[desdemona]

This too is off a truck chassis i believe, which is to say it will have neither adequate ride and handling nor off-road chops (for those few in india who might need or crave that).

Methinks the tata Safari Storme, with or without mods, might just trump both the fortuner and this truck-derivative, in value and ride certainly, but arguably also in engineering refinement and offroad ability.

[fuelinmyveins]

Originally Posted by desdemona

This too is off a truck chassis i believe, which is to say it will have neither adequate ride and handling nor off-road chops (for those few in india who might need or crave that).

Methinks the tata Safari Storme, with or without mods, might just trump both the fortuner and this truck-derivative, in value and ride certainly, but arguably also in engineering refinement and offroad ability.

I would like to humbly disagree

1. New endeavour is Based on latest generation ford ranger pick up truck which is first pick up truck with body on frame chassis to receive 5 star euro ncap rating so much better in terms of safety.

2. Ranger has been specifically designed for off road so good approach and departure angles with excellent fording height and better body control than top heavy and ponderous safari.

3. I distinctly remember that Alan mulally said at the launch of ranger that improvement in ride quality was a priority as a result it won't be as lumpy as fortuner or as bouncy as before though I concede that I don't think it will match safari.

4. Even safari storme is also body on frame chassis suv so it's no less a truck than fortuner or endeavour


5. The 3 liter engine is expected to belt out close to 200 BHP that coupled with lower weight will result in great performance I expect 0-100 in 10.xx second range compared to 15.xx for safari.

6.Looking at the interiors for ranger pick-up they are of good quality and fit and finish is reported to good coupled with usually good feature list as expected from ford.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins

I would like to humbly disagree

1. New endeavour is Based on latest generation ford ranger pick up truck which is first pick up truck with body on frame chassis to receive 5 star euro ncap rating so much better in terms of safety.

2. Ranger has been specifically designed for off road so good approach and departure angles with excellent fording height and better body control than top heavy and ponderous safari.

3. I distinctly remember that Alan mulally said at the launch of ranger that improvement in ride quality was a priority as a result it won't be as lumpy as fortuner or as bouncy as before though I concede that I don't think it will match safari.

4. Even safari storme is also body on frame chassis suv so it's no less a truck than fortuner or endeavour


5. The 3 liter engine is expected to belt out close to 200 BHP that coupled with lower weight will result in great performance I expect 0-100 in 10.xx second range compared to 15.xx for safari.

6.Looking at the interiors for ranger pick-up they are of good quality and fit and finish is reported to good coupled with usually good feature list as expected from ford.

Several points you bring up that are interesting to know especially the fact that it received a 5 star ENCAP rating and was designed to go offroad.
I must however point out a few things; the Safari Storme, to my knowledge is based on the Aria so it is a monocoque chassis and the Endy is expected to come with a 2.2 liter unit that's good for 150 horses should still be a torquey imposing SUV that's pretty quick but wont win any races against a sedan
Ofcourse, I may be wrong because I know very little about SUVs (they're not really my thing)

[classact]

This Endy looks to have combined the brute looks and some finesse in right proportion. Will go very well with the Indian consumer's I guess. Although I prefer the existing Endy for it's good old brute looks.

[desdemona]

Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins

I would like to humbly disagree

1. New endeavour is Based on latest generation ford ranger pick up truck which is first pick up truck with body on frame chassis to receive 5 star euro ncap rating so much better in terms of safety.

2. Ranger has been specifically designed for off road so good approach and departure angles with excellent fording height and better body control than top heavy and ponderous safari.

3. I distinctly remember that Alan mulally said at the launch of ranger that improvement in ride quality was a priority as a result it won't be as lumpy as fortuner or as bouncy as before though I concede that I don't think it will match safari.

4. Even safari storme is also body on frame chassis suv so it's no less a truck than fortuner or endeavour


5. The 3 liter engine is expected to belt out close to 200 BHP that coupled with lower weight will result in great performance I expect 0-100 in 10.xx second range compared to 15.xx for safari.

6.Looking at the interiors for ranger pick-up they are of good quality and fit and finish is reported to good coupled with usually good feature list as expected from ford.

I have no doubt it will sell well enough as sheer size and beefiness is valued here esp in north india, and is good enough by the abysmal standards of our market. However, there are a few things to consider, albeit debatable:

(a) The safari has a 'hydroformed' chassis, which is as i understand it and as confirmed from ownership reports an excellent halfway house between a ladder-on-frame and a monocoque.

(b) Ford will have to price it at least twice (or more) the cost of a safari storme, making it a rip-off, like the fortuner

(c) To my mind and eye at least: tata motors has more 'desi street cred' as an suv maker than ford. the ford brand in the US may include suv-s and trucks but in reality the only true-to-brand-value vehicles have been from ford europe: hatchbacks, sedans with sporty ride and handling and styling. Now, if this had been a Ram or a Jeep then sure the brand story would've fit the product.

