[Guna]

Originally Posted by pradkumar

Hi,

What I read in a review is that it automatically downshifts when you reduce speed in manual mode to prevent stalling, but does not upshift. Can somebody confirm this please?

Thanks,

Pradeep

In Manual it doesn't up-shift at the usual 'shift points' and probably it may upshift near redline.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

The AMT is excellent and very easy to drive

Is that all you have to say about the AMT? Half page review of the AMT and you covered it in once sentence : ).

Why is it excellent and how is it better than the A-star with the same engine?

[carwatcher]

We all know that ATs have that rubber-band effect and lag compared to MT. So the Automated Manual Transmission offers best of both worlds. As mentioned in the posts after mine too, even in Manual mode car downshifts as per feedback based on Tacho. Also the gearshifts are better than AT as in Manual mode after you upshift or downshift the gear stick comes back to its original position and you can switch to Auto or Manual on the fly. What more one can ask for? The only disadvantage I can see as compared to MT is that one can't downshift from 4 to 2 or 1 or vice versa for that matter, it has to be sequential.
Think from the perspective of Lady drivers, Senior citizen and people who hate city driving but were unable to buy an AT due to various reasons, if you ask them, all would shout excellent.
Also as I mentioned we also get to see the exact gear in which car is running along with in which mode, for e.g. 3 M means 3rd Gear in Manual mode while in A-Star and other ATs it shows only as D.
In case you missed, I mentioned that the lag in A-Star is slightly less than Celerio so its not that everything is better in Celerio as compared to A-Star.

Originally Posted by Mpower

Is that all you have to say about the AMT? Half page review of the AMT and you covered it in once sentence : ).
Why is it excellent and how is it better than the A-star with the same engine?

[volkman10]

I guess Celerio has hit the segment it is targeted for with Jan figures showing 2700+ dispatches to dealers. The trend can be confirmed in the Feb/March sales figures.

This is not surprising considering all manufactures in India is now/planning realeasing the AMT varaint.

Hats off to Maruti Suzuki in sensing the voice of customers and starting this trend and bringing a relevant technology to suit the needs ( FE+city traffic).

Cheers!

[romeomidhun]

I expect a further-simpler model where we don't have the "D" mode - which has only N, R and M mode. Cost can further be decreased, and all the complaints about jerk can be avoided!

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Hats off to Maruti Suzuki in sensing the voice of customers and starting this trend and bringing a relevant technology to suit the needs ( FE+city traffic).

Cheers!

The figures are for Celerio overall isint it? not the AMT version

[tj123]

VW Vento & Polo to go the Automated Manual Transmission Way, interesting read

http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/auto-n...ort-amt-84228/

[deetjohn]

Can anyone who drove the Celerio AT tell me whether the car will stay up on an incline if we let go off the brake in D? I don't see a hill hold but does the AMT give a moment for the driver to come back on gas or will it just roll backwards?

In a normal Automatic, you can make the car stay still by feathering the throttle. Will it be bad for AMT since there is no torque converter? Will it be like half clutching and bad for the clutch in the AMT?

Eagerly waiting for the official review to know more.

[shankar.balan]

I saw this car. I sat in it for a bit. I fiddled with it a bit.

However, owing to the crowds in the Showroom I did not want to wait for a TD.

From what I understood during my brief interaction with the vehicle, I realise that it is simply a nice little Automatic Transmisson vehicle, which has a simple "Gear Lever Operated Paddle Shift System".

In all other respects it will behave just like any AT vehicle.

Having not TD-ed it, I do not know about its "Hill-Hold" capability or any other gizmo. However, having driven other AT vehicles, including 2WDs and AWDs, I do know that not all of these AT vehicles have this unique Hill Hold Feature.

I think that the Celerio and indeed, any other vehicle that Maruti brings in, with this "AMT" feature, should and will do well in our increasingly choked, traffic laden cities. This will, I am sure, also be a big hit with the ladies.

The one grouse that I have against Maruti and indeed all other manufacturers, is their "perception" even now, in 2014, that "Safety Kit" is superfluous!

For example the VX Model of the Celerio does not have ABS and Airbags. The ZX I am told, has ABS but no Airbags.

Wonder why they can't make ABS and at least the two front airbags as "Standard" across at least the top two variants.

[carwatcher]

Rightly observed but I won't blame Maruti completely for that. Its already 14 long years since the arrival of new Millennium, 21st century blah blah blah but look where are we in terms of road safety, etc. 90% of population is still not comfortable with wearing helmet, seat-belts, etc. Still further our Govt. happily allows selling of multi-crore rupee cars after collecting crores of rupee as duty on such cars but how much safe environment it provides. We have full revolution in terms of highways, commercial vehicles, etc. But still at night not less than 50% of trucks run with no proper tail lights or any other safety reflectors, markers, etc. If you read various threads, the general opinion is that Highway and Night driving is becoming dangerous day by day. So we are going backwards actually. People often say 'Old times were better' while talking about almost any issue, it fits aptly in this case.
End of Rant.

