroy

Err, and why shouldn't the government tax them? Am I missing something here?

They have a case, because every army professional is transferred from one location to another every 3 year. That is applicable to Class A government officers as well. Someone from that profession can throw more light!

@ To all those who have lived in USA, is it the same case across various states in US ? One need to pay 15 year tax whenever you move states?

[asdon]

Originally Posted by bravo6

Personally, I feel they have earned it. Why be so averse to those that fight for us when you dare no question those you elected, those who spend your money, and those who ask for more of your money?

No, I am not, I have complete respect for them and I also mentioned in my post that this is not about disrespecting them. Its about policy, you want to waive their tax waive it through out the country, I have no problem. And why the benefits to only ranked ones, do it for the one at santri level too.

And how do you know I don't question whom we elect? We are not allowed to discuss politics here else I would have given enough examples.

I think we are diverting from the original topic..

I feel the reduced time of 11 months to 30 days is wrong
People staying here for more than a year but not paying additional road tax is also wrong
RTO harrasing short term visitors is not wrong, its a crime.

Thats what I feel.

[Magemegento]

Originally Posted by asdon

I did not want to reveal the facts, but let me..

One of the RTO in Bangalore stays in the same floor in my apartment, and his brother a Retd. Captain who participated in Kargil war also stays on the same floor, and the fourth flat is empty..

Many of my discussion here goes to RTOs ear during our night walks, and I have seen his brother and his friends from defence getting the toll exhemption all the time and all of them are retired from services and working for big time corporates..

To your post, they get the benefits well after retirments, the rationed food items, discounted cars from canteen are to list a few.

Job perks bhai. just that you know that the Central govt funds the Army through the taxes is why it itches you and so many others. It's just a job perk! (my personal opinion aside) It's just like you getting a discount in some restaurant coz you're an employee of XYZ company. Just coz it is the dammed sarkar, you can question is all you want, but then the Govt employs people and it has the right as an employer to give all these perks.


Lets discuss the bigger issue here, I'd like to register for one of the upward Arrow marked Reg nos. like those Army trucks. Do hell with state registrations, I belong to the sky.

[sachinpk]

Originally Posted by rejoycjohn

Im really not sure if the road tax that an individual pay when he buys a car is just to use the roads in that particular state.

Yes. And that is why states had the rights to collect the road tax. Off course this rule was in place when road traffic was not really great, and people owning vehicle spent most of their road time in the state itself. Earlier people paid tax every year (with a Tax Disc also placed on the windshield). During those days vehicles were less, they mainly remained within the state and so tax collection was easy.

If yes then for people who travel frequently to different states should be given the option of taking a national permit ( like the taxi vehicles ) along with the road tax at the state of registration.

Exactly!! Taxi vehicles were understood to cross state borders often so had such a scheme in place. So like "South India" permit, "National Permit" for taxis and trucks there can be a similar scheme for private vehicles as well. But there should be a "money sharing" formula which is acceptable to all states.

Yes I know that is rule of the land. But its time to change it now.

Agreed. But that cannot happen over night or without states getting ready to bring this change. But till then we have to understand that what Karnataka RTO is doing is right and legal.

One can even think of someone robbing a car from a near by state , drive it to Bangalore, pay the LTT and bingo you have the car just by paying LTT.

Paying Tax I don't think prove ownership. There are vehicle thiefs (on such gang got busted at Kumili, Kerala two weeks back) who even make fake RC Books and Permits. If they all can be caught and vehicles taken back, I guess that can be done in the above case as well.

[P4life]

Originally Posted by asdon

No, I am not, I have complete respect for them and I also mentioned in my post that this is not about disrespecting them. Its about policy, you want to waive their tax waive it through out the country, I have no problem. And why the benefits to only ranked ones, do it for the one at santri level too.

And how do you know I don't question whom we elect? We are not allowed to discuss politics here else I would have given enough examples.

I think we are diverting from the original topic..

