[safari_lover]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I would call it uninformed ranting if Bolt was the first car tata made.
But they made many iterations of indica's, 4 iterations of the Safari, and many of the Sumo too.
In each iteration they have proved that the cars have a higher reliability issues than competition.

So just because they failed in the past, they WILL fail in the future too? By that logic a lot of organizations should never have succeeded. ISRO and their GSLV come to mind from the recent past.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

So I would like to do "informed criticism". Do let me know which past Tata vehicle I should pick for "informed views".

The Vista/Manza, Storme could be good starting points. But then, I don't have to tell you that. I know, from your posts and reviews, you are quite the well informed and that comment was surely not pointed at you

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Value for money should not come at the cost of reliability.
If Tata really things they have turned things around, then they should start offering 5 year warranties.
This is exactly what Hyundai had to do in the west to shake the image of "Manufacturer of pizza delivery junk" in the west.

When you are the underdog, you have to exceed the competition to come back in the race.

I agree. Tata should seriously consider this. The 5 year warranty will definitely show that they mean what they say. I believe that the Nano currently comes with 4 years of warranty they should at least extend this to their upcoming range.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Would you go to the restaurant which has served you cockroaches in the meal four times in a a row after it undergoes renovation and claims to have fixed the issues? Or would you wait for public opinion.
Or maybe an offer "If you find a cockroach, we will give you free meals for a week"

I will definitely wait and take the opinion from the people who've 'actually' dined at the restaurant after the renovation. And, if it's positive and I like the menu then why not?

Originally Posted by saket77

On the onset, let me please clarify that I will not rate the Bolt or the Zest, esp. on quality control issues until they come from the production lines meant for sale to people. Given the track record of Tata since Indica pre-production period, they will improve the tidbits for sure. In case they fail to fix the issues later, then they will and *should* draw flak & criticism. But not now, from me.

Waiting for the launch and cannot wait for the TBHP official review. Being a Tata, an all new car, the Revotron, potential to be the game changer...these are spices enough for a great and interesting story.

We are all waiting for that. The launch review will put a lot of questions to rest, one way or the other!

[Joe M]

Found the Zest in camouflage being tested on Outer Ring Road, Bangalore yesterday. Couldn't snap pics because I was riding alone. The small boot looks neatly integrated, even though it can't boast of a big design achievement.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by desdemona

Hi. Thanks for the reply.

I'd refer you to Autocar's recent review of the Aria. I'd also refer you to the Team-bhp review and ownership reviews of the Storme.

Let us just say that, very objectively: the Aria and Storme engine's more refined, the NVH is better, interior design and plastic quality is better, ride is better, as are equipment levels. And I am told the Storme's off-road abilities are superior to the Fortuner's. I've ridden in all four, and driven a couple. I believe the claim is fair. Consider how much more the Toyota-s cost, consider too that both the Innova and the Fortuner, essentially the same vehicle, are built on an ancient pickup truck chassis and architecture.

Your incredulity at my claim does suggest the degree to which our perceptions are influenced by, maybe even overwhelmed by image and brand power.

Anyway, I guess Tata do have a mighty tough task rebuilding their tarnished image.

Its not enough for a brand new Tata Storme or Aria to look good. The real test is the longevity of the vehicle. Maybe you should repeat your test ride in a 3 year old Tata vehicle and compare that to a 3 year old Toyota.

Also, since you agree that Toyota enjoys a much better public image than Tata's, you will also agree that the perception arises from past experience, which for Tata customers has not been positive.

I do however hope that the Tata's have changed and the Bolt and Zest are the new improved versions that you claim they are, however I would not be willing to bet on that so soon, I'm done being a guinea pig for companies which promise that they've changed.

[torquecurve]

My 4 year old Vista - 66K kms on the clock - driven hard (I slow down only for the largest potholes, speed-breakers) still is an amazing car. Almost as good as new. Drives effortlessly, feels plush (comfortable), almost does not rattle. Has an engine heat shield/ sound damper (on a petrol). And yes, I was among the first buyers for what is Tata's third generation car. So well - it has held up. So much so that a few friends are now proud owners of Tata Vistas and Manzas.
My point - the Bolt and Zest are going to be even better!

[kvish]

I happen to drive behind the bolt petrol (Guessing due to lack of exhaust smoke upon accelaration) test vehicle, and the car was very peppy indeed. In stop go traffic it was holding up very well. I cant confirm if it was the turbocharged petrol, but it is looking promising indeed!

