[malq]

We have two Swift VDi+ABS, Feb 2008 and August 2009, and fact remains, these are fun cars to own and drive and put the hammer down on. Would not really need an upgrade or fresh design change to keep it as a fun car. If I wanted anything more, I would probably ask for stronger headlamps, double flip rear seats for more boot space and possibly a two-door version.

[Pam81]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

That statement couldn't be further from truth. The Swift we got in 2011 was a new generation, an all new car. It just looks the same on the outside as Suzuki followed an evolution rather than revolution and rightly so since the previous generation had done the hard work of making a distinct design very popular. That said, the new generation didn't share a single panel with the old one. The engines were carried over and they too received minor tweaks.

This is the exact thing going on with MSIL. What is the point in calling a second generation when all you could do is just get a new tool to press the same dimension body panels & chassis components? But it's all new. Well it could be new, did it bring marked improvement over its predecessor to call it a generation apart? It's hardly convincing that way!!

Engines getting carried over into facelifts probably common with many OEMs. What are you seeing with other OEMs hasn't been seen in Maruti. Marked improvement in fit & finish, top notch plastics etc. The Zest is totally transformed. Swift definitely won't need a transformation, it's already an enthusiast's toy but what it has been missing is a feel good factor in the inside!

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Pam81

What is the point in calling a second generation when all you could do is just get a new tool to press the same dimension body panels & chassis components? But it's all new. Well it could be new, did it bring marked improvement over its predecessor to call it a generation apart? It's hardly convincing that way!!

I don't know what you wanted to convey but the current generation Swift is miles apart from the older one in almost many ways. The platform is new, design of panels + interiors are new. A small change given to the engine characteristics.

Look at the below screen shots taken in comparison with Old Swift vs New Swift.

Front end:


Rear 3-quarters:


Dashboard:


Instrumentation Console:


PS: Using the mobile App so please apologise for the pictures as they are screenshots taken from Google.

Source: Google Images.

Originally Posted by Pam81

The Zest is totally transformed.

Zest is 'totally' transformed?! Transformed from what? Isn't this the first car?

Anurag.

[aseem]

Originally Posted by Pam81

This is the exact thing going on with MSIL. What is the point in calling a second generation when all you could do is just get a new tool to press the same dimension body panels & chassis components? But it's all new. Well it could be new, did it bring marked improvement over its predecessor to call it a generation apart? It's hardly convincing that way!!

Engines getting carried over into facelifts probably common with many OEMs. What are you seeing with other OEMs hasn't been seen in Maruti. Marked improvement in fit & finish, top notch plastics etc. The Zest is totally transformed. Swift definitely won't need a transformation, it's already an enthusiast's toy but what it has been missing is a feel good factor in the inside!

Look at New Honda City it too looks like older generation. Can hardly blame MUL they just refined something that was already doing great for them. Going radical always carried a risk.

[deetjohn]

Looks like you're thoroughly mistaken.

Originally Posted by Pam81

This is the exact thing going on with MSIL. What is the point in calling a second generation when all you could do is just get a new tool to press the same dimension body panels & chassis components? But it's all new. Well it could be new, did it bring marked improvement over its predecessor to call it a generation apart? It's hardly convincing that way!!

Like I said before. Each body panel is new. And they are different in not just size but shape as well. I urge you to compare both cars side by side. The doors, the fenders, the frame etc. are all different. And how does it benefit the customer if he/ she doesn't have an eye for aesthetics? The new generation car is stiffer and safer while being lighter despite the new car being dimensionally bigger. Now, that's something you can achieve only with a generation change. The suspension bits are all new as well. The old Swift used to crash into potholes and was not comfortable at all. The new one despite riding on bigger 15" wheels is much more comfortable over broken bits of road and it corners flat too. The ride has gone up leaps and bounds over the old car. How do I know? We had a 2007 LDi before.

Originally Posted by Pam81

Engines getting carried over into facelifts probably common with many OEMs. What are you seeing with other OEMs hasn't been seen in Maruti. Marked improvement in fit & finish, top notch plastics etc. The Zest is totally transformed. Swift definitely won't need a transformation, it's already an enthusiast's toy but what it has been missing is a feel good factor in the inside!

