[ecosport]

Originally Posted by scorpion_blore

With the price rise, Ford has definitely lost a few potential customers. I just overheard three colleagues discussing about Ecosport price rise. All three own a hatch now and planning for their next upgrade. All are now planning to pick up the Amaze diesel top-end version over Ecosport.

Ecosport/Amaze/Swift DZire seemed to be the logical upgrade for someone owning a hatch and planning an upgrade. The OTR in Bangalore for ES 1.5 TDCi was 10.5L before. With the price rise it gets close to 11L. However the OTR for Amaze diesel top-end version is around 9.5L. All three seemed to be happy with the fact that they would be saving 1.5L by picking Amaze over ES, and the wait times are a lot lower compared to ES. Better mileage of Amaze compared to ES seemed to be an icing on the cake. They even started listing down the extra accessories that they might purchase with these 1.5L savings.

I believe the thinking would be similar with many more potential car buyers eyeing for their next upgrade with a 10L budget. The price of ES top-end diesel version comes very close to the price of Vento's diesel top-end version. If I were to pick between Vento top-end and ES top-end version, I would go for Vento any day. I would miss the SUVish look and stance of ES no doubt, but then Vento is a tried-and-tested car, and has been on Indian roads for quite some time.

People who cross-shop between Ecosport and the Amaze are, in my opinion, confused about what they want. They just fix their budget (say 10L), and buy what fits into that. They are just shopping for value for their money, not shopping for their need. I think, ford just unintentionally did them a favour by making the product less VFM (price hike), so now probably they shift to what they really need.

I repeat, "my opinion", before some decide to bring out their daggers.

[H_Zoom]

Just an after thought (may be OT) but with Ford garnering about 50K deposit per booking and assuming of an ever growing waiting list of atleast 30K customers at any point in time (given the pace of booking vs delivery) that's a whooping 150 Cr adding to its cash balance. Now top it with the interest that it could earn over a period of 3 - 6 months (avg delivery period). Well Ford could have probably offset some of the hike due to Re/$ change from this amount garnered if it wanted.

But as many have pointed in the earlier posts that Ford is here to do Business and follow the saying probably 'Make hay when the sun shines' at the cost of its loyal customers (who are fine with such long waiting periods).

[Chillout]

Been driving the Fiesta for over 4 yrs and my natural preference would have been to upgrade to Ecosport and have been following it for over a yr. However I have decided to skip this car for they have not been fair with their customers. The Rupee has appreciated now, will they reduce the price if it comes back to 58-60. The answer is NO, however if the demand reduces they will start offering these discounts like what they are doing for All New Fiesta(Rs 112000 discount). I don't expect them to give such big discounts, but 1 yr down the line they will for sure offer discounts.

There is nothing wrong in being practical, aspirations are always nice but one should also be sure that they can afford a car that they aspire and even a marginal increase can affect their plans. We need to be cognizant of that.

Originally Posted by ecosport

People who cross-shop between Ecosport and the Amaze are, in my opinion, confused about what they want. They just fix their budget (say 10L), and buy what fits into that. They are just shopping for value for their money, not shopping for their need. I think, ford just unintentionally did them a favour by making the product less VFM (price hike), so now probably they shift to what they really need.

I repeat, "my opinion", before some decide to bring out their daggers.

[scorpion_blore]

Originally Posted by ecosport

People who cross-shop between Ecosport and the Amaze are, in my opinion, confused about what they want. They just fix their budget (say 10L), and buy what fits into that. They are just shopping for value for their money, not shopping for their need.

That is a well put statement, and it's true. A major portion of Indian consumers are price sensitive. Many potential car buyers had big hopes with Ecosport that it would fall under the 10L bracket, for the top-end version, just like the Amaze.

Just an update: The trio who were discussing about getting the Amaze are now confused between Amaze and Ertiga. Ertiga was previously considered by them as a "Boxy Look" car. But now it has come into consideration since Ecosport is out of their budget, and Ertiga offers better ground clearance compared to Amaze. Again goes on to prove that India is a very price sensitive market, and a majority of the buyers opt for VFM cars.

In my opinion, there are other options that one can consider if opting for the top-end Ecosport. As others pointed out before, Rapid, Vento, Verna, Ertiga, and Amaze come into picture. Agreed that Ecosport offers much more in terms of its SUV stance, interiors, and safety features, but the long waiting period even after paying more than a million bucks is a real buzzkill.

