[amit_2025]

Maruti isn't essentially targeting the enthusiast; which brand in India really does?

With focus on the rear seat comfort and space they are probably targeting the "Babu" who would be more worried about the mileage/maintenance costs than drive-ability. Definitely see this selling in large numbers if they can really differentiate this as a "premium" offering considering the wide demographics of this segment's buyer.

Would it really be a Worthy Upgrade for someone already driving a 1.5 or 1.6 L Engine? Only the Team Bhp review will tell

[harry10]

Originally Posted by amit_2025

Would it really be a Worthy Upgrade for someone already driving a 1.5 or 1.6 L Engine? Only the Team Bhp review will tell

How can it be a upgrade for someone who is already driving a 1.5 or 1.6L engine? It's more of a downgrade. Ya, I am like others waiting for T-bhp review to get a clear picture on pros and cons.

I will agree with the posts below. Average person isn't bothered about its a 1.3 or 1.6 engine. They are more concerned with mileage, maintenance, features, looks, cost. And Maruti seems to have got most of it right and I expect them to launch it at a Vfm price tag.

I want Ciaz to succeed as it will create more healthy competition in this segment which will in the end benefit us.

[amit_2025]

Originally Posted by harry10

How can it be a upgrade for someone who is already driving a 1.5 or 1.6L engine? It's more of a downgrade.

I want Ciaz to succeed as it will create more healthy competition in this segment which will in the end benefit us.

Likewise. I mentioned in my earlier post on this thread that I would probably be one of the first buyers subject to it ticking at least all the boxes that My Current Drive (SX4) does. While the need is to have a decent mileage diesel for daily drive; definitely not willing to compromise on the drive-ability.

Looking forward to Maruti getting it right. An Effortless Diesel with a smooth AT Box.

[IshaanIan]

Alright, yes. The car will only come with a 1.3 Diesel at launch but it is nice to here them trying to bring the 1.6 eventually. Also, considering the current scenario and predicted rates of fuel, why is no one interested in this new K14 motor on steroids? What have they done to achieve more power and how do people reckon this will drive?

Any news on whether there will be an automatic option from its launch? A CVT perhaps?

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Alright, yes. The car will only come with a 1.3 Diesel at launch but it is nice to here them trying to bring the 1.6 eventually. Also, considering the current scenario and predicted rates of fuel, why is no one interested in this new K14 motor on steroids? What have they done to achieve more power and how do people reckon this will drive?

Any news on whether there will be an automatic option from its launch? A CVT perhaps?

Earlier a CVT was reported in place of AMT. Not sure whether it will be finally launched or left for a facelift.

[TheTeacher]

It all depends on how the Ciaz drives. The Linea is a heavy car, and the 1.3 MJD just isn't enough for it. I was determined to buy it, but one test drive and I knew I just couldn't use it in the city. I ended up buying the T-Jet instead.

But there are lots of happy diesel Linea owners, including on TBHP. Likewise, I personally felt the Ertiga was a tad underpowered when fully loaded, but many owners on TBHP disagreed with me.

I guess the point is that the 1.6 MJD probably would have satisfied everybody, but enthusiasts will skip the Ciaz if it has only the 1.3. Crazy Driver already said so, and I am of the same opinion.

[audioholic]

Well, for all those who debate on the small engine, yes its not an enthusiast oriented engine. If you search for the scoop of the ertiga on TBHP, countless posts were made on how underpowered the engine will be, and how this would affect sales. For an unladen weight slightly lesser than the Ertiga, and a fully loaded weight way less than the ertiga, the same engine will do better. How are people accepting the linea and the facelifted Linea with the same engine, and in this case asking for more power?

The target market is the people who like to enjoy the backseat comfort and the legroom, and put a driver up front. After sitting in the backseat of an ertiga, if you place the Ciaz next to it, a prospective customer will think twice before they prefer two extra seats.

From a long time, Maruti and Hyundai show cannibalisation within their own stables. Honda will slowly join. There is little jump from manufacturer to manufacturer in the short term. Here in this case, net sales to Maruti will remain as it is, or maybe show a small change since market share of sedans is less compared to hatches, or even MUVs. After the initial euphoria over the City is over, along with production caps, its just the right tine for Maruti to flood in with a lot of delivery ready Ciaz.

I guess even my dad will be bowled by the Backseat comfort which may make us buy the Ciaz impulsively, unless we pool in money and go for a bigger vehicle

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by TheTeacher

I guess the point is that the 1.6 MJD probably would have satisfied everybody, but enthusiasts will skip the Ciaz if it has only the 1.3. Crazy Driver already said so, and I am of the same opinion.

1.6 MJD will need to be imported and hence will not satisfy the targeted segment that the Ciaz is intended since it will be priced higher than the most competitors in this segemnt.

If you see the upcoming S cross is reported to come with the 1.3 DDIS and a 1.6 diesel to cater to a wider customer base.

IMO, since Ciaz is reported to have been tested with the 1.6 also it will phase in the Ciaz at a later date.

[lal79]

Originally Posted by audioholic

For an unladen weight slightly lesser than the Ertiga, and a fully loaded weight way less than the ertiga, the same engine will do better.