Have you been inside the new Swift at all? I ask because that's where the improvement is most drastic I feel. The quality of plastics, fit and finish have greatly improved over the old generation. I feel the new Swift got one of the best cabins in B segment. Its a nice place to live in. Reason why I have left it all stock on the inside. My car has done 45K and is closing in on 3 years. And its holding up very well. In comparison, the old car was a rattle box.

And the NVH is also substantially better than the old car. The car is quieter and much more refined. It will be blind to say the improvements are not substantial between the two cars. The two cars look similar on photos. So, I urge you to experience the 2011 car in person and maybe read through our official review after that. The changes are more than skin deep.

And let's not bring the Tata Zest into this discussion. Because its not fair on Tata as its just a very good face lift in comparison.

[arnabchak]

Originally Posted by blue_pulsar

These features are already present in Z variant:

My mistake.

I meant for the V variant.

Wish List for V:

1) Rear Wash and Wipe
2) Alloys(Zest has alloys from its base so why not the swift)
3) ABS to counter the spongy brakes
4) Better boot space(all variant)

[Pam81]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

I don't know what you wanted to convey but the current generation Swift is miles apart from the older one in almost many ways. The platform is new, design of panels + interiors are new. A small change given to the engine characteristics.

In a nutshell, it's a good mass market car with very unbeatable driving characteristics. I wish they add premium interiors to round off the corners. I could recognize that most of the Swift (may be all) owners love the interiors and are okay. My wish is to have more premium-ness to be top of the table in all features, no dispute of its success in sales. What if, if you are enthusiast but don't want to compromise on plush feeling inside the car too? It's a hard choice with Swift!

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Zest is 'totally' transformed?! Transformed from what? Isn't this the first car?

It is a transformation from X1 platform of Vista. It has been mentioned in T-BHP review that TATA claims extensive re-engineering of X1 platform for Zest.

Originally Posted by deetjohn

Looks like you're thoroughly mistaken.

Have you been inside the new Swift at all? I ask because that's where the improvement is most drastic I feel. The quality of plastics, fit and finish have greatly improved over the old generation. I feel the new Swift got one of the best cabins in B segment. Its a nice place to live in.

I believe I'm not mistaken and I could not agree to your statement of “best cabin in B segment”. Please take a look at other B segment hatches. I have been on 2011 Swift many times. All blackish interiors, really claustrophobic. All that big matte finish plastics, sorry, it could be my personal taste or opinion but it is definitely far from best cabins of B segment.

Originally Posted by deetjohn

And the NVH is also substantially better than the old car. The car is quieter and much more refined. It will be blind to say the improvements are not substantial between the two cars. The two cars look similar on photos. So, I urge you to experience the 2011 car in person and maybe read through our official review after that. The changes are more than skin deep.

Thanks for putting out lots of details. My wish is to have more premium-ness in Swift and really visible changes. Even our T-BHP review says it is identical with outgoing in closely everyway. You could argue that unless you drive it you will never know, and I agree with that and your detailed explanation shows that. Again, it's a just a personal opinion. My problem is to have it grand in every way than it will be truly unbeatable. I could not see that in MSIL.

Originally Posted by deetjohn

And let's not bring the Tata Zest into this discussion. Because its not fair on Tata as its just a very good face lift in comparison.

I meant their transformation from X1 platform of Vista into amazing Zest in every way.

[deetjohn]

Originally Posted by Pam81

I believe I'm not mistaken and I could not agree to your statement of “best cabin in B segment”. Please take a look at other B segment hatches. I have been on 2011 Swift many times. All blackish interiors, really claustrophobic. All that big matte finish plastics, sorry, it could be my personal taste or opinion but it is definitely far from best cabins of B segment.

We can agree to disagree here. I really appreciate all black interiors. For me, they are elegant, sporty and so desirable. And nothing gets my goat than yellowish beige interiors. That is so overrated like "claustrophobia" for instance. And I blame the different auto magazines for misguiding people into thinking that beige is premium. Anyways, its a very subjective topic and that's a totally different discussion for another thread.