Now coming to Maruti and all manufacturers in general. I have seen that almost all cars sold have top end models with ABS and Airbags, so blame them entirely is not correct. What Maruti don't want to do right now (wrt Celerio) is to make it a sales dud as they have already burnt their fingers with A-Star, so the pricing is the only criteria in our country that can make or break the product completely. I am pretty sure that the real 'fully loaded' AT variant in on its way albeit after some time. I also read on this thread that Maruti has not launched higher priced AT variant because the pricing will take it to Ritz territory. We have success stories of XUV, Duster and EcoSport on one hand and Jazz and Fiesta on other which can be attributed to only one factor, launch Pricing.
I would like to ask you that maximum how much are you ready to spend for Celerio AT with ABS and Airbags and whether that much could be paid by the general public for this particular car. I for once can't pay more than 4.5 lacs for an entry level hatchback, as soon as that psychological figure of 5 lac is crossed, I would start looking for other options, but hey that's me.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

The one grouse that I have against Maruti and indeed all other manufacturers, is their "perception" even now, in 2014, that "Safety Kit" is superfluous!

[srishiva]

Good that Maruti has started this AMT thing. Hopefully they will also start using the AMT on smaller diesel engines since nobody else it doing is for the moment.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

In all other respects it will behave just like any AT vehicle

This is the part I don't get. How is this (AMT) different from an AT and why is Maruti hailing it as something all new? Is this a marketing term? Even before the DSG was available on VW's Vento, the torque converter unit had tiptronic. The previous gen Honda City had the same tip tronic mode in the form of paddle shift units.

[torque!!]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

This is the part I don't get. How is this (AMT) different from an AT and why is Maruti hailing it as something all new? Is this a marketing term? Even before the DSG was available on VW's Vento, the torque converter unit had tiptronic. The previous gen Honda City had the same tip tronic mode in the form of paddle shift units.

You will have to read through this forum to understand the difference between AT and AMT. But I'll make an attempt to briefly explain the difference.

A real automatic, DSG included, has a torque converter. A torque converter is a clever little device that allows the engine to be decoupled from the transmission. This is exactly what a traditional clutch does. The difference is 1. You need to depress the clutch to decouple engine from transmission. When you engage the clutch, friction between clutch plates cause momentum from engine to be transferred to the transmission. 2. Pressing the brakes and stopping the vehicle from moving will not cause the clutch to be automatically depressed. Braking without depressing the clutch will stall the engine.

A torque converter on the other hand works by fluid coupling. When engine is rotating, it causes the transmission to rotate. When it hits resistance from the transmission (due to brakes) it allows the engine to keep spinning. Its a lot more complicated than that, but for now, this should suffice.

The biggest difference between AMT and Auto is really the torque converter unit rather than the gearbox itself. Well, that's not entirely true, but lets play along, shall we? In AMT, they have done away with the torque converter and used a normal clutch unit. However, instead of your leg operating the clutch, a smart gizmo does that for you.

Also, due to the difference in gearbox, there needs to be a way to change gears, depending on the RPM (and speed) you are at and the load the car is pulling. To achieve that, AMT again uses some smart gizmo to slot the gear lever in the right place instead of you doing it manually. Now, they have allowed you to do that on your own too using the shifter. The smart clutch box will figure out you need to change gears and will engage/disengage the clutch accordingly.

Triptronics also kind of behave in the same way but there is no gear lever that will move and engage the gear. Rather, the gear ratio on the planetary gearbox of an automatic will be selected based on inputs from triptronic.

The end result is the same, the way its done is very different. So, why use a torque converter instead of AMT? You need a smooth ride/ shifts with minimum lag right? That's what an automatic offers. IMHO AMT will be jerky and not pleasant to drive. I havent driven one, so I could be wrong. But I just do not see AMT ever achieving the same level of smoothness of operation as an auto. I also have reservations about premature clutch wear on an AMT. I guess, time will tell...

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

This is the part I don't get. How is this (AMT) different from an AT and why is Maruti hailing it as something all new? Is this a marketing term? Even before the DSG was available on VW's Vento, the torque converter unit had tiptronic. The previous gen Honda City had the same tip tronic mode in the form of paddle shift units.

I believe that the AMT performs the same function as Paddle Shifts do, but in the case of AMT, one uses the actual gear lever.

This is my limited understanding, having not actually driven the car.

Possibly, this is one of those nice marketing gimmicks, in that sense. However, it is certainly an useful feature.

In ref to the "All New" bit, I guess, it may be that this is a "first" in this segment of vehicles.

OT: I also saw some posters of a Swift RS - on checking with the Sales chaps, I was given to understand that this contains purely cosmetic changes and there is no difference to engine, suspension or wheels, tyres and indeed anything of substance.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

In ref to the "All New" bit, I guess, it may be that this is a "first" in this segment of vehicles.

In India this is 'New' but internationally the Volkswagen UP has it, dubbed the ASG, the semi-automatic gearbox.

Cheers!