[ecosport]

Originally Posted by Chillout

There is nothing wrong in being practical, aspirations are always nice but one should also be sure that they can afford a car that they aspire and even a marginal increase can affect their plans. We need to be cognizant of that.

I sometimes rue my bad writing skills, especially when the message escapes the audience. What I meant was that once people set a budget, they tend to spend it on whatever gives the maximum bang for their buck no matter whether they need it or not. Just the common error we make when we see those buy one get one free ads, and end up buying two, even though we do not need two. We go by the market perceived value no matter that value is useful to us or not.

[lifebuoy]

Originally Posted by rajneeesh

Dear All,

I am one of the people who has used a Ford product and appreciated the cars performance ( Figo TDCI).

Based on my ownership experice with the Figo and the merits of the new Ecosport, I booked the car the day it was officially launched ( June 26) and put a deposit of 50K

Ford has cited increasing costs and Rupee depreciation as a reason. However, they have garnered hundreds of crores in interest free booking amounts. Moreover, to rub salt on our wounds, they will now charge a cancellation fee.

Once bitten, twice shy goes the adage. There is nothing great about these so called international brands, at the end of the day, they are here to earn money, from gullible customers like you, who swear by brand names. I might sound harsh, but its a fact and your post shows that with no ambiguity.

It's nothing new, Bajaj auto did it for their scooter, the chetak, it was avl against bookings in FE ! Maruti did it all along, exactly the same way - prices at the time of delivery will be applicable is what all the booking terms said, loud and clear. What's wrong if Ford does it now ?

TATA did not hike the prices of the Nano for earlier bookings, I can appreciate the company's ethics now, faced with such cheap tactics the biggies play.

[GunMo]

Originally Posted by ecosport

What I meant was that once people set a budget, they tend to spend it on whatever gives the maximum bang for their buck no matter whether they need it or not.

I would agree if this happens when ford hasn't increased their price. The scenario is different now. People are evaluating other options because Ecosport is out of their budget now.

Even otherwise, they are the customers and have every right to do that. If Ford cares, then they would consider this market dynamics before making such move!

[harishpr]

If customers can spend 10.5 lacs with old price, they can as well spend 11 lacs with revised price provided they 'love ecosport'.
All those criticizing the price hike may not have even booked one, or waiting or ford customers.
It's like skoda or fiat bashing. More than majority of bashers don't own one.
Ford has done the right thing!! Ford is taking advantage of its success, and who doesn't??

Don't people hoping jobs look for better hikes?? Don't employees working for bleeding companies expect annual hikes irrespective of whether company is making profits or not???
Don't colleges take advantage of management seats? Doesn't Airlines take advantage during holiday period? Doesn't a normal middle class citizen take advantage of subsidized fuel or cooking lpg.? Doesn't Maruti or Toyota or royal Enfield or others take advantage on their best selling models???

Every human takes advantage of the situation, and it's the norm. Enough of hypocrisy. MOVE ON!!

If someone claims that they don't take advantage of anything, I name them SAINTS.

[samikc]

Okay I have to say, this is outright unethical and unfair business practice.

I for one has faced similar issue with my recent Mobile purchase and DSLR shopping; in both cases prices were not fixed till the last minute and told later that the price got increased because of INR-USD fluctuation. Did not buy the DSLR, bought the mobile however from from a different dealer. Enough of OT, coming back to Ford, here is what my counter points regarding price hike:

1. It is unfair to increase the price without prior notice to the consumer.

2. It is unfair to charge a fee or token money in lieu of cancellation of the booking. If such payments are taken by the company or the dealership, they must furnish enough reason and facts for what purpose the said fee or token money taken, and also they must furnish what kind of goods or service this charge has been levied on the customer. As it is to be noted that the customer in case of cancellation of a booking has not taken any delivery of the promised goods or product, I mean the car in this case.