Coming back to the 2011 Swift, its not all monotonous matte on the inside. No, definitely not. Take a look at the photo below that I took from my car today morning.



The entire dash and door pads are made of up materials with different texture and feel in various shades of black. The portion above the arm rest where your arm comes in contact with door is made of black fabric. And the top most section has a carbon fiber like texture. And the grain on the plastic which form the majority of interior looks good as well. Add that trim in silver and it makes for a sweet looking well thought out cabin for a sporty car. Compared to that the previous generation has a monotonous grey interior. So, the Swift interior has certainly gone up by leaps and bounds and to me, its one of best cabins in the segment.

Tata has also done a great job with the Bolt with all black interiors. I cant wait to see that in person. All I can say is, may the tribe increase!

[e46]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

We can agree to disagree here. I really appreciate all black interiors. For me, they are elegant, sporty and so desirable. And nothing gets my goat than yellowish beige interiors. That is so overrated like "claustrophobia" for instance. And I blame the different auto magazines for misguiding people into thinking that beige is premium. Anyways, its a very subjective topic and that's a totally different discussion for another thread.

Totally agree and second that. This perceived premium feel with beige excessiveness is something I loathe. All black interiors look elegant and sporty any day. Hope MS dont change that with their their upcoming facelift.

drive safe
Abhishek //M

[Pam81]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

And I blame the different auto magazines for misguiding people into thinking that beige is premium. Anyways, it’s a very subjective topic and that's a totally different discussion for another thread.

I don't know if they need to be blamed or not, but that's nearly 90% percent of magazines and even our T-BHP review of 2011 Swift mentioned the same. All of them can't be wrong, however I do agree personal tastes could be different and it is very subjective to prove which one is great. I was taking majority opinion when I felt low about the interiors.

Originally Posted by deetjohn

Coming back to the 2011 Swift, it’s not all monotonous matte on the inside. No, definitely not. Take a look at the photo below that I took from my car today morning.

The entire dash and door pads are made of up materials with different texture and feel in various shades of black. The portion above the arm rest where your arm comes in contact with door is made of black fabric. And the top most section has a carbon fiber like texture. And the grain on the plastic which form the majority of interior looks good as well.

It is a hard plastic compared to other hatchbacks. Some parameters that I could think to quantify will be grain stuture's peaks as measured from the base polymer and how it feels to touch and glide the fingers. Without even fabric, some plastics feel real soft for touch and glide. TATA Zest's door trim plastic quality is very good. Unfortunately, I could not get a close-up picture. This picture is from T-BHP review of Zest.

Originally Posted by deetjohn

Add that trim in silver and it makes for a sweet looking well thought out cabin for a sporty car. Compared to that the previous generation has a monotonous grey interior. So, the Swift interior has certainly gone up by leaps and bounds and to me, it’s one of best cabins in the segment.

Again different perceptions, but majority of reviews did not cite Swift's interiors are best. Not to mention T-BHP review again.
Swift overrides the rational to own for its price-point only if the buyer agrees to live with it and many never have a problem with it.

Compared to any hatch, Swift tick marks 90% (perhaps 100% for many) of requirements to own and enjoy and that's the ultimate testament for being #1 in sales among B segment. I don't know if it is too much to ask for more to make it even perfect at par with premium interiors and updates on body styles. This might be totally different than the current owner's feel and joy such as yours and one could argue that it's only perception, but still it counts. For other hatches, major problems do exist in one way or the other in terms of handling, engine power, service issues, maintenance etc.

Eager to what's going to come up for Swift & MSIL as they are gearing up to change the image of volume maker to go premium as well. This might have come across, but just in case http://www.team-bhp.com/news/maruti-...ence-customers

[deetjohn]

Originally Posted by Pam81

It is a hard plastic compared to other hatchbacks. Some parameters that I could think to quantify will be grain stuture's peaks as measured from the base polymer and how it feels to touch and glide the fingers. Without even fabric, some plastics feel real soft for touch and glide. TATA Zest's door trim plastic quality is very good. Unfortunately, I could not get a close-up picture. This picture is from T-BHP review of Zest.