The only issue is that the camouflaged frame looked too vista'ish.

[V12Doc]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Its not enough for a brand new Tata Storme or Aria to look good. The real test is the longevity of the vehicle. Maybe you should repeat your test ride in a 3 year old Tata vehicle and compare that to a 3 year old Toyota.

Also, since you agree that Toyota enjoys a much better public image than Tata's, you will also agree that the perception arises from past experience, which for Tata customers has not been positive.

I do however hope that the Tata's have changed and the Bolt and Zest are the new improved versions that you claim they are, however I would not be willing to bet on that so soon, I'm done being a guinea pig for companies which promise that they've changed.

I drive a Tata Safari and driven it to 1,10,000km and trust me the engine still sounds the same as the first day and roars like a dream. Still picks up quick and body is in a great shape. Ratlles expected from a car that has run that much never stopping for potholes or speedbreakers and frequent offroading. One of out best purchases ever. The paint still looks like new. We also have a fortuner driven the same way and it has started rattling too at 25,000 kilometers and there are squeaks and one particularly irritating from the steering. Then my Audi which has done around 22,000 km , the left rear suspension started squeaking at around 13k km which comes and goes. The ratlles and squeaks are for Indian Roads to blame. Otherwise All Tata vehicles are mechanically very sound and have almost zero trouble. Compare that to Mahindras that are owned by my relatives, the Scorpio has a bad clutch, horns went kaput for an XUV power steering failed and clutch wouldn't come back to normal position so stuck on road and for a Xylo brakes failed with 5 people on board. That's one heck of a reliability record if u ask me, never has the same happened to any of my cars and safari is my second Tata car and there are more in the family. Out of the Mahindras there are 5 Vehicles in the family and 4 have given trouble and 1 is just a month old so lets see if it passes on reliability test.

[discoverwild]

People who generally rant about Tata cars are people who have never owned one or normally been around them as taxis or part-time users. A few exceptions may be found. I have had most of the vehicles in their stable except the Aria and I have never been let down. This, I am talking of having personally driven over 3 lakh kms in them in 23 years. The highest issues I have had in my cars were in the Ikon 1.6 (multiple issues), followed by the Maruti 1000 (suspension) and the Santro (poor silencer).

[saket77]

Guys, please keep this space reserved for the Bolt & Zest. Let's not make this a thread 'Tata vs Rest of Tata' thing.

I have a feeling that Tata will deliver this time, at least product wise. if they don't, this well might be their last chance.

Thanks,
Saket

[aaggoswami]

I know this is going to be an OT post, but reading some previous posts I would like to chip in a few things :

1) Tata motors is trying hard to improve. And they still have got energy to innovate, atleast attempt to do so. Revtron ( or whatever its called ) is an attempt to provide TC small capacity petrol motor. Which reputed Japanese or Korean manufacturer tried this and launched such a product in India ?
Did Honda, the great innovator in technology, did that ? (I am aware they dont have a vast portfolio of petrol turbo motors internationally also, but then they did not have1.5 diesel also. Honda loved to work hard on diesel for India, not turbo petrol ? ). I would love to see Brio being crash tested by ENCAP.

Toyota, the masters of mass production, did that ? No, they are busy making money thanks to insane margin on Innova. Dont have staistics, but for something that old, all major tooling investment would have effectively depreciated. The panel gaps are increasing ( we have 2012 Innova at home and can confirm this ), engine is noisy from the word Go.
Let ENCAP crash test Etios and see the result. I am eagerly awaiting if any such test is being conducted by ENCAP.

Suzuki is having this tech in Japan since ages, did it launch such a product ?
Nissan, the way it outsourced the sales and distribution channel, IMO does not need a formidable mention here.

2) Tata Indica, when it came out in 1998, weighed in more than Cielo. One has to admit that most of all tata cars offer strong structures important for safety. There are many images available on net proving this point. Destiny will have its final say, but we cant stop attempting.

Recently had an opportunity to travel in Vista which was used as Cab. Were it not for the centrally placed speedo ( which is now resolved ), the cab was so good overall, that it felt Vista could be a nice personal car.
Vista made less noise than Etios ( petrol or diesel ), ride was better than what most Hyundai's offer under Rs. 12-13 lakh, and only Fiat/VW doors felt stronger and heavier.