3. To drive my point further I would like to quote from a judgement given by the Consumer Forum (“NATIONAL CONSUMER DISPUTES REDRESSAL COMMISSION, New Delhi”):

For having got the full price of the cost of the car as on 15.12.1990, opposite parties could not demand further increase in cost if delivery was not made within six to eight weeks. When the complainant was promised that he would be given delivery of the car within six to eight weeks, he could not imagine that delivery could be delayed for a period of six months. It has been rightly held by the State Commission that as far as Goel was concerned he did perform his part of the agreement and failure was on the part of the opposite parties. There has been thus concurrent finding that there has been deficiency in service inasmuch as opposite parties failed to deliver the car within the promised period. We do not find any error of jurisdiction otherwise for us to exercise our jurisdiction under clause (b) of Section 21 of the Consumer Protection Act, 1986.

The full text can be found at: http://ncdrc.nic.in/rp9742001.html

Let me now think financially from the companies point of view:

Okay, INR-USD is a dangerous yo-yo curve right now, so what a sensible company should do? One word “Hedge”. In trading term protect yourself from untowards situations by means of currency option. If Ford has not done that, fire some finance guys in the company but do not try to pass the buck to the consumer. You have made a mistake pay for it.

Next, bad publicity for Ford. They just started to look like a great VFM company with the EcoSport but now with this kind of price hike it is all negative for them.


Note from Support: Quote added

Originally Posted by harishpr

If customers can spend 10.5 lacs with old price, they can as well spend 11 lacs with revised price provided they 'love ecosport'.
All those criticizing the price hike may not have even booked one, or waiting or ford customers.

Guilty as charged.

Originally Posted by harishpr

Ford has done the right thing!! Ford is taking advantage of its success, and who doesn't??

Don't people hoping jobs look for better hikes?? Don't employees working for bleeding companies expect annual hikes irrespective of whether company is making profits or not???

Yes we do take new job but serve notice period. Yes we ask for hike, but if the company bleeds it does not oblige; rather can give pink slip.

Originally Posted by harishpr

Don't colleges take advantage of management seats?

Do you mean unfair advantage? If so it is the moral quality of the person. I believe most of us justify our actions in the companies otherwise we would not be in any seat. Like, Phaneesh Murthy. [Mods: I am mentioning a name if you deem this reference not fit delete it, I took the name as it is in public domain. However I do not have any knowledge to prove my point about the case of this named gentleman in court of law.]

Originally Posted by harishpr

Doesn't Airlines take advantage during holiday period? Doesn't a normal middle class citizen take advantage of subsidized fuel or cooking lpg.? Doesn't Maruti or Toyota or royal Enfield or others take advantage on their best selling models???

Every human takes advantage of the situation, and it's the norm. Enough of hypocrisy. MOVE ON!!

If someone claims that they don't take advantage of anything, I name them SAINTS.

Saint or not, we take lpg and fuel prices as set by the government or OMCs. As far as airline goes, no airline has ever stopped me to get into a plane as the price of the ticket got increased that day, as I have booked the ticket earlier(at a lower cost of course).

[harishpr]

Originally Posted by samikc

Saint or not, we take lpg and fuel prices as set by the government or OMCs.

Then why do folks fill diesel at HP, BP AND not SHELL.?? Isn't shell selling at market price while Government selling at subsidized rates? Friend, let's not beat around. Every one takes advantage or prefers to get benefited.

[samikc]

Originally Posted by harishpr

Then why do folks fill diesel at HP, BP AND not SHELL.?? Isn't shell selling at market price while Government selling at subsidized rates? Friend, let's not beat around. Every one takes advantage or prefers to get benefited.

My friend, it is not taking advantage or benefit. Referring to the law again, as per "THE CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT, 1986" Chapter II, para 6(c):

the right to be assured, wherever possible, access to a variety of goods and services at competitive prices;

Source: http://www.ncdrc.nic.in/1_1.html

This is the very reason one has the right to go to HP or IOC but not to Shell. It is the choice of the consumer, given by the law of the land. If one follows it as an individual, she (or he) cannot be termed as taking advantage. Now lets not go into all aspects of our daily life, as the OP seeks our collective wisdom about a practice of a company not individual.

To be precise, the questions that bothers me are (IMHO):

1. Can Ford charge extra to its existing customer?
   

   Ans: I think no.

2. Is it permissible under the law?
   

   Ans: Again no. Disclaimer:That's purely how I interpret the law and judgments around it. I stand to be corrected if any Consumer Forum (District, State or National) or a court of law passes a judgement otherwise in this matter.

3. Will there be negative impact on Ford of this decision?
   

   A definite yes.