I don't see how that trim on Zest is substantially better (if at all) than the interiors of the 2011 Swift. Zest feels so good since there is giant leap in the design and quality of interiors compared to Manza/ Vista. And trust me, Tata really needs that to move cars now. And good job to them.

Originally Posted by Pam81

Compared to any hatch, Swift tick marks 90% (perhaps 100% for many) of requirements to own and enjoy and that's the ultimate testament for being #1 in sales among B segment. I don't know if it is too much to ask for more to make it even perfect at par with premium interiors and updates on body styles. This might be totally different than the current owner's feel and joy such as yours and one could argue that it's only perception, but still it counts.

On body style, my personal wish is that Suzuki just use evolution of design for the Swift. I like it that iconic designs don't change much over the years.

And trust me, no car will give you 100% and Swift is definitely not 100%. I am a guy who nitpick especially when it comes to cars. MSIL can improve the 2011 Swift in many ways. I have addressed some of them in a post in this very thread and my ownership thread. Out of that list, I would give the most precedence to #7 from a quality standpoint. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3296073

But, not the interior trim. There was substantial improvement in the 2011 Swift. More on that below.

Originally Posted by Pam81

I don't know if they need to be blamed or not, but that's nearly 90% percent of magazines and even our T-BHP review of 2011 Swift mentioned the same. All of them can't be wrong, however I do agree personal tastes could be different and it is very subjective to prove which one is great. I was taking majority opinion when I felt low about the interiors

On interiors, I have no complaints as an owner who has lived with the car for close to 3 years now. What prompted me to reply was the first post by yours which mentioned Swift hasn't changed much in a decade almost. But, that's simply not the case.

And its the cabin which has undergone the most appreciable change. Most folks paint the 2011 Swift using the same brush that they dealt the old Swift with. Its always monotonous and claustrophobic dark interiors which rattle. I just wanted to point out that is not the case and there are many who appreciate dark interiors. I think around 90% of all cars sold in the UK has all black interiors. But then again, this is very subjective.

Somehow, most folks in our market (and this very forum sadly) feels a face lift means more bits and pieces in beige or chrome. If I can bring a small change to that perception, I will be more than happy. Here is that thread where we can address the the subjective part of it. Incidentally, started by yours truly. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ss-chrome.html

Originally Posted by Pam81

Eager to what's going to come up for Swift & MSIL as they are gearing up to change the image of volume maker to go premium as well. This might have come across, but just in case http://www.team-bhp.com/news/maruti-...ence-customers

Saw that news. Honestly, I would have wished for MSIL to invest 1000 crores in the cars for improving the quality and premium feel and not uniform, infrastructure for sales staff. Couldn't care less what he or she is wearing if the car itself is capable and well made.

[volkman10]

Swift facelift spied on roadtest. Speculated launch near. V trim, Chrome L-shaped garnish instead of DRL's




http://blog.gaadiwaadi.com/2014/10/f...on-begins.html

[anky]

V trim and still no rear wash wipe on the hatch door ! What is maruti thinking , we keep buying and they keep stinging on the features . After driving the alto for nine years and m800 for eight , I feel a rear wash wipe should be given on mid variants and up as in the rains (we have four months of rain in bombay) the hatch glass gets very muddy and dirty .

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by anky

I feel a rear wash wipe should be given on mid variants and up as in the rains (we have four months of rain in bombay) the hatch glass gets very muddy and dirty .

No. It should be made standard.

The positives are higher than the negatives. Driving around is peaceful and the driver gets a clear view.

Anurag.

[apurvapg]

Wow super excited. Can't wait to see it in person.

Hope the top end comes with disc brakes all round, which should ensure that this car finally gets the braking power it deserves.

Also MSIL should consider having better design of the alloys, something on the lines of what are on offer in the UK.

Besides these I still think nothing comes close to this car in terms of driving experience.

Apurva