(d) Speaking of Jeep: Fiat will bring it here soon enough (2015?), and should begin local manufacture of the terrific new Renegade at Ranjangaon, and maybe also a new global C-Suv too in 2016, with fiat engines of course. That will be more like it, i'd say!! Meanwhile, the tata safari storme trumps the others, i'd claim.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I must however point out a few things; the Safari Storme, to my knowledge is based on the Aria so it is a monocoque chassis and the Endy is expected to come with a 2.2 liter unit that's good for 150 horses should still be a torquey imposing SUV that's pretty quick but wont win any races against a sedan

Not True. The Safari has a ladder chassis (body on frame). Hydro-forming is used to make the chassis, which makes it structurally more rigid compared the older Safari, but most global chassis manufacturers already use Hydro forming. It is new for Tata that is why they are touting it.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Of-course, I may be wrong because I know very little about SUVs (they're not really my thing)

Spot on. Very True...

Originally Posted by desdemona

This too is off a truck chassis i believe, which is to say it will have neither adequate ride and handling nor off-road chops (for those few in india who might need or crave that).

Methinks the tata Safari Storme, with or without mods, might just trump both the fortuner and this truck-derivative, in value and ride certainly, but arguably also in engineering refinement and offroad ability.

Tata safari's main strength is it's ride comfort. Don't forget the chassis of the original Safari is same as the Tatamobile pick up, Tata Estate etc. Only the Safari Storme & Aria share the newer strengthened chassis. But either way all the vehicles you mention are based on chassis/frame set up.

Despite of what you say, the Fortuner sells more than twice the numbers of the Safari. For it's ride comfort there are too many negatives associated with Tata. To understand this, you need to drive a Safari that has clocked 60K on the odo.

Safari is sold in a market where there is hardly any competition. The Ranger, Mitsubishi Pajero Sport, Fortuner etc are designed for much more developed markets and hence engineered better.

[Sheel]

Perfectly put 4X4.

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Despite of what you say, the Fortuner sells more than twice the numbers of the Safari. For it's ride comfort there are too many negatives associated with Tata. To understand this, you need to drive a Safari that has clocked 60K on the odo.

And a Fortuner/Mitsubishi which has done 120k on the odo.

Safari is sold in a market where there is hardly any competition. The Ranger, Mitsubishi Pajero Sport, Fortuner etc are designed for much more developed markets and hence engineered better.

And aren't as prone to mechanical/electrical glitches as a Tata is (improving, yes, but not there)

A Range Rover too fails, but it should not. When MUL can build and sell cars which cost 3L, but seldom throw glitches (if serviced & driven properly) then why cars costing 10 times or 100 times do?

[desdemona]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Not True. The Safari has a ladder chassis (body on frame) Hydro-forming is used to make the chassis, which makes it structurally more rigid compared the older Safari, but most global chasis manufacturers already use Hydro forming. It is new for Tata that is why they are touting it.
.
.
.
Tata safari's main strength is it's ride comfort. Don't forget the chassis of the original Safari is same as the Tatamobile pick up, Tata Estate etc. Only the Safari Storme & Aria share the newer strengthened chassis. But either way all the vehicles you mention are based on chassis/frame set up.

Despite of what you say, the Fortuner sells more than twice the numbers of the Safari. For it's ride comfort there are too many negatives associated with Tata. To understand this, you need to drive a Safari that has clocked 60K on the odo.

Safari is sold in a market where there is hardly any competition. The Ranger, Mitsubishi Pajero Sport, Fortuner etc are designed for much more developed markets and hence engineered better.

The Ffortuner sells twice as much though its engineering's no match for the Safari Storme, on or especially offroad. or so i have concluded by extensive research and conversations with a couple of hardcore offroaders. I also costs more than twice as much.

I believe most buyers are interested too much in displaying their "wealthy manliness" and too little in the quality of engineering. I know, I know! "But it is reliable"! It is a made-for-third-world glorified pickup truck but...it's a Toyota, and reliable! I believe Tata Motors have shown up the fraudulence of these global brands in markets like India, as have Mahindra to a degree with the XUV500. I have the money but I will not buy an exorbitantly priced glorified Thai pickup truck, nor will I buy a Ford that has nothing to do with Ford's USP of ride-handling-steering-styling, i.e., that is not a hatch or sedan like the fiesta or focus or fusion. As i said, if it's an authentic new Jeep or a new Land Rover model with Indian manufacturing and costing, then sure. Otherwise, I still maintain a Tata Safari Storme/Aria and a Mahindra XUV500 are better by far, all told.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by desdemona

The Ffortuner sells twice as much though its engineering's no match for the Safari Storme, on or especially offroad. or so i have concluded by extensive research and conversations with a couple of hardcore offroaders. I also costs more than twice as much.