4. Last but not the least, can ford salvage this?
   

   Ans: A resounding yes. Just protect the existing booking from price hike. Even better give a press statement with assurance to the customers. Even a simple notice in the news papers will do. I feel if Ford can thank for 27,000 booking with full page colour add, it can do a simple notice also. An apology would be great but not mandatory.

So does this all means I say Ford cannot increase the price, hell no. They can increase the price but not to the extent to already booked cars.Disclaimer: Again, that's purely how I interpret the law and judgments around it. I stand to be corrected if any Consumer Forum (District, State or National) or a court of law passes a judgement otherwise in this matter.

[GunMo]

Originally Posted by harishpr

Then why do folks fill diesel at HP, BP AND not SHELL.?? Isn't shell selling at market price while Government selling at subsidized rates? Friend, let's not beat around. Every one takes advantage or prefers to get benefited.

Harishpr, I don't understand the point you are trying to make here. The OP mentioned about certain practices which are unique to auto industry in our country that are questionable.

No other industry has it where a seller can unilaterally alter the price after reaching an agreement. Heck, even after fully paid, "price at the time of delivery" prevails and you'll be asked to pay the difference should there be any price increase. Haven't heard the reverse of any refund being paid citing price reduction or new discounts introduced. The consumer forum case referred in an earlier post is even worse, the delivery was extraordinarily delayed than promised time and still asked to pay the difference citing the revised price.

Booking a car by a customer putting down x amount of money shows the commitment that he or she will pay the balance and take delivery (otherwise forfeit a reasonable amount - known as cancellation fees). Where's the commitment from the car companies that they will deliver the car at the agreed price and at agreed timeframe?

Let the auto companies take all the (fair) advantage they can, but let the customer cancel their booking without any charges if there's a price change or delays in delivery. I think most customers are okay to forgo the interest. The car companies can keep them as "compensation" towards their effort in "trying" to make their sale!

[arjab]

Have a few friends within the automotive community and thus had chance to speak to multiple industry and dealer (Ford) sources in different cities.

It seems, that the discontent is quite high amongst Ecosport customers , especially those who had pre-booked and still awaiting delivery.
Dealers are now getting cancellation requests - a trend which is completely the antithesis of what was happening even 2 months ago - when prospective Ecosport owners were willing to shell out extra money for "special" treatment from dealers in "managing" their booking queue.

The sharp price rise and the de-contenting has the potential to take its toll on the Ecosport's sales march.
Would not be surprised at all to see demand flattening out in 4-5 months time with reasonable waiting periods. Maybe even "off-the-shelf" availability for certain petrol variants in future.

[Unbranded]

You can count on the discontent part, as i was one amongst the many who had done the booking before the price announcement.

Its really not the money part that is significant here, its the way everyone is held at the mercy of the dealerships and ford just maintains that we couldnt do anything about it. And on top of that, the price increase just adds to the overall negative experience a customer goes through. Price protection to maybe the first 10000 bookings would have given a pro customer image and many brownie points.

I am in no tearing hurry for the car and i am ok with the wait, but if i needed a car urgently i defintely would have cancelled the booking to something which is available within a reasonable time frame. How can they expect customers to wait for 18 months for a car - We dont live in 80's when Bajaj was the defacto choice.

Cheers.

[MorePower]

Originally Posted by Unbranded

You can count on the discontent part, as i was one amongst the many who had done the booking before the price announcement.

Its really not the money part that is significant here, its the way everyone is held at the mercy of the dealerships and ford just maintains that we couldnt do anything about it. And on top of that, the price increase just adds to the overall negative experience a customer goes through. Price protection to maybe the first 10000 bookings would have given a pro customer image and many brownie points.

I am in no tearing hurry for the car and i am ok with the wait, but if i needed a car urgently i defintely would have cancelled the booking to something which is available within a reasonable time frame. How can they expect customers to wait for 18 months for a car - We dont live in 80's when Bajaj was the defacto choice.

Cheers.

Agree. Buying a car is an experience we want to cherish, want to remember for all the right reasons. It's a decision that affects the whole family. The kind of tactics Ford and its dealers have adopted right from charging for 'compulsory' accessories to this, they have ensured the car buying experience of 1000s of families has been soured. For many, this could be their first, and last Ford ever!