I agree with you here. It will do better than Ertiga. But the question is will it do better than City and Verna, the segment leaders.

Originally Posted by audioholic

How are people accepting the linea and the facelifted Linea with the same engine, and in this case asking for more power?

The highest number of Linea sold this year was 664 in March 2014. After that it is dealing with 200+ and 100+ numbers in the last few months. That I think an indication that the Linea is not well accepted. I know that its not just because of the engine. Fiat's Dealership network and inconsistent ASS also attributes to the poor performance even after a face lift.
Definitely Ciaz will do better than Linea, because it is a Maruti. But against City and Verna? Doubtful IMHO.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by lal79

.

The highest number of Linea sold this year was 664 in March 2014. After that it is dealing with 200+ and 100+ numbers in the last few months. That I think an indication that the Linea is not well accepted. I know that its not just because of the engine. Fiat's Dealership network and inconsistent ASS also attributes to the poor performance even after a face lift.
Definitely Ciaz will do better than Linea, because it is a Maruti. But against City and Verna? Doubtful IMHO.

Actually, even if Fiat got in the 1.6L on Linea, it still wouldn't have sold considering brand image and presence. Also, I haven't or will not claim that this will rule the segment anywhere. Its obvious that the engine options don't come close to the rivals.

Catch is to do with the price. Will it be priced in the range of the city or Verna? NO. You can expect it to undercut the segment. Thus this will create a sub segment kind of atmosphere between compact sedans and midsize sedans considering engine size. By dimensions it will be huge, but pricing or performance wise, it can be positioned a little above the compact sedans where there is a gap present currently.

Two years ago, if one was following the car scene in India, MSIL had made a statement that it would bring a sedan positioned between tHe Dzire and the SX4. This will be the product. Practicality a replacement for SX4, but technically a bit lower since the petrol engine small and as for the diesel engine, the 1.3L engine was put into the SX4 locally whereas it comes with bigger diesel engines globally.

[aseem]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Actually, even if Fiat got in the 1.6L

Two years ago, if one was following the car scene in India, MSIL had made a statement that it would bring a sedan positioned between tHe Dzire and the SX4. This will be the product. Practicality a replacement for SX4, but technically a bit lower since the petrol engine small and as for the diesel engine, the 1.3L engine was put into the SX4 locally whereas it comes with bigger diesel engines globally.

Ciaz is a segment higher then SX4 and not lower. It would be priced accordingly.

[reppy]

Originally Posted by lal79

I agree with you here. It will do better than Ertiga. But the question is will it do better than City and Verna, the segment leader.

Definitely Ciaz will do better than Linea, because it is a Maruti. But against City and Verna? Doubtful IMHO.

The Ciaz beats the Verna in everything except engine power, the Honda is the only competition here.

So Maruti is playing the VFM card here obviously - a car that has almost all the features and space of the City, looks larger than the City, has same power output as the City (diesel), available at a cheaper price than the City.

I don't think engine power is the problem here - brand perception is. Now had it been the 1.6 diesel, the brand perception issue would have diluted slightly, but not by a huge amount.

I just hope Maruti service is geared up for servicing of this class of car and all the electronic jing-bang it brings along.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by reppy

So Maruti is playing the VFM card here obviously - a car that has almost all the features and space of the City, looks larger than the City, has same power output as the City (diesel), available at a cheaper price than the City.

Almost? If you go through images, specs and features, it seems like it has more space and features than the City

[zenren]

Originally Posted by reppy

I don't think engine power is the problem here - brand perception is. Now had it been the 1.6 diesel, the brand perception issue would have diluted slightly, but not by a huge amount.

Agree to this. Maruti is already perceived as a maker of small cars and not good enough to build bigger cars. If they try to price Ciaz as a big car, this perception is going to get cemented even further since engine options are 1.4L petrol and 1.3L diesel both of which as small car engines to the ordinary buyer.

The aam aadmi would just see it as Maruti building a bigger car and putting Swift's diesel engine into it. They don't understand the concept of different state of tune or power output and just goes with the "bigger is better" mantra. They'll just think that Maruti still doesn't know how to make a bigger engine.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Almost? If you go through images, specs and features, it seems like it has more space and features than the City

Comparison of features between top versions: Yes.

However, it remains to be seen how Maruti would stock up the lower variants when compared to the City, especially around the safety area. The "small car" mindset extending into the decision making process is probably why their bigger cars like SX4 didn't get ABS and airbags on the VXi variant in the past while City gives it from the base variant. I hope they spec it on par with the City.

[aniketi]

Originally Posted by lal79

I agree with you here. It will do better than Ertiga. But the question is will it do better than City and Verna, the segment leaders.

They don't need to

Yes, Maruti is market leader & they don't need to do better than City & Verna in every aspect. If you see, people say Amaze & Xcent are way better than Dzire, but in reality Dzire is the market king. Same goes with Swift as well. Here Ciaz has little less powered engine but has other advantages over City & Verna. I am sure 1.3 DDiS with VGT will do much better in Ciaz than people are thinking. End of the day, normal customer is happy with Maruti brand. Whatever good car Maruti has given, almost all has done well in market. Same will be applicable with Ciaz. Hope they price it aggressively