3) Indica and Vista, both are very successful in Cab market, so is Innova. Getting success in Cab market in a nation like India is not easy, that too with relatively budget cars. Believe me, those two cars can take way more abuse than products of Japs and Koreans. Tata must have done something right. If Innova can earn respect, why not Indica/Vista ?

I now want my cab to be Vista when I am on official tours outside my city. The car, even after abuse, rides and feels better than what Santro/WAgon R/Accent, etc. do. Rear seat is really comfortable.

IMO, there might be issues, I dont refute that, but Tata does many things right. There is a lot of scope of improvement, but we have to appreciate what they have done and achieved and what they are planning to achieve. If I had to hit highway as a passenger, I would prefer Vista over any other small car. If Tata A.S & S. improves, my next car might be a Tata.
Problem with Tata is OC and A.S & S., but its not that they are pathetically engineered or their products are really bad.

It was pleasant to see Bolt and Zest, two cars which I would love to see dominate sales chart. For the recent launches of Storme, Bolt and Zest, they deserve a big praise.
Keep it up Tata. Atleast you dont have Indians=third world country mentality ( which many International players have ).

[rkg]

My vista diesel is one of the very first batch make.booked it within a week of launch in 2008. Till date completed 91k in 5.5 years. It has taken me to 11 states over 30000 km of highway drives ranging from 3 days at a time to 25 days this march when the car is at 82 km. It has never broke down on highway. My friend who has Toyota etios and highly derisive of tata was surprised to see the car sounded like his 3 year old etios. I have bought a Aria pure lx now. Dealers were willing to buy my vista for 2.5 lakh which is reasonably good for a 5.5 year old car. None of my vista electricals have failed till now.clutch lasted 82 k

[hothatchaway]

^^^as pointed out by Saket earlier, lets stick to the conversation on the Zest and the Bolt, am sure owner of all individual brands will have heart warming lores to relate on their respective drives

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by V12Doc

I drive a Tata Safari and driven it to 1,10,000km and trust me the engine still sounds the same as the first day and roars like a dream. Still picks up quick and body is in a great shape. Ratlles expected from a car that has run that much never stopping for potholes or speedbreakers and frequent offroading. One of out best purchases ever. The paint still looks like new. We also have a fortuner driven the same way and it has started rattling too at 25,000 kilometers and there are squeaks and one particularly irritating from the steering. Then my Audi which has done around 22,000 km , the left rear suspension started squeaking at around 13k km which comes and goes. The ratlles and squeaks are for Indian Roads to blame. Otherwise All Tata vehicles are mechanically very sound and have almost zero trouble. Compare that to Mahindras that are owned by my relatives, the Scorpio has a bad clutch, horns went kaput for an XUV power steering failed and clutch wouldn't come back to normal position so stuck on road and for a Xylo brakes failed with 5 people on board. That's one heck of a reliability record if u ask me, never has the same happened to any of my cars and safari is my second Tata car and there are more in the family. Out of the Mahindras there are 5 Vehicles in the family and 4 have given trouble and 1 is just a month old so lets see if it passes on reliability test.

I'm glad that you have had an excellent experience with your Tata vehicles. It does indeed inspire confidence when so many owners are so passionate about the manufacturer of their vehicles.

Lets hope the Tata's come out with a really good car in the Bolt and Zest models.

[srishiva]

Most manufacturers even if there are some niggles in their new models sort the issues within a year. Its not just TATA but also Mahindra who cant fix the issues even after the vehicles are on road for years.

That is really bad and which stops everyone from buying these vehicles which other wise seem value for money. Who wouldn't want to ride the Storme offroad and onroad? But its scary looking at maintenance and time spent in garage.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by srishiva

Most manufacturers even if there are some niggles in their new models sort the issues within a year. Its not just TATA but also Mahindra who cant fix the issues even after the vehicles are on road for years.

That is really bad and which stops everyone from buying these vehicles which other wise seem value for money. Who wouldn't want to ride the Storme offroad and onroad? But its scary looking at maintenance and time spent in garage.

Storme spending time in garage and maintenance? Those things were with 1 st gen Safari but with Storme? Am I missing here something? Can you point to me in that direction please? I mean any thread/post speaking about Storme woes, like we have in case of some premium brands.

[aniketi]

One thing is for sure that Tata's are improving as far as quality is concerned. Most of the Vista and Manza are trouble free from day one. Not many had complaints about it. All Tata cars are better than previous versions be it Indica, Sumo, Safari. I am sure that Bolt and Zest are going to be good products from day one. Let's wait and watch.