I feel the reduced time of 11 months to 30 days is wrong
People staying here for more than a year but not paying additional road tax is also wrong
RTO harrasing short term visitors is not wrong, its a crime.

Thats what I feel.

IIRC, the tax payment method for Yellow board passenger vehicles were amended by KA Govt last year. Initially Taxis / Cabs/ Buses could take a one week permit for trips inside Karnataka. The current rules says that yellow boards will have to pay the tax for one year irrespective of whether the vehicle is going to be there for a week or less.
Now the above order along with the new drive means even Tourist are not welcomed either in their personal vehicle or in a taxi

[SILVERWOOD]

Originally Posted by asdon

Well.. you may disagree but all of us have seen private vehicles of defence personnel having stickers "ARMY"/"NAVY"/"AIRFORCE" and seen them flashing ID cards at toll plazas, and for sure those vehicles were purchased through Canteens and for personal use.

They are far better than these goons who vandalize toll booth when they are asked to pay up.

Originally Posted by rejoycjohn

With all due respect to those here in TBhp who supports this drive, if tomorrow you have to take up a job in another state due to some personal or professional reasons you would probably understand the justification of why this rule is ridiculous!

I have asked this question before, i dont think anyone asnwered.

Waseem.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by rejoycjohn

An after thought :- May be we should all get so rich that we dont care about paying a couple of lakhs as LTT in different states across our country.

Well, in our country, it's not so much about money as it is about mindset isn't it? Otherwise, why would we see all those PY registered luxury cars? If someone can afford a 50 lakh car, why does he/she go all the way to Pondicherry? Some people put up a price on their honesty and some will throw it away for a dime. So, really up to the individual.

[bravo6]

Originally Posted by P4life

IIRC, the tax payment method for Yellow board passenger vehicles were amended by KA Govt last year. Initially Taxis / Cabs/ Buses could take a one week permit for trips inside Karnataka. The current rules says that yellow boards will have to pay the tax for one year irrespective of whether the vehicle is going to be there for a week or less.
Now the above order along with the new drive means even Tourist are not welcomed either in their personal vehicle or in a taxi

It's things like this that will have a detrimental effect on our nation. First it was AP, now KA. Pretty soon all states may follow suit, and then extend it to private vehicles as well. Bye bye inter state motoring

[binand]

Originally Posted by asdon

Similar for para-military deployment as well as for CISF units(for CISF the industry unit pays, for CISF Quick Response Team deployed in Electronic City, ELCIA pay some crores to Central Govt).

CISF is a police force, coming under the home ministry (and not under the defense ministry).

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by rejoycjohn

With all due respect to those here in TBhp who supports this drive, if tomorrow you have to take up a job in another state due to some personal or professional reasons you would probably understand the justification of why this rule is ridiculous!

Originally Posted by SILVERWOOD

They are far better than these goons who vandalize toll booth when they are asked to pay up.

BTW:This incident is 3 days old.

I have asked this question before, i dont think anyone asnwered.

Waseem.

Well, we know how there are enough examples of migration into other "IT" Cities over the last few years. So, let us not even remain under a wrong impression that City A attracts migrants from other places. Only those who have worked in multiple cities would realize how cosmopolitan is the traffic when they drive to their workplaces.

Between Aug 2009 and Feb 2010, I was deputed to Pune and was working out of Hinjewadi. Though I used to visit my maternal home in Pune since childhood, it was only in the years of 2008-2010 that I got to know the other side of this so called "Tier-2 City" with aplenty of cars from KA, MP, UP and DL.

It was never the Transport Authority but the Traffic cops who caught me thrice right at the Wakad intersection on 3 occasions only looking at the KA number plates of my car.

I used to drive to Bangalore and Back then every alternate weekends and I had toll receipts, wheel alignment & Balancing bills, emission test certificate from Bangalore every time they asked me for "Tax paavti" from Maharashtra. They got convinced when I showed them the toll receipts from my last drive that I have moved only recently.