Guess, you are the expert then. Maybe that why UN is switching to Tata Safari Storme from Toyota/Mitsu and other Japanese products.

Safari Storme is a very good product in the price it is sold, but to say that it is better engineered than a Fortuner is being naive. You need to drill down into the core mechanicals of both platform to understand this. This argument cannot be won on emotional grounds.

[IshaanIan]

I have to say it's a no-brainer: The Endeavor (upcoming new one), Fortuner and Pajero Sport are all truly in a league of their own and the Safari emulates their qualities but is simply no match.

[fuelinmyveins]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Several points you bring up that are interesting to know especially the fact that it received a 5 star ENCAP rating and was designed to go offroad.
I must however point out a few things; the Safari Storme, to my knowledge is based on the Aria so it is a monocoque chassis and the Endy is expected to come with a 2.2 liter unit that's good for 150 horses should still be a torquey imposing SUV that's pretty quick but wont win any races against a sedan
Ofcourse, I may be wrong because I know very little about SUVs (they're not really my thing)

Originally Posted by desdemona

I have no doubt it will sell well enough as sheer size and beefiness is valued here esp in north india, and is good enough by the abysmal standards of our market. However, there are a few things to consider, albeit debatable:

(a) The safari has a 'hydroformed' chassis, which is as i understand it and as confirmed from ownership reports an excellent halfway house between a ladder-on-frame and a monocoque.

(b) Ford will have to price it at least twice (or more) the cost of a safari storme, making it a rip-off, like the fortuner

(c) To my mind and eye at least: tata motors has more 'desi street cred' as an suv maker than ford. the ford brand in the US may include suv-s and trucks but in reality the only true-to-brand-value vehicles have been from ford europe: hatchbacks, sedans with sporty ride and handling and styling. Now, if this had been a Ram or a Jeep then sure the brand story would've fit the product.

(d) Speaking of Jeep: Fiat will bring it here soon enough (2015?), and should begin local manufacture of the terrific new Renegade at Ranjangaon, and maybe also a new global C-Suv too in 2016, with fiat engines of course. That will be more like it, i'd say!! Meanwhile, the tata safari storme trumps the others, i'd claim.

Hydroforming is a process of shaping ductile metals by using static or dynamic fluid pressure. the parts so formed can be lighter in weight for the same strength required as compared to casting or hot/cold forming. When this technique is used for forming various chassis members the chassis so formed is known as a hydroformed chassis but its in "no way related to a monocoque chassis".

Its just that various members of the chassis is formed using different technique so Safari is still a truck like endeavour or fortuner.

The enginerering prowess of tata is shown in their level fit/finish , reliability , crash safety , handling etc

no offense i agree that safari storme is way cheaper and i love that car , it makes me weak in my knees when i see one on the road and yes the endy/fortuner are way-way expensive for what they are but atleast for new " to be launched " ford endeavour you would have to agree thats its a much superior product.

[karan561]

Spotted for the 1st time in production body



Source

[arjuunz]

The cars looks great, stands tall with muscular looks. Looks like a good competition for fortuner! But it certainly looks like a big brother of ecosport.

Any idea what's under the hood ? And what are those tyres, all season tyres or something specific for off road terrain?

[Sheel]

Indeed, after seeing pics posted by Karan, I do doubt of the pricing being close to 20. Seems, the pricing would be somewhere close to 25 OTR.

Now, if the pricing would be close to 25, the new Endevour will have to very good so that it can stand against the Fortuner & Pajero Sports which have already proved themselves & have customers. Merely being different won't help. Ask Captiva, Santa Fe or Koleos. Yup, they are monocoque, still...

Isuzu MU-7 would have impacted the sales a bit, but they are still lumbering and the MU-7 doesn't offer anything special for people to go ahead & buy it.

Would wait to see what the new Endevour does.

[karan561]

Originally Posted by arjuunz

Any idea what's under the hood ? And what are those tyres, all season tyres or something specific for off road terrain?

Those look more like all season tires, only some countries like SA, Australia may get All terrain type tires as OE.

Originally Posted by Sheel

Indeed, after seeing pics posted by Karan, I do doubt of the pricing being close to 20. Seems, the pricing would be somewhere close to 25 OTR.

Now, if the pricing would be close to 25, the new Endevour will have to very good so that it can stand against the Fortuner & Pajero Sports which have already proved themselves & have customers. Merely being different won't help. Ask Captiva, Santa Fe or Koleos. Yup, they are monocoque, still...

+1

With the current Fortuner being OTR in the high 20s, this will give liberty to Ford to price the new Endeavor in the 25-27 OTR range.