I wholeheartedly support what the KA RTO is doing and those having made Bangalore their home better pay the taxes. But I will not support for 2 reasons only:

• 30 Day Rule
• Not exempting even genuine folks from Hosur driving everyday (Enough cases now)

Now for heaven's sake, I expect folks here to please not politicize this by introducing regional flavor to it, "Your choice, you moved here, Go back where you came from, we welcome everyone with open arms" etc etc. Most of the Cities do and they are preffered IT destinations because this very reason (that both the firms as well as populace is welcomed and when cities compete, it also means they are welcoming everyone with open arms!)

As you both say, only if one relocates (or even moves for a temporary period) and goes through these tactful acts from the authorities, you will be able to share the feelings.

For those who think I am against paying taxes:

• Last year, we picked up a BHPian's Palio Multijet from Delhi. We drove it down to Bangalore and the first thing we did was paid up 55,000 INR as Road tax as we were sure the car will remain in Bangalore at least for the next 3 years.
  
• Another BHPian (ACS) realizing he has to cough up a huge amount for his SX4, gave back that car to his parents in KL, picked up a fully loaded Vento in Bangalore and registered in Bangalore

And those who think I am talking because I have moved between cities and hence opposing this methodology, let me assure you that I am born in the this very own state.

The 30 day rule is simply not done no matter how one wants to justify that.

Enough said!!

[binand]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

I wholeheartedly support what the KA RTO is doing and those having made Bangalore their home better pay the taxes. But I will not support for 2 reasons only:

• 30 Day Rule
• Not exempting even genuine folks from Hosur driving everyday (Enough cases now)

There is a third reason: the procedure that the RTO folks are following. From what I read, I find two things objectionable:

1. Seizing the vehicle. Maybe they have the power to do it (which in itself is a bad thing), but it is reprehensible to ask people to get out of their car and fend for themselves while the RTO took away their vehicle.

2. The stop-everyone-somebody-or-other-is-bound-to-be-non-compliant mentality. This treat everyone as guilty unless proven otherwise is a gross violation of civil liberties (such as it is, in India). The procedure that does not violate individual's dignity and put her through unnecessary hardship is for the RTO to conduct independent investigation to detect non-compliant vehicles, and then serving notices only to their owners. But that I guess sounds like work to them.

What if BBMP started doing the same? That is, walk into every flat or home and demand property tax payment proof. If proof cannot be provided, throw the occupants out and seal the dwelling unit.

Come to think of it, not exempting Hosur-based folks is not such a bad thing. How will you treat a Hosur resident who bought a second-hand vehicle from elsewhere in Tamil Nadu? Wouldn't you want the same privilege to someone driving in from beyond Hosur, say TN-24?

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by binand

Come to think of it, not exempting Hosur-based folks is not such a bad thing. How will you treat a Hosur resident who bought a second-hand vehicle from elsewhere in Tamil Nadu? Wouldn't you want the same privilege to someone driving in from beyond Hosur, say TN-24?

Agreed but the difference between stopping someone from Hosur and checking the credentials and asking him to pay up even when the person is only traveling everyday between Hosur and Bangalore.

Imagine folks from Bangalore asked to pay taxes for working in TVS or Ashok Leyland with their homes in BTM, Jayanagar driving a KA05 Registered car?

This Hosur-Bangalore-Hosur is a Bordering district subject to be dealt with in a totally different manner just like how Goa exempts Belgaum & Karwar vehicles from paying Entry taxes.

Or may be, let the Hosurians pay up KA taxes and working Bangalore and they can still be happy that no one will stop them in TN also asking for tax paid receipts for TN State? Doesn't work that way at all!

[asdon]

Originally Posted by binand

CISF is a police force, coming under the home ministry (and not under the defense ministry).

OT : CISF is part of Para-military and under Central Armed Police force not state police force, and they enjoy almost same benefits as army, and yes from the same canteen. No state police wala will